The Decline of the BT community (Page 5)

1) i don't really use the forums on a mobile device. I use it occasionally on my phone and have absolutely no issues with it.  the new layout is much better than the previous in a standard browser however.

2) i agree with the spam point. it's a little ridiculous sometimes.  occasionally i wonder if the forum even has moderators since it stays present for so long.

3&4) im going to combine these two because i think they are related. its because a lot of the topics are the same.  one can only respond to "what bike should i get" or "should i be doing speed work" so many times before they just let someone else tackle it. when a topic comes around that has never been posted before people jump on it which is why the post about men in a womens marathon got a lot of replies. 

on the topics of experienced posters... i am on the fence as to whether or not their contributions are always a good thing.  yes good advice and insight into a problem is great, no argument there. however, some posters have developed a BT fanbase which will respond to their every post at the beginning of a thread "great advice as always" "yea what X aid" "wow great to have you on these forums your advice is always appreciated" when none of these posters are the OP or contributing in any way to the original topic. they derail posts and ruin constructive conversation.  often if another opinion or view point is expressed the fanbase will then proceed to attack the poster who dared to offer a countering opinion to their forum god. which is where negativity on the forums comes from. 

Maybe I'm missing something on this one but I don't see how it is more cumbersome.  In the old site all of your friends were on you training log page on the far left of the screen. To see that persons log and to inspire them I had to click my training log, scroll down and click their name, and then I could see their training log. From there I could view workouts, inspire them, etc. So it took 2 clicks to get to their training log.

On the new site to get to my friends I go to "Community" in the top navbar and select "Friends" from the dropdown menu. I see all of my friends listed. From there I click the users name and I see their training log and can inspire them.  That also takes 2 clicks.  I think some people may not see or know that and that is why people aren't happy with the new social aspect of the site? 

I personally like the new friends section.  The right sidebar if pretty neat to see the last posts, works, race, etc. of all of my friends. I can create a group. For example, let's say I was doing IM Florida, I could create a group and add my friends that are also doing IM Florida into that group.  Maybe it is confusing because clicking the name below their avatar takes you to their training log where clicking the avatar refreshes the right sidebar with just their information.

i agree with this 100%, conflicting or differing opinions or ideas are not welcome.  there really isn't anything to discuss if everyone is forced to agree.

I'll weigh in, for whatever it's worth. Seems like we have this type of discussion every few years or so. I've seen and felt BT shift a couple of times since I joined in late 2007. I skim over TT, but get easily bored with the same types of questions over and over, and since I tend to have little patience with people who can't or won't do a little research on their own I don't get involved in too many of the discussions. I've also noticed a turn over of sorts with the cast of characters, and I just don't like some of the newer ones. I know I play a part in that I am not as eager and excited as I used to be. I feel it in my training and in bits of my personal life. I had a 4 year quest to complete Ironman, and I did. Now I'm sort of in endurance limbo I suppose. 

All that said, I couldn't be bothered to read all the post in this thread and some I purposely skipped. So, there's that....

I like Switch's post and find myself nodding in agreement to several of the points.

Here are a few things that prevent me from posting more often.  None of them really have to do with navigating, using the mobile app or anything technology related.

I find disagreements, debates and sharing of ideas that are outside the norm to be intriguing; however, when people purposefully push other people's buttons it makes me want to sign off and exit stage left.  There's enough damn negativity in the world.  We're adults, we can't talk respectfully to each other and not try to make someone who doesn't see your point of view feel like sh*t?   There have been a handful of threads now that question why BT has become so snarky, started by people that I have personally found to be the snarkiest of all (that is not directed toward the OP of this thread).  In the past I've felt attacked by a member, attempted to defend myself and then been asked by that member, "why are you attaching me?"  Think about how your tone comes off before questioning everyone else's.

And yes, there are definitely certain posters here with whom you cannot ever disagree without having twenty of that person's supporters jumping down your throat.  It's not about creating a Kumbaya environment where everyone agrees; it's just irritating when you engage in a debate with someone and everyone jumps in with "Bob is right about everything.  You can't disagree with Bob.  He's been here forever and is the authority on everything triathlon".  It starts to feel like bullying on the playground.

Lastly, though I've met and befriended several people on this site, I've also reached out to some that never even bother to respond.  Maybe it was just to talk more in depth about a post, or maybe to share an idea.  But when you attempt to connect with people and get crickets, it makes you question why you would even bother trying.  It's funny--someone like BryanCD who got banned for what I assume was pizzing too many people off never missed a beat in responding back to PM's or inspires in a thoughtful manner.

This thread cites BT as a place that has become "too friendly", yet also doesn't "welcome" new or different ideas.  Well, you can't really be welcoming without being friendly so I guess I don't get that.  Forums have to find a balance.  People have to feel like they can say what they want to say without getting attacked; but they also have to feel like they can disagree with someone, no matter how "popular" that person is and not be attacked for that either.  And they need to feel like when they go through the hassle of posting something, that at least someone gives a sh*t.

I get frustrated sometimes with the amount of bad advice dispensed here that doesn't get corrected, and as one of those USAT Level 1 coaches, I'm occasionally embarrassed by some of the things I've seen posted by others with similar credentials.  Whenever I see posts like yours, GMAN, I become concerned that we all get lumped in together.  Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to know anywhere nearly everything about this sport, and still learn something new everyday, but unlike some posters, I try to avoid weighing in on topics that I don't feel qualified to discuss intelligently.  (My sig line is a reminder to both myself and others)  I'd love to see either a user rating or post rating system to help newer users distinguish between the good and bad advice, since many individuals seem incapable of filtering themselves.

I disagree with your second bullet.  I've been a member here since 2008, and in that time, I don't recall ever seeing an issue with blunt and direct conversation.  It's only when the conversation degenerates into name calling or attacks on the person instead of the subject matter that the Mods step in and deliver the smack down.  I also don't have an issue with posters offering encouragement to the "I DNF'd my 5th attempt at the Ironman distance" posts, because others can still offer their "maybe Ironman isn't for you or you need to drastically change your training or you need to get rid of that coach or whatever..." advice.  There's a difference between that and saying "You're an idiot, and you need to get a clue about training, or you'll never see that finish line."  Just look to some of the GatorDeb threads for great examples.  An expectation of civil discourse shouldn't limit the exchange of information.

There.  I disagreed with you, and we're still cool, right?  

I noticed this thread over the weekend, but I don't post much on the weekends. 

1. I don't access the site much on mobile, but I agree that it has been generally unfriendly to date when I have tried.  That's never been a major issue for me, but I do think that if it does not improve it will weigh on the social aspects of the site.  And really, combined with the logs, that's all the site stands on.  So hopefully upcoming work will improve this aspect for people like Fred who rely heavily on mobile.

2. Have noticed a bit more spam than in years past, but figure that's the 'price of greater popularity' and it really never bothers me much.  I just ignore it.

3&4. This is the meat of it to me:

I do think there is a bit less traffic in the tri-specific forums, although there are still several experienced posters who offer their advice with reasonable consistency (theoretically a plus but, as noted by some, that can have its downfalls too).  By and large, I think most beginners who come asking questions are able to get pretty good advice on their issues.  And mostly offerend in an encouraging manner.  Often, those questions are (by their nature) repetitive.  I understand people tire of responding to the same questions over and over.  Which is why I always find it refreshing to see some new additions who enter and begin offering their suggestions to those same questions.  And I have seen that through several cycles at BT.

What there aren't, are many threads started by that group of 'experienced' people anymore.  I don't think it's a coincidence that a few recent threads cited by others as being more valuable to them were started by some of those 'like-minded' people.  If "we" (the collective BT community) are waiting for 'newbies' to come and post a question that drives a really interesting training discussion, then the opportunities for such discussions will be few and far between.  And I do think the mentor forums are an issue in this respect--good or bad, I don't know--as they funnel some discussions away from the main forums.  Anyway, if enough of those people get the ball rolling from time-to-time, I do think there will be others to join the discussions.  Some of those others will offer 'signal', while others just 'noise'--and the categorization of either will likely vary for different readers.

But to back-track for a second, I think it's the 'like-minded' that's important in the above.  This does not necessarily mean a group of people who agree all the time on all topics.  What they do agree on is how debate should be handled.  The 'problem' that BT has is that it's community is large and diverse enough that there is not anywhere near agreement on that subject.  Just by reading through this thread, you can see that people have various goals or expectations from a forum they would consider 'attractive' to them by how people conduct or express themselves with words.  I do not see an easy 'fix', for what are human relations.  Actual names might help stem some issues, but I doubt it eliminates them by any stretch.  The best we seem to have are the forum 'rules' and moderation that attempts to keep the discussions inside some broad definition of 'acceptable' (as an example, ST's definition is substatially broader than BT's which impacts the types of people most likley to end up on either).  But some will always see those rules as too stringent on open debate and discussion, while others will always see them as too lenient. 

Separately, the friends & inspire system is MUCH LESS appealing than it used to be.  I could easily surf from friend to friend and get several inspires done each day.  Now, if I take the time to visit most friends once a week it is a lot.  It seems like only an extra click or two, but it is much more time consuming for what can only be a limited diversion in my day.  I do think that has hurt the BT community and should be cause for concern if this experience is indicative (are there more or less inspires, absolute or per active user, than before?). 

The good news (or bad, depending on your opinion of me) is that skimming the thread topics is actually easier now (thanks to the hover feature) and I can still spend a few minutes each day posting here and there.

Anywat, just a few thoughts.  No real solution or even major suggestion (other than take a hard look at the Inspire system).

I've gotten this impression at times too, Fred, but I wonder if it's really true?  Since on ST almost everything gets lumped into three forums (tri, classifieds, and LR) but here things are spread across many more forums, I've realized it's difficult to compare apples to apples.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are actually more individual postings here on a day-to-day basis when you add up all the forums and mentor groups.  Also, with anything remotely tri related going into the tri forum over there, most active users see most every thread, so they're more likely to post.  I'd wager that very few people visit every forum every time they log in, so many threads are never even seen by a lot of users.

Even though I seem to recall a lot of encouragement for Ron & company to split out additional forums during the redesign, in hindsight, I now wonder if they may want to consider it an experiment, and now head in the direction of consolidating some of the forums instead?

Well, one interesting thing resulting from this thread is that I've now seen a bunch "high post number" folks for the first time (or the first time in a while). 

It **seems** to me that this might be carrying over into some other threads (I've noticed a whole gaggle of folks that I just haven't seen much or ever this past year or so that I've been active).

So, Fred, maybe just shining the light is helping. 

Matt

Whining is probably not the best term.....but this isn't the only board that has ups and downs....they all do.  During the Lance Armstrong debacle ST went through a somewhat similar phase, though admittedly not as well seen or felt since there are so many members over there.  But people left, people got banned, people got their feelings hurt, and then it righted itself again and moved on. 

I've watched boards literally implode over too much moderating....and I watched a very successful board wipe itself out when the decision was made not to moderate at all. (yes, the inmates really can take over the asylum)

I pretty much post under the idea that some people will enjoy the posts, some will hate them, some will form a good opinion of me based on what is posted, and some will form a bad one.  It really doesn't make any difference because the numbers will end up being pretty close no matter what you post or what your style is.....it's the nature of people....and my nature as well.  These boards are not like FB or other social media avenues where you know everyone and basically you're "talking" to friends. No, here you will run into folks that you just don't have anything in common with outside of triathlon.....and there's a lot of ground there to not be like someone else. or in triathlon for the same reasons.

As for the mobile deal.....I made a few clicks this morning and pulled up the full site on my android and now when I go to BT the full site is just there.  I have no idea why or how.....it just is....so that problem, for me, is gone.

My bet is that you can tweak it all you want and you'll end up right where you are....some will like it, some will hate it, some will leave, and others will join.... at least as far as the forums go. 

I think this thread is a good one......it gives everyone a chance to "reset" a bit and look at how they post or otherwise use the site.