Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 5)

Keep in mind that the 3-2-1 plan is a guideline.  I think it's an excellent plan to follow if you're a pure runner, or during the off season to do a run focus.  In regards to in season tri training for a specific event like a HIM, it does become more difficult to follow it to a T for the reasons you mentioned.  If you want to build up to a 14 mile long run for HIM training, then technically you would need to be running 40-45 mpw...which isn't realistic for most people.

I run 6x a week for the most part, and right now for HIM training my runs usually break down as 4, 4.5, 6, 4.5, 6, 13.5.  Doesn't exactly follow the 3-2-1 breakdown, but it would be too difficult for me to replace the 6 milers with 8-9 milers.

However, that doesn't take away from the part of the plan that indicates you don't need to, or shouldn't be increasing mileage each week.  And that you really don't need to incorporate speedwork until running your desired mileage becomes manageable for an extended period of time.

The reality is that 30-35 mpw is a lot for most people...especially those who split time swimming and biking.  The amount of time to safely work up to that distance is longer than most people think. 

If for some reason the long ride (for example 3hr ride) is not going to happen cause of XYZ... do I just do the 1.5hr weekend ride, with the prescribed intensity, that is included in the TR program that I am using?  Do you think that is the best way? Or if necessary, move my long ride day to Sunday and long run on Saturday, the ole switch-er-ooo?  So long low-mid intensity vs. medium length mid-high intensity?

For me, if the ole switch-er-ooo means I get both workouts in, that's what I'm doing.  If a 3 hour ride has to turn into a 1.5 hour ride, it will probably be at a higher intensity than the 3 hour ride would have been.

For general training, I don't think you can go wrong either way.  Fitness is gained by increasing training stress.  And training stress is a factor of time and intensity.  Up the intensity, and you don't need to ride as long to get the same training stress.

For HIM training though, there is a specific purpose for the long ride which helps us determine proper pacing and nutrition.  If you've already got that dialed in, then I don't see a real big problem with doing the TR instead.  If you feel that you still need to work on your long ride pacing and nutrition practice, then the switch a roo might be the better idea.  Of course is also depends on some other small factors like what you have planned on Friday and Monday...but to a lesser extent.

I'm actually doing a switch this weekend.  We have a 40k team time trial race on Sunday that our club is hosting, so I'm switching my long run to Saturday and will ride the course twice on Sunday (once unofficially before the race starts as I got permission...perks of helping out with the race, and once again with a team).  The total distance with warm up will put me at around 60ish miles, which is about 12 miles less than what I would have normally done for my training, but the added intensity will more than make up for the difference in mileage.

I won't be fresh or tapered, but I'm treating the first solo run like a race...so you know me...under an hour or bust. 

I don't think I've ever done a hard ride the day after a long run...so I'm not quite sure how my legs will respond, but my two rides this week were solid, and I think I've got a fairly decent shot.

I have a 5 mile race tomorrow afternoon so I plan to bike to the race to get a long (42 mile) ride and a brick workout. It's a local 5 mile so I was planning to use it for a training run, even if I wasn't able to bike to it. I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Steve

The time trial target and conversation has me wondering.

When training for HIM, or tri's in general, do you shoot for a specific sequence of workouts over a couple days?  By this I mean, do you try to run the day after a long/hard ride so your legs learn to run tired?  Or do you try for a few heavy leg days in a row to max stress (alternating run/bike) on the legs, and then recover with a swim day?

Or, do you try to run on fresh legs for key workouts to ensure you hit your targets, and same for the bike?

OR… do you just line up the workouts for each sport over the week and make them fit with the schedule, looking at recovery and stress from each sport individually across the week, rather than among them?

This is coming up for me a lot recently, as I go from run focused with some bike/swim to a more balanced approach (my 12 mile run this morning was tougher than normal as yesterday was a quick-ish 6 mile run in the morning and a harder - for me, at 237W - 70' ride in the afternoon, after 2 other days of running/riding).

SOOOO much easier to be a single sport person!

Thanks

Matt

AND GOOD LUCK ON THE TT - crack the hour!

Fairly light weekend here, after a biggish week.

OWS in Walden pond tomorrow - first of the year, and first ever at Walden.  Going to swim close to shore, as I'll be solo.  No set plan, probably just out and back for a mile or so.  Sunday is a 5k for me and Kim, and the 3 kids are doing the 1-miler.  It's the Great Bear Race in Needham, where we used to live, and is a total blast.  I'm going to ride home (plus some), so hope to get 5 miles running (warmup, race, kids' mile) and ~40 on the bike.

Hope you all have a great weekend!

Matt

As someone slowly getting up to HIM distance what is a good rule for increasing distance?  My longest ride is 22.5 miles (just because it was getting late and a nasty 25-30 mph wind had picked up. I wasn't real tired afterwards.

Do to my hamstring issue (from sunday) I decided not to do the long ride on tues and was planning on my long ride on Sunday. I was thinking of 28.5 mile ride. It is a two loop route so if I have to cut it short I could.  I have my swim planned for Saturday afternoon and run on Monday afternoon.

I am good at pushing myself, sometimes too hard and I want to make sure I do something that will slow down or stop my training but I don't want to be too easy either.

+1. All of the running injuries I've had as an adult have come either (1) when I incorporate track work before I have built a solid running base (sorry, not sure how to define what that would be for any particular person) or (2) (related to other posts in this thread) when I increase mileage too quickly. After learning the hard way on #2 last winter, I 've become somewhat conservative in increasing mileage--never more than 10% in a week, and no increases two weeks in a row. Since cutting back to less than 20mpw last December, I'm back over 30mpw without issue.