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 2013-06-20 1:48 PM in reply to: powerman |
Master  2167    Livonia, MI |  Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a diseaseOriginally posted by powerman So I take it you did not read the report and their reasons for calling it a disease? ... or the part I underlined about physical imbalances after the weight is lost? I did read it. My bet is that for the whopping, whopping majority of obese people, if we could just get them to form good habits that would make them not obese. That is not to say that they don't have a mental disorder that makes it harder for them to that than those who are not obese. I still call that an eating disorder. They call it eating disorder and not eating disease for a reason. I think that the percentage of people who would still be obese on 1500-1800 calories/day plus moderate exercise because there's something physiologically wrong with them is minute. |
| 2013-06-20 1:49 PM in reply to: pitt83 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by Aarondb4 I'll reply to those portions of your post where you are uninnformed and speculative about how drugs are discovered, developed and approved. Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by TheClaaaw Wow. Your paranoia is only exceeded by your ignorance of how drugs are discovered, apporved and possibly recalled or controlled. Originally posted by Aarondb4 Brilliant point, and I will be talking about this story with a podcaster this week. I am going to mention this possibility as one to watch.
The quote was getting a bit long, but to Kevin's point. According to what I heard on the radio yesterday, the FDA has approved only 2 weight loss drugs in the past few decades, and one was later recalled and involved in a class action suit.Partially correct: Phen-fen was once approved and recalled and has had a class action. 2 drugs have been approved this year with more currently in phaseIII I don't have a lot of experience with the FDA, I doperhaps the BT brain trust has someone in the know. But my fear is that now that the AMA has decided it is a disease the standards at the FDA will be loweredThis is not possible and the drug companies will be able to peddle many more weight loss drugs.Research into medically, scientifically proven, safe medecines is in progress; to call it "peddliing" is demeaning and uninformed. Of course only time will tell, but my suspicion is that we will see a large increase in the "weight loss drug" market in the next 5-10 years. Follow the money... Again, borne from ignorance of how drugs are dicovered, approved and later used And as usual your lack of ability to engage in a discussion with logic and fact is only exceeded by your pathetic need to resort to personal attacks. See, I can do it too. 1. How many weight loss drugs have been approved in the last 30 years? I heard 2-3. You say there are 2 just this year alone and more in phase III. I would say that sounds like a very large increase. 2. You said it is not possible for standards to be lowered. A quick google search shows this. http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/byaudience/forpatientadvocates/speedingaccesstoimportantnewtherapies/ucm128291.htm Three different provisions to speed up the process of a drug going to market if it is for a "disease". I am of course speculating but from the sounds of this article these provisions are not available for a drug that does not treat a serious disease, so obviously the AMA saying obesity is now a disease should make it easier for weight loss drugs to use these speedy provisions. There have to be some different standards if the process is going to be sped up. The article even talks about not waiting for "clinical outcome" tests as they can take too long. That is a lessening of standards in my interpretation. Either way this new classification opens new doors to get pills to people quicker. 3. I would expect a drug rep to defend the drug company's practices, methods and processes. We most likely won't agree on anything here. |
| 2013-06-20 1:57 PM in reply to: powerman |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Kido, did you even look at the link for the report? Do you know how the AMA classifies diseases? Do you know what criteria are needed for a classification of disease? What did the AMA get wrong? Can't I simply disagree with what they call it? I'm not sure how me not considering it a "disease" is an insult or belitteling the severity of the issue. I repeatedly said over and over that it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. But yet, me saying it's not a disease is somehow taken as an insult? The AMA can call it whatever they want. I doesn't matter to me one bit as long as the issue get's the attention it needs to get resolved. In my own house, and in my own mind, I don't consider it a disease. I'm not sure how that minimalizes or dismisses this epedimic one bit. Call it the "worst thing to ever happen to the human race since the ice age". Great. If that get's people working on the issue, awesome. Ok, I'll conceed and change my perception of the meaning of the word "disease". It IS a disease. I'm convinced. What has changed now that I have accepted that? Wait, nothing. It's still a big problem that needs attention and has serious impacts to our society. Call it additcion or disease shouldn't change how we look at it, which is a problem facing us that needs addressing and should't be dismissed. |
| 2013-06-20 2:00 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman So I take it you did not read the report and their reasons for calling it a disease? ... or the part I underlined about physical imbalances after the weight is lost? I did read it. My bet is that for the whopping, whopping majority of obese people, if we could just get them to form good habits that would make them not obese. That is not to say that they don't have a mental disorder that makes it harder for them to that than those who are not obese. I still call that an eating disorder. They call it eating disorder and not eating disease for a reason. I think that the percentage of people who would still be obese on 1500-1800 calories/day plus moderate exercise because there's something physiologically wrong with them is minute. Well then, I guess that's it then. We will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see the harm. For the exact same reason I do not see the harm alcoholism was classified as a disease 80 years ago. Nobody is let off the hook. Big drug pharma has not done much to "fix" them with a pill... of course they have tried. Just one more excerpt... Whereas, The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes... H-90.974 Our AMA opposes the effort to make obesity a disability. (Res. 412, A-09) Edited by powerman 2013-06-20 2:02 PM |
| 2013-06-20 2:06 PM in reply to: powerman |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman So I take it you did not read the report and their reasons for calling it a disease? ... or the part I underlined about physical imbalances after the weight is lost? I did read it. My bet is that for the whopping, whopping majority of obese people, if we could just get them to form good habits that would make them not obese. That is not to say that they don't have a mental disorder that makes it harder for them to that than those who are not obese. I still call that an eating disorder. They call it eating disorder and not eating disease for a reason. I think that the percentage of people who would still be obese on 1500-1800 calories/day plus moderate exercise because there's something physiologically wrong with them is minute. Well then, I guess that's it then. We will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see the harm. For the exact same reason I do not see the harm alcoholism was classified as a disease 80 years ago. Nobody is let off the hook. Big drug pharma has not done much to "fix" them with a pill... of course they have tried. Just one more excerpt... Whereas, The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes... H-90.974 Our AMA opposes the effort to make obesity a disability. (Res. 412, A-09) But that is so silly to me. If a smoker gets lung disease and quits smoking that isn't going to make the cancer go away. If an obese person changes his/her lifestyle to moderate calories and moderate exercise, in almost all cases, it WILL make the obesity go away. |
| 2013-06-20 2:06 PM in reply to: Kido |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Question. Are we perhaps mixing morbidly obese with obese? According to BMI and a couple other measurements. I'm borderline obese now. I don't look it, but 6'7" and 245 lbs puts me in that catagory. I DON'T have a disease. It's me eating like crap, drinking beer, a small knee injury, and not tri training in the off season that made me put on 15 lbs and put me over the limit. Last year it was getting my thyroid out and messing up my motabilism that put on 20 lbs that took all summer to shed after getting balanced. I would think a majority of people that are "obese" or "borderline obese" like me have no mental, physical, or emmotional problems that cause it. For those that are morbidly obese? Yes, I would say there is SOMETHING there, call it a disease or addiction, that makes it a much bigger issue with them. |
| 2013-06-20 2:10 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by powerman Kido, did you even look at the link for the report? Do you know how the AMA classifies diseases? Do you know what criteria are needed for a classification of disease? What did the AMA get wrong? Can't I simply disagree with what they call it? Why? I'm not sure how me not considering it a "disease" is an insult or belitteling the severity of the issue. I repeatedly said over and over that it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Where did I say that? But yet, me saying it's not a disease is somehow taken as an insult? The AMA can call it whatever they want. I doesn't matter to me one bit as long as the issue get's the attention it needs to get resolved. In my own house, and in my own mind, I don't consider it a disease. I'm not sure how that minimalizes or dismisses this epedimic one bit. Call it the "worst thing to ever happen to the human race since the ice age". Great. If that get's people working on the issue, awesome. I never said it did. Ok, I'll conceed and change my perception of the meaning of the word "disease". It IS a disease. I'm convinced. What has changed now that I have accepted that? Wait, nothing. It's still a big problem that needs attention and has serious impacts to our society. Ummmm... really? Call it additcion or disease shouldn't change how we look at it, which is a problem facing us that needs addressing and should't be dismissed. I think it does actually change how the AMA addresses it and what they do about it. I did not read anything in the report that now invalidates anyone else doing anything about it. The AMA classified it as a disease... why, because it met the criteria to be called such... not because your opinion, not because what you "feel" it should be... because it met criteria lined out to classify diseases... all of them... it's kind of what they do. By classifying it as a disease, they take action to address it. The report lined out exactly what those actions are going to be... to address a problem, with all the means they have at their disposal... isn't that what you want? My whole point is... based on their CRITERIA, what do you disagree with? What point is wrong? It's simple science. If you do not agree that the Earth revolves around the Sun, then point out what is wrong with the finding that says it does. If all you want to do is say... "well I don't think it does"... that's fine, you are welcome to your opinion, but it is not based on fact or reason. I thought you were a fact and reason guy. Edited by powerman 2013-06-20 2:11 PM |
| 2013-06-20 2:19 PM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by noelle1230 But that is so silly to me. If a smoker gets lung disease and quits smoking that isn't going to make the cancer go away. If an obese person changes his/her lifestyle to moderate calories and moderate exercise, in almost all cases, it WILL make the obesity go away. But that is what they are saying, even when the fat is gone, there are physical imbalances still present in many systems. They lined out what systems are effected with the disease of "obesity". That there are indeed physical problems... and they acknowledged the mental aspects. They acknowledged the need for a multi facet approach to a multi facet disease... but by naming it a disease, they are acknowledging the physical problems associated with it. Is it not important to fully understand the problem to be able to address it effectively? |
| 2013-06-20 2:20 PM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 1234 West Michigan | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by TriMike I've been a vocal part of obesity threads in the past, I've read all the posts in this thread and I still feel the same way I've always felt. That is, people want to blame something or someone for why they themselves are in a situation (obese, alcoholic, gambling problems etc.) or why others are in a situation. Our country has slipped into a culture of "I want" and "I need" and there's very little personal responsibility out there... Regardless of why millions of Americans are obese, the fact is they lack the ability to climb out...That to me is the point that's lost in this debate because everyone wants to explain or validate the WHY (it's a disease, it's a symptom, it's laziness it's you name it)....Not the WAY OUT... You, being on the other side of the street, only see one thing... the blame (which there is truth there). What you do not see is the millions on the other side of the fence that actually do focus on the WAY OUT. It's not your fault, you do not need to. But millions work on the way out every day. I think indeed that is the part that is worst about this... but that is not the point of discussing the finding. People throw their lives away every single day. Suicide, addiction, criminality, obesity. They will all die as a result of their actions. Great, glad they got what they deserve right? Usually they are condemned for their selfishness... or perhaps they were just sicker than others, and their disease was just as fatal as cancer. But millions work really hard at turning their life around every day. Millions dig themselves out of a hole they made for themselves. Not only do they have to deal with the damage they themselves did, but they also have to deal with what got them there in the first place which "normal" people do not have to deal with. I love a fighter, and I applaud anyone that can recognize they are not where they want to be in life and do something different no matter what the subject. But that usually goes unnoticed. But just because you yourself (general sense) has not had to walk in those shoes, do not think others are not doing it. It's interesting your use of the word blame towards my comments yet are one of the most ardent defenders of defining obesity as a disease when really we're all really arguing symantics... If it truly were a disease the whole world would have it, it wouldn't be just a first world problem... I don't need to walk in others' shoes to appreciate what they go through but I witness the lack of discipline on a daily basis and it makes me sick... This is a common one in my office, which seems to have a food day every other week. One of my overweight colleagues will grab a sugary bad for you item and with a little devilish smile say to me: "I'll start my diet back up tomorrow, these little treats need to get eaten today." Then they'll notice I do not take one and they'll say: "don't you work out so much so you can eat these? You CAN eat them and DON'T... I don't understand." Am I not able to comment on the lack of discipline in the example above because I haven't been obese and therefore walked a mile in their shoes and don't know what they're up against? Please... |
| 2013-06-20 2:21 PM in reply to: powerman |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by powerman Kido, did you even look at the link for the report? Do you know how the AMA classifies diseases? Do you know what criteria are needed for a classification of disease? What did the AMA get wrong? Can't I simply disagree with what they call it? Why? I'm not sure how me not considering it a "disease" is an insult or belitteling the severity of the issue. I repeatedly said over and over that it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Where did I say that? But yet, me saying it's not a disease is somehow taken as an insult? The AMA can call it whatever they want. I doesn't matter to me one bit as long as the issue get's the attention it needs to get resolved. In my own house, and in my own mind, I don't consider it a disease. I'm not sure how that minimalizes or dismisses this epedimic one bit. Call it the "worst thing to ever happen to the human race since the ice age". Great. If that get's people working on the issue, awesome. I never said it did. Ok, I'll conceed and change my perception of the meaning of the word "disease". It IS a disease. I'm convinced. What has changed now that I have accepted that? Wait, nothing. It's still a big problem that needs attention and has serious impacts to our society. Ummmm... really? Call it additcion or disease shouldn't change how we look at it, which is a problem facing us that needs addressing and should't be dismissed. I think it does actually change how the AMA addresses it and what they do about it. I did not read anything in the report that now invalidates anyone else doing anything about it. The AMA classified it as a disease... why, because it met the criteria to be called such... not because your opinion, not because what you "feel" it should be... because it met criteria lined out to classify diseases... all of them... it's kind of what they do. By classifying it as a disease, they take action to address it. The report lined out exactly what those actions are going to be... to address a problem, with all the means they have at their disposal... isn't that what you want? My whole point is... based on their CRITERIA, what do you disagree with? What point is wrong? It's simple science. If you do not agree that the Earth revolves around the Sun, then point out what is wrong with the finding that says it does. If all you want to do is say... "well I don't think it does"... that's fine, you are welcome to your opinion, but it is not based on fact or reason. I thought you were a fact and reason guy. Ah, since I don't agree my opion is not based on fact or reason. I have to agree to be a fact and reason guy... I never attacked you or your opinion. Just disgreed with the classification. If you want to imply I'm unreasonable because I don't agree. No point to continue the sharing of questions or thoughts... You win the thread war. I give. It's a disease.. Yay.
Bottom line, my complete unfactual and unreasonable opinion is, that as a nation we need to address the obesity problem. I'll start with myself, and teaching my kids (if I ever have them). |
| 2013-06-20 2:24 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Aarondb4 Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by Aarondb4 I'll reply to those portions of your post where you are uninnformed and speculative about how drugs are discovered, developed and approved. Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by TheClaaaw Wow. Your paranoia is only exceeded by your ignorance of how drugs are discovered, apporved and possibly recalled or controlled. Originally posted by Aarondb4 Brilliant point, and I will be talking about this story with a podcaster this week. I am going to mention this possibility as one to watch.
The quote was getting a bit long, but to Kevin's point. According to what I heard on the radio yesterday, the FDA has approved only 2 weight loss drugs in the past few decades, and one was later recalled and involved in a class action suit.Partially correct: Phen-fen was once approved and recalled and has had a class action. 2 drugs have been approved this year with more currently in phaseIII I don't have a lot of experience with the FDA, I doperhaps the BT brain trust has someone in the know. But my fear is that now that the AMA has decided it is a disease the standards at the FDA will be loweredThis is not possible and the drug companies will be able to peddle many more weight loss drugs.Research into medically, scientifically proven, safe medecines is in progress; to call it "peddliing" is demeaning and uninformed. Of course only time will tell, but my suspicion is that we will see a large increase in the "weight loss drug" market in the next 5-10 years. Follow the money... Again, borne from ignorance of how drugs are dicovered, approved and later used And as usual your lack of ability to engage in a discussion with logic and fact is only exceeded by your pathetic need to resort to personal attacks. See, I can do it too. 1. How many weight loss drugs have been approved in the last 30 years? I heard 2-3. You say there are 2 just this year alone and more in phase III. I would say that sounds like a very large increase. 2. You said it is not possible for standards to be lowered. A quick google search shows this. http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/byaudience/forpatientadvocates/speedingaccesstoimportantnewtherapies/ucm128291.htm Three different provisions to speed up the process of a drug going to market if it is for a "disease". I am of course speculating but from the sounds of this article these provisions are not available for a drug that does not treat a serious disease, so obviously the AMA saying obesity is now a disease should make it easier for weight loss drugs to use these speedy provisions. There have to be some different standards if the process is going to be sped up. The article even talks about not waiting for "clinical outcome" tests as they can take too long. That is a lessening of standards in my interpretation. Either way this new classification opens new doors to get pills to people quicker. 3. I would expect a drug rep to defend the drug company's practices, methods and processes. We most likely won't agree on anything here. To your points: 1.) The standards for weight loss drugs are FAR higher now than when Phen-fen was approved because of the liabilitys and heart valve thickening it caused. The reason 2 have been approved and trials are more numerous is because of theability to treat a previously un-treated condition (as others say "make money"). The fact that drugs are profitable makes them possible. The standard which these approvals have been subject to is unprescedented; the FDA wanted to reject them, but couldn't find a good reason to reject them as they're safe and somewhat effective. We're talking 5% weight loss over 6 months due to drug alone. 2.) That's right; standards for approval are flexible due to the severity of the disease treated and the promise of your clinical data. meaning, if someone came forth with a drug to unequivably CURE a likely death sentence like pancreatic cancer; that would be fast tracked. 3.) I am not a rep, but a biochemistry researcher who has spent the past 25 years working on endocrine disorders and researching the signals which turn on and off hunger versus satiation. I'm defending the scientific rationale for a biochemical root of obesity. Ironically; you can easily show weight loss in models. But the side effect is typically elevation of blood pressure meaning there's no way the pathway you're using to control weight loss is safe to bring to humans; espiecially obese ones who typically have cardiac trouble. Edited by pitt83 2013-06-20 2:38 PM |
| 2013-06-20 2:26 PM in reply to: powerman |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by noelle1230 But that is so silly to me. If a smoker gets lung disease and quits smoking that isn't going to make the cancer go away. If an obese person changes his/her lifestyle to moderate calories and moderate exercise, in almost all cases, it WILL make the obesity go away. But that is what they are saying, even when the fat is gone, there are physical imbalances still present in many systems. They lined out what systems are effected with the disease of "obesity". That there are indeed physical problems... and they acknowledged the mental aspects. They acknowledged the need for a multi facet approach to a multi facet disease... but by naming it a disease, they are acknowledging the physical problems associated with it. Is it not important to fully understand the problem to be able to address it effectively? Great, so treat those problems or physical imbalances. Once one is no longer obese, obesity is not the problem. If they have done damage let's just say for example to their liver, then treat the liver disorder. If they've screwed their hormones, treat the hormonal disorder. If they given themselves heart disease or diabetes, treat those diseases. How is calling obesity a disease going to change how a doctors have already been treating these things like heart disease, liver disorders, diabetes, etc.? I'll say it again. The obesity in and of itself, by itself is a symptom. Treat the disorder or disease behind the symptom instead of trying to label the symptom the disease. Otherwise the underlying disorder/disease, no matter if it's physical like a hormonal imbalance or mental like an eating disorder gets swept under the rug. That has been my point all along. |
| 2013-06-20 2:33 PM in reply to: powerman |
Master 2500 Crab Cake City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease This is a very interesting thread for sure. I am not sure what I think about this whole debate but I'll play along. About 3 years ago I was obese, now I am not. I knew that I was overweight but I was too lazy to change to be honest. It was much easier to eat poor and sit in front of the tv all day then to workout and prepare meals. At times, I definately gained some type of comfort out of the food I was eating. Something changed though when I started to lose weight and exercise. I call it my "seeing the light moment" and it was just a real gut check statement from a loved one who basically said "You are fat and need to lose some weight" and all along I knew they were right. After that moment, my life changed. I lost all my weight through diet and exercise and have not gained a pound back yet and don't plan on it ever again. A ton of people on this forum live a healthy and active lifestyle. I would venture to say that endurance sports is more a lifestyle choice then a sport because of the discipline and training usually required to participate safely. Before changing my lifestyle, my work hours were different, I would often eat out alot because eating in our society tends to be a very social thing and you don't want to be the one to turn down an evening out with friends or a lunch with people from work and cooking and cleaning is a huge PITA. Also, I was pretty uninformed and uneducated about nutrition in my previous lifestyle and when you are uneducated about something, you don't necessarily realize how bad something is for you. I guess I am saying that I understand that depending on someone's home life, work life, upbringing, education, location, etc. I can see how you can unintentionally become obese and before you know it, the problem is bigger then you anticipated and harder to fix. Now on the other side, I am one of those people who went from obese to not through mindful decision making, changing my habits and making the decision to get control of my life. I made myself obese, nobody else did so it was up to me to make myself not obese. I never felt that I was addicted to food or couldn't control my eating, I always made clear, conscious choices (except when drunk lol) when eating food. I never tried diet pills or fad diets because I knew they wouldn't work. I can easily see how people in today's society are all about "I need this" or "this isnt my fault and I can't do anything about it" and sometimes I feel that they are just using excuses because IMO- If I can do it, so can you. An example is I have two family friends who were obese and married. Both of them got the gastric bypass surgery because they said that they have tried everything to lose weight and nothing helped. Well from knowing them I know that neither of them worked out, never changed eating habits, never even tried. They wanted to take the easy way out and they got it. Unfortunately for them, their habits havent changed and they are slowly gaining weight back despite having the surgery. I see both sides of the argument and I guess I would say that every situation and person is different. I would not classify obesity as a disease though. Regardless of genetic disposition, you can make clear decisions about your life when you are an adult. It really boils down to the want and the ability to change and having the knowhow and resources to do it. If any of you watch the biggest loser, one of the trainers (dolvett) has a little saying "Everyone has a workout plan but not everyone has an eating plan". And for everyone commenting on this thread, if you haven't seen the documentary series "THE WEIGHT OF THE NATION" on HBO I highly, highly recommend watching it. The series breaks down the obesity epidemic in America and discusses all types of things from socio-economic status, schools, public health, pharma industry, etc. |
| 2013-06-20 2:36 PM in reply to: dmbfan4life20 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by dmbfan4life20 This is a very interesting thread for sure. I am not sure what I think about this whole debate but I'll play along. About 3 years ago I was obese, now I am not. I knew that I was overweight but I was too lazy to change to be honest. It was much easier to eat poor and sit in front of the tv all day then to workout and prepare meals. At times, I definately gained some type of comfort out of the food I was eating. Something changed though when I started to lose weight and exercise. I call it my "seeing the light moment" and it was just a real gut check statement from a loved one who basically said "You are fat and need to lose some weight" and all along I knew they were right. After that moment, my life changed. I lost all my weight through diet and exercise and have not gained a pound back yet and don't plan on it ever again. A ton of people on this forum live a healthy and active lifestyle. I would venture to say that endurance sports is more a lifestyle choice then a sport because of the discipline and training usually required to participate safely. Before changing my lifestyle, my work hours were different, I would often eat out alot because eating in our society tends to be a very social thing and you don't want to be the one to turn down an evening out with friends or a lunch with people from work and cooking and cleaning is a huge PITA. Also, I was pretty uninformed and uneducated about nutrition in my previous lifestyle and when you are uneducated about something, you don't necessarily realize how bad something is for you. I guess I am saying that I understand that depending on someone's home life, work life, upbringing, education, location, etc. I can see how you can unintentionally become obese and before you know it, the problem is bigger then you anticipated and harder to fix. Now on the other side, I am one of those people who went from obese to not through mindful decision making, changing my habits and making the decision to get control of my life. I made myself obese, nobody else did so it was up to me to make myself not obese. I never felt that I was addicted to food or couldn't control my eating, I always made clear, conscious choices (except when drunk lol) when eating food. I never tried diet pills or fad diets because I knew they wouldn't work. I can easily see how people in today's society are all about "I need this" or "this isnt my fault and I can't do anything about it" and sometimes I feel that they are just using excuses because IMO- If I can do it, so can you. An example is I have two family friends who were obese and married. Both of them got the gastric bypass surgery because they said that they have tried everything to lose weight and nothing helped. Well from knowing them I know that neither of them worked out, never changed eating habits, never even tried. They wanted to take the easy way out and they got it. Unfortunately for them, their habits havent changed and they are slowly gaining weight back despite having the surgery. I see both sides of the argument and I guess I would say that every situation and person is different. I would not classify obesity as a disease though. Regardless of genetic disposition, you can make clear decisions about your life when you are an adult. It really boils down to the want and the ability to change and having the knowhow and resources to do it. If any of you watch the biggest loser, one of the trainers (dolvett) has a little saying "Everyone has a workout plan but not everyone has an eating plan". And for everyone commenting on this thread, if you haven't seen the documentary series "THE WEIGHT OF THE NATION" on HBO I highly, highly recommend watching it. The series breaks down the obesity epidemic in America and discusses all types of things from socio-economic status, schools, public health, pharma industry, etc. Nice post. Good job on the work you've put in. If only you could bottle the "seeing the light" moment as you call it and sell THAT to obese America......... |
| 2013-06-20 2:41 PM in reply to: TriMike |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by It's interesting your use of the word blame towards my comments yet are one of the most ardent defenders of defining obesity as a disease when really we're all really arguing symantics... If it truly were a disease the whole world would have it, it wouldn't be just a first world problem... I don't need to walk in others' shoes to appreciate what they go through but I witness the lack of discipline on a daily basis and it makes me sick... This is a common one in my office, which seems to have a food day every other week. One of my overweight colleagues will grab a sugary bad for you item and with a little devilish smile say to me: "I'll start my diet back up tomorrow, these little treats need to get eaten today." Then they'll notice I do not take one and they'll say: "don't you work out so much so you can eat these? You CAN eat them and DON'T... I don't understand." Am I not able to comment on the lack of discipline in the example above because I haven't been obese and therefore walked a mile in their shoes and don't know what they're up against? Please... I am not actually an ardent defender of the finding... I am actually shocked at the intensity of the dismissal of the finding by many. I really do not get it. It's a problem, an organization is trying to fix it. You are not fat, what do you care? As far as walking a mile in their shoes... I did say general you, not you specifically... but the other side of that is the guy in your office knows he is a fat $%^#$, he sees how you look at him, he tries to make a joke about what he does... then you all go home... you do not have one single idea what he does or does not do after work to work on his problem. What he has or has not done in his life. You just don't... yet you think you got him all figured out because he can't say no to junk food sitting in the office. Have you ever asked him to go for a walk at lunch? Have you ever offered your help to see what you can do for him? Or is judgment as far as your relationship goes?
I suppose I need to call it quits. There are many "lifestyle" diseases... but because there is a personal choice somewhere in there... many just say screw'em. I wish I knew what it was like to be perfect and never make a bad decision. In order to fix a problem, it needs to be understood. There are many other factors involved besides JUST the choices one makes. I just find it shocking that all the folks most against this are skinny people. The ones that do not know or understand it. |
| 2013-06-20 3:04 PM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 1234 West Michigan | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by It's interesting your use of the word blame towards my comments yet are one of the most ardent defenders of defining obesity as a disease when really we're all really arguing symantics... If it truly were a disease the whole world would have it, it wouldn't be just a first world problem... I don't need to walk in others' shoes to appreciate what they go through but I witness the lack of discipline on a daily basis and it makes me sick... This is a common one in my office, which seems to have a food day every other week. One of my overweight colleagues will grab a sugary bad for you item and with a little devilish smile say to me: "I'll start my diet back up tomorrow, these little treats need to get eaten today." Then they'll notice I do not take one and they'll say: "don't you work out so much so you can eat these? You CAN eat them and DON'T... I don't understand." Am I not able to comment on the lack of discipline in the example above because I haven't been obese and therefore walked a mile in their shoes and don't know what they're up against? Please... I am not actually an ardent defender of the finding... I am actually shocked at the intensity of the dismissal of the finding by many. I really do not get it. It's a problem, an organization is trying to fix it. You are not fat, what do you care? As far as walking a mile in their shoes... I did say general you, not you specifically... but the other side of that is the guy in your office knows he is a fat $%^#$, he sees how you look at him, he tries to make a joke about what he does... then you all go home... you do not have one single idea what he does or does not do after work to work on his problem. What he has or has not done in his life. You just don't... yet you think you got him all figured out because he can't say no to junk food sitting in the office. Have you ever asked him to go for a walk at lunch? Have you ever offered your help to see what you can do for him? Or is judgment as far as your relationship goes? I suppose I need to call it quits. There are many "lifestyle" diseases... but because there is a personal choice somewhere in there... many just say screw'em. I wish I knew what it was like to be perfect and never make a bad decision. In order to fix a problem, it needs to be understood. There are many other factors involved besides JUST the choices one makes. I just find it shocking that all the folks most against this are skinny people. The ones that do not know or understand it. Talk about making assumptions, you hit a grand slam with assumptions right there. I didn't give "looks" of judgement in the scenario I painted earlier. I was explaining what I encounter regularly.... You also assume these are total strangers I'm referring to. That too is incorrect because over time in an office setting you get to know people quite well... And the people I'm referring to in my scenario aren't home sweating on the treadmill, stair-stepper (insert any workout here), trust me on that... You sound more and more like an enabler...You make many posts defending a position on something being a disease vs. a symptom vs. lazyness etc. yet give no ground to the posts talking about internal fortitude and ownership over the problem. Several have even posted their success stories and state they don't think it's a disease yet you continue to disagree. Why don't you while on your high horse tell them their assumptions are wrong? Maybe the problem is you're someone who thinks the government is always right so if they in their infinite wisdom say obesity is a disease then hooray, we have another disease on the books... As I believe Kido said earlier, if I agree with you and use the word "disease" to describe obesity, now what? Crickets..... |
| 2013-06-20 3:06 PM in reply to: pitt83 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by Aarondb4 To your points: 1.) The standards for weight loss drugs are FAR higher now than when Phen-fen was approved because of the liabilitys and heart valve thickening it caused. The reason 2 have been approved and trials are more numerous is because of theability to treat a previously un-treated condition (as others say "make money"). The fact that drugs are profitable makes them possible. The standard which these approvals have been subject to is unprescedented; the FDA wanted to reject them, but couldn't find a good reason to reject them as they're safe and somewhat effective. We're talking 5% weight loss over 6 months due to drug alone. 2.) That's right; standards for approval are flexible due to the severity of the disease treated and the promise of your clinical data. meaning, if someone came forth with a drug to unequivably CURE a likely death sentence like pancreatic cancer; that would be fast tracked. 3.) I am not a rep, but a biochemistry researcher who has spent the past 25 years working on endocrine disorders and researching the signals which turn on and off hunger versus satiation. I'm defending the scientific rationale for a biochemical root of obesity. Ironically; you can easily show weight loss in models. But the side effect is typically elevation of blood pressure meaning there's no way the pathway you're using to control weight loss is safe to bring to humans; espiecially obese ones who typically have cardiac trouble. Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by Aarondb4 I'll reply to those portions of your post where you are uninnformed and speculative about how drugs are discovered, developed and approved. Originally posted by pitt83 Originally posted by TheClaaaw Wow. Your paranoia is only exceeded by your ignorance of how drugs are discovered, apporved and possibly recalled or controlled. Originally posted by Aarondb4 Brilliant point, and I will be talking about this story with a podcaster this week. I am going to mention this possibility as one to watch.
The quote was getting a bit long, but to Kevin's point. According to what I heard on the radio yesterday, the FDA has approved only 2 weight loss drugs in the past few decades, and one was later recalled and involved in a class action suit.Partially correct: Phen-fen was once approved and recalled and has had a class action. 2 drugs have been approved this year with more currently in phaseIII I don't have a lot of experience with the FDA, I doperhaps the BT brain trust has someone in the know. But my fear is that now that the AMA has decided it is a disease the standards at the FDA will be loweredThis is not possible and the drug companies will be able to peddle many more weight loss drugs.Research into medically, scientifically proven, safe medecines is in progress; to call it "peddliing" is demeaning and uninformed. Of course only time will tell, but my suspicion is that we will see a large increase in the "weight loss drug" market in the next 5-10 years. Follow the money... Again, borne from ignorance of how drugs are dicovered, approved and later used And as usual your lack of ability to engage in a discussion with logic and fact is only exceeded by your pathetic need to resort to personal attacks. See, I can do it too. 1. How many weight loss drugs have been approved in the last 30 years? I heard 2-3. You say there are 2 just this year alone and more in phase III. I would say that sounds like a very large increase. 2. You said it is not possible for standards to be lowered. A quick google search shows this. http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/byaudience/forpatientadvocates/speedingaccesstoimportantnewtherapies/ucm128291.htm Three different provisions to speed up the process of a drug going to market if it is for a "disease". I am of course speculating but from the sounds of this article these provisions are not available for a drug that does not treat a serious disease, so obviously the AMA saying obesity is now a disease should make it easier for weight loss drugs to use these speedy provisions. There have to be some different standards if the process is going to be sped up. The article even talks about not waiting for "clinical outcome" tests as they can take too long. That is a lessening of standards in my interpretation. Either way this new classification opens new doors to get pills to people quicker. 3. I would expect a drug rep to defend the drug company's practices, methods and processes. We most likely won't agree on anything here. Awesome. Thanks for the information, I do appreciate it. Should be interesting to see where things go with this new classification both in the drug realm and the health insurance realm. |
| 2013-06-20 3:08 PM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by noelle1230 But that is so silly to me. If a smoker gets lung disease and quits smoking that isn't going to make the cancer go away. If an obese person changes his/her lifestyle to moderate calories and moderate exercise, in almost all cases, it WILL make the obesity go away. But that is what they are saying, even when the fat is gone, there are physical imbalances still present in many systems. They lined out what systems are effected with the disease of "obesity". That there are indeed physical problems... and they acknowledged the mental aspects. They acknowledged the need for a multi facet approach to a multi facet disease... but by naming it a disease, they are acknowledging the physical problems associated with it. Is it not important to fully understand the problem to be able to address it effectively? Great, so treat those problems or physical imbalances. Once one is no longer obese, obesity is not the problem. If they have done damage let's just say for example to their liver, then treat the liver disorder. If they've screwed their hormones, treat the hormonal disorder. If they given themselves heart disease or diabetes, treat those diseases. How is calling obesity a disease going to change how a doctors have already been treating these things like heart disease, liver disorders, diabetes, etc.? I'll say it again. The obesity in and of itself, by itself is a symptom. Treat the disorder or disease behind the symptom instead of trying to label the symptom the disease. Otherwise the underlying disorder/disease, no matter if it's physical like a hormonal imbalance or mental like an eating disorder gets swept under the rug. That has been my point all along. We are at an empass. And I do get what you are saying. The fat is a symptom, but the word obese does define a condition. Lung cancer is not called smoking. So we say it, and we know what it means. I do not know what else to call it. I mean if there is a disease that causes obesity... then what do we call it. Seems you are more upset with the word, but I do understand you are upset with the label being only a symptom. I guess the only solution would be to come up with something different to name it that causes the symptom. I am guessing that they are saying the symptom actually causes conditions which is the disease... but I do not know. In the big picture, I d not think the ruling changes anything fundamentally. That they are addressing a problem which exists, and that is a good thing. But I understand the confusion it cause with terminology. |
| 2013-06-20 3:48 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by TriMike Talk about making assumptions, you hit a grand slam with assumptions right there. I didn't give "looks" of judgement in the scenario I painted earlier. I was explaining what I encounter regularly.... You also assume these are total strangers I'm referring to. That too is incorrect because over time in an office setting you get to know people quite well... And the people I'm referring to in my scenario aren't home sweating on the treadmill, stair-stepper (insert any workout here), trust me on that... You sound more and more like an enabler...You make many posts defending a position on something being a disease vs. a symptom vs. lazyness etc. yet give no ground to the posts talking about internal fortitude and ownership over the problem. Several have even posted their success stories and state they don't think it's a disease yet you continue to disagree. Why don't you while on your high horse tell them their assumptions are wrong? Maybe the problem is you're someone who thinks the government is always right so if they in their infinite wisdom say obesity is a disease then hooray, we have another disease on the books... As I believe Kido said earlier, if I agree with you and use the word "disease" to describe obesity, now what? Crickets..... Good Lord. Have you ever held a gun to your head and decide to pull the trigger? Here's the deal... there was a time I was staring down the barrel and all I had to do to make it all go away was pull the trigger. I ended up there all by my own doing. I failed to get control of my problem. When I finally decided to pull... I could not do it. I wish I could say I changed my life because it was the right thing to do. I wish I could tell you how I pulled myself up from my boot straps and took charge... I didn't. I did it because I had no other choice, and a lot of folks helped. What I can tell you is the reason I got where I got is not one bit different today, which is not one bit different than the day I was born. My brain is not wired right, and I continuously work at keeping it in check. My sibling is obese. Has been for a very long time. Most people are shocked to find out she is my sister. My whole life I have been able to watch how she is treated... mostly because nobody assumed I was related. How they judge and condemn her. I have friends that do it to other obese people we don't know. To "assume" that you would act in a stereo typical way to your obese coworker is not that hard to do. The thing about stereotypes is that they get there by being mostly true. If you treat your co-worked with love and respect, and hold your judgments... unlike your first post, bravo to you. You just rocketed to the top 20% of all people. My sibling is in fact pretty lazy. I'm not. I have never figured that out. I know more so than others that she is where she is by her own hand, and that to get out of the problem she has to work. The only way I got out of my hole was to take responsibility for my situation, and work to change it. The only thing that stands in the way of going back is me. It hurts me to see my sibling in her situation, and know it does not have to be that way, but I have done all I can do. My mother has type 2 diabetes. She will be the first to tell you it is all her fault. It hurts me to watch her wither away. I know that it will kill her, and that it has robbed her of quality time. But who cares, she is just a POS. My "problem" ended over 12 years ago, yet I am not one bit different than I was 13 years ago. It is my responsibility alone to continue that. If they found a magic pill... it would not change one single thing for me. If they found the gene that is responsible, it would not change one thing. If they found the root cause... nothing. And the fact it has a name and is classified as a disease makes not one bit of difference to my life. But what I also know is that with all the research that has gone into it, that I have a whole host of places to go for help. I have a medical and psychiatric community that understands and can do a lot to help. I just have to want it. It's a pretty good thing. So shoot me... I'm a little sensitive to problems people have where behavior is a component. No where in this thread have I ever excused personal behavior. If your answer to the first question is "yes", then brother, I'm glad you didn't do it. If it ever will be yes, just know that there is so much help available to you that can change it. I will help. If you could never understand saying yes, then you just don't get it. No problem, I do not get being pregnant. I'm not wired for it. Oh... and the AMA is not the government.. yet it has declared it a disease... so now what? Has your world ended? Did everyone go out and kill themselves eating ice cream? Exactly what difference does it make in your life? Same crickets... Edited by powerman 2013-06-20 3:59 PM |
| 2013-06-20 3:49 PM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease If obesity is a disease, does that mean stupidity is a disease? |
| 2013-06-20 4:14 PM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 1234 West Michigan | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by TriMike Talk about making assumptions, you hit a grand slam with assumptions right there. I didn't give "looks" of judgement in the scenario I painted earlier. I was explaining what I encounter regularly.... You also assume these are total strangers I'm referring to. That too is incorrect because over time in an office setting you get to know people quite well... And the people I'm referring to in my scenario aren't home sweating on the treadmill, stair-stepper (insert any workout here), trust me on that... You sound more and more like an enabler...You make many posts defending a position on something being a disease vs. a symptom vs. lazyness etc. yet give no ground to the posts talking about internal fortitude and ownership over the problem. Several have even posted their success stories and state they don't think it's a disease yet you continue to disagree. Why don't you while on your high horse tell them their assumptions are wrong? Maybe the problem is you're someone who thinks the government is always right so if they in their infinite wisdom say obesity is a disease then hooray, we have another disease on the books... As I believe Kido said earlier, if I agree with you and use the word "disease" to describe obesity, now what? Crickets..... Good Lord. Have you ever held a gun to your head and decide to pull the trigger? Here's the deal... there was a time I was staring down the barrel and all I had to do to make it all go away was pull the trigger. I ended up there all by my own doing. I failed to get control of my problem. When I finally decided to pull... I could not do it. I wish I could say I changed my life because it was the right thing to do. I wish I could tell you how I pulled myself up from my boot straps and took charge... I didn't. I did it because I had no other choice, and a lot of folks helped. What I can tell you is the reason I got where I got is not one bit different today, which is not one bit different than the day I was born. My brain is not wired right, and I continuously work at keeping it in check. My sibling is obese. Has been for a very long time. Most people are shocked to find out she is my sister. My whole life I have been able to watch how she is treated... mostly because nobody assumed I was related. How they judge and condemn her. I have friends that do it to other obese people we don't know. To "assume" that you would act in a stereo typical way to your obese coworker is not that hard to do. The thing about stereotypes is that they get there by being mostly true. If you treat your co-worked with love and respect, and hold your judgments... unlike your first post, bravo to you. You just rocketed to the top 20% of all people. My sibling is in fact pretty lazy. I'm not. I have never figured that out. I know more so than others that she is where she is by her own hand, and that to get out of the problem she has to work. The only way I got out of my hole was to take responsibility for my situation, and work to change it. The only thing that stands in the way of going back is me. It hurts me to see my sibling in her situation, and know it does not have to be that way, but I have done all I can do. My mother has type 2 diabetes. She will be the first to tell you it is all her fault. It hurts me to watch her wither away. I know that it will kill her, and that it has robbed her of quality time. But who cares, she is just a POS. My "problem" ended over 12 years ago, yet I am not one bit different than I was 13 years ago. It is my responsibility alone to continue that. If they found a magic pill... it would not change one single thing for me. If they found the gene that is responsible, it would not change one thing. If they found the root cause... nothing. And the fact it has a name and is classified as a disease makes not one bit of difference to my life. But what I also know is that with all the research that has gone into it, that I have a whole host of places to go for help. I have a medical and psychiatric community that understands and can do a lot to help. I just have to want it. It's a pretty good thing. So shoot me... I'm a little sensitive to problems people have where behavior is a component. No where in this thread have I ever excused personal behavior. If your answer to the first question is "yes", then brother, I'm glad you didn't do it. If it ever will be yes, just know that there is so much help available to you that can change it. I will help. If you could never understand saying yes, then you just don't get it. No problem, I do not get being pregnant. I'm not wired for it. Oh... and the AMA is not the government.. yet it has declared it a disease... so now what? Has your world ended? Did everyone go out and kill themselves eating ice cream? Exactly what difference does it make in your life? Same crickets...
Wow, lots covered in that post, not sure where you were going with it though... Glad you didn't pull the trigger too....A permanent solution to a temporary problem...And I'm sincerely not making light of your considering suicide.. As for your last few shots, my world hasn't ended, I live my life fully and encourage those around me to do the same. If they want to eat ice cream and consider it a food group, their choice.... At least now they know it's a disease.. Which will do what again??
|
| 2013-06-20 4:28 PM in reply to: powerman |
| Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman I suppose I need to call it quits. There are many "lifestyle" diseases... but because there is a personal choice somewhere in there... many just say screw'em. I wish I knew what it was like to be perfect and never make a bad decision. In order to fix a problem, it needs to be understood. There are many other factors involved besides JUST the choices one makes. I just find it shocking that all the folks most against this are skinny people. The ones that do not know or understand it. Oh my. |
| 2013-06-20 4:30 PM in reply to: TriMike |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by TriMike Wow, lots covered in that post, not sure where you were going with it though... Glad you didn't pull the trigger too....A permanent solution to a temporary problem...And I'm sincerely not making light of your considering suicide.. As for your last few shots, my world hasn't ended, I live my life fully and encourage those around me to do the same. If they want to eat ice cream and consider it a food group, their choice.... At least now they know it's a disease.. Which will do what again??
You are right, they were shots. I was trying to be sincere, and tell you where I was coming from. You called me an enabler, and if you knew me at all in real life, you would know how wrong that is. But I did not have to ruin a sincere post with shots. And yes, permanent solution to a temporary problem... and even a selfish one, but at the time, that was the only one I thought I had. How wrong I was. What it will do hopefully is shed more light on the problem. That perhaps in the future, people will better understand their disease. That they will know what they need to do to stay in front of it. To take is serious, that it is much more than will power. That there are things working against them and they can not afford "just one". Me understanding my disease does not excuse my behavior. It tells me what I need to do to stay in front of it. That there are mechanisms at work that I must strive to control... it's better than what I was told before, that indeed I was a POS. It does not change what I need to do, but I do understand it a whole lot better. And I do not take it lightly. Is that not a good thing? Should we just keep it at telling them to get off their fat lazy butts? Should we just keep telling those with depression to just snap out of it and think happy thought? I'm being sincere. |
| 2013-06-20 4:44 PM in reply to: powerman |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Sorry you had such a rough go. Glad you were able to prevail.Originally posted by TriMike Talk about making assumptions, you hit a grand slam with assumptions right there. I didn't give "looks" of judgement in the scenario I painted earlier. I was explaining what I encounter regularly.... You also assume these are total strangers I'm referring to. That too is incorrect because over time in an office setting you get to know people quite well... And the people I'm referring to in my scenario aren't home sweating on the treadmill, stair-stepper (insert any workout here), trust me on that... You sound more and more like an enabler...You make many posts defending a position on something being a disease vs. a symptom vs. lazyness etc. yet give no ground to the posts talking about internal fortitude and ownership over the problem. Several have even posted their success stories and state they don't think it's a disease yet you continue to disagree. Why don't you while on your high horse tell them their assumptions are wrong? Maybe the problem is you're someone who thinks the government is always right so if they in their infinite wisdom say obesity is a disease then hooray, we have another disease on the books... As I believe Kido said earlier, if I agree with you and use the word "disease" to describe obesity, now what? Crickets..... Good Lord. Have you ever held a gun to your head and decide to pull the trigger? Here's the deal... there was a time I was staring down the barrel and all I had to do to make it all go away was pull the trigger. I ended up there all by my own doing. I failed to get control of my problem. When I finally decided to pull... I could not do it. I wish I could say I changed my life because it was the right thing to do. I wish I could tell you how I pulled myself up from my boot straps and took charge... I didn't. I did it because I had no other choice, and a lot of folks helped. What I can tell you is the reason I got where I got is not one bit different today, which is not one bit different than the day I was born. My brain is not wired right, and I continuously work at keeping it in check. My sibling is obese. Has been for a very long time. Most people are shocked to find out she is my sister. My whole life I have been able to watch how she is treated... mostly because nobody assumed I was related. How they judge and condemn her. I have friends that do it to other obese people we don't know. To "assume" that you would act in a stereo typical way to your obese coworker is not that hard to do. The thing about stereotypes is that they get there by being mostly true. If you treat your co-worked with love and respect, and hold your judgments... unlike your first post, bravo to you. You just rocketed to the top 20% of all people. My sibling is in fact pretty lazy. I'm not. I have never figured that out. I know more so than others that she is where she is by her own hand, and that to get out of the problem she has to work. The only way I got out of my hole was to take responsibility for my situation, and work to change it. The only thing that stands in the way of going back is me. It hurts me to see my sibling in her situation, and know it does not have to be that way, but I have done all I can do. My mother has type 2 diabetes. She will be the first to tell you it is all her fault. It hurts me to watch her wither away. I know that it will kill her, and that it has robbed her of quality time. But who cares, she is just a POS. My "problem" ended over 12 years ago, yet I am not one bit different than I was 13 years ago. It is my responsibility alone to continue that. If they found a magic pill... it would not change one single thing for me. If they found the gene that is responsible, it would not change one thing. If they found the root cause... nothing. And the fact it has a name and is classified as a disease makes not one bit of difference to my life. But what I also know is that with all the research that has gone into it, that I have a whole host of places to go for help. I have a medical and psychiatric community that understands and can do a lot to help. I just have to want it. It's a pretty good thing. So shoot me... I'm a little sensitive to problems people have where behavior is a component. No where in this thread have I ever excused personal behavior. If your answer to the first question is "yes", then brother, I'm glad you didn't do it. If it ever will be yes, just know that there is so much help available to you that can change it. I will help. If you could never understand saying yes, then you just don't get it. No problem, I do not get being pregnant. I'm not wired for it. Oh... and the AMA is not the government.. yet it has declared it a disease... so now what? Has your world ended? Did everyone go out and kill themselves eating ice cream? Exactly what difference does it make in your life? Same crickets... |
| 2013-06-20 4:56 PM in reply to: Kido |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Kido Sorry you had such a rough go. Glad you were able to prevail. But it was all my own fault. You had cancer, and did nothing to make that happen. I deserve no sympathy. I just have empathy for those in the same place. I'm glad you prevailed in your battle. I know all those that love and care about you sure are. Scientific understanding grows every day. We know things today and have treatments for cancer we did not have before. We have better diagnostic tools than we used to. Imaging found my tumor, and I am on the road to recovery through pioneering procedures. Hopefully some day obesity in this country will turn a corner and we can see people living happy, healthy, productive lives. Without a doubt, some will take the finding as an excuse to do nothing. Some will hate it because it stigmatizes them.. that all they really need to do is stop and they will be all better. But without a doubt it will also help some. Is it not a good thing to help some? Is it not a good thing to increase our knowledge and underlying mechanisms at work? |
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