Birkierunner's (Jim Kelley) General + Long Course Group (OPEN) (Page 5)

Hi Anthony,

First, good job on sticking with it and making the progress you have made!

I am going to start with your last question first and move on from there.  Simply stated, I am not a fan of Total Immersion although there are a lot of people that swear by it.  In my opinion, TI minimizes body rotation and advocates too short an entry.  Taken together, those two things result in an inefficient stroke that doesn't provide much forward propulsion (TI proponents out there, please don't get your knickers all knotted up.  I didn't say that a TI swimmer can't swim, I implied they can't swim fast.  In this context, my definition of fast is an average pace of 1:15/100 yards or less over at least 1,000 yards).  I have never worked with someone who had trained using the TI methods that we did not have to spend several weeks breaking bad habits.  Will TI get you swimming?  Yes, absolutely.  However, using the TI methods you will NEVER be as fast as you might otherwise become.

Next, when considering swimming 'methods,' you have to remember what we are training for.  We are training for an endurance event called triathlon, NOT an event in a swim meet.  I say that because I regularly hear people, often right here on the BT forums, say things and give advice that, while it may help a swimmer shave 2 one-hundredths off of their 100 meter freestyle time, it won't do diddly to help in a triathlon swim (that 0.02 seconds over the course of a full Ironman swim totals 0.84 seconds.  Less than one second - on a swim leg that is likely over an hour long).  Above all else, as a triathlete, your freestyle stroke should be efficient and focus on conservation of energy.

Swimming, especially for a beginner, is largely an anaerobic exercise.  You eluded to that fact, "I made huge improvements last year in that I can now swim more than 100yds without getting panic-y," and, "(1:40/100yds) which I can only hold for about 100 yds."  A by product of anaerobic exercise is lactate build up in your muscles causing the burn you feel (well, actually it is the Hydrogen ions causing the burn but that is another discussion for another day).  When you continue on, eventually your muscles will just say, "Nope!  I'm done."  As a triathlete, you want to find a way to swim aerobically - using oxygen and fat for fuel - so that you can sustain the effort over a long period of time.  To do that, you need an efficient stroke that focuses on conservation of energy.

Now, the good news!  You said that when your taking it easy, your pace is about 2:00/100 yards.  That is pretty much middle of the pack across all triathletes.  As you move into the younger age groups, that pace moves towards the rear of MOP and as you move to the older age groups, that time moves closer to FOP.  Your pace is OK, especially after only a year.  Could it be faster?  Of course, but that is true for all of us.  My opinion is that you need to take a step back, don't worry about pace for a little bit, and go back to basics - Stroke technique and a base endurance build using proper technique.

I had this exact same discussion with another person in another thread just a few days ago so I am going to "cheat" and re post part of my response to her (no sense in re-inventing the wheel) -

If it were me, here is what I would likely do over the next several weeks:

For the next 2-4 weeks, 3 workouts per week, 900 yards per workout. The ONE AND ONLY GOAL of these workouts is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT STROKE TECHNIQUE. Something along the lines of 200 yard EASY warm-up, maybe 2 x 100 with 1:00 rest between repeats. Then 10 x 50 with 1:00 rest between intervals - during the rest periods, visualize perfect technique and remind yourself of various tips, reach for the wall, brush your hip with your thumb, high elbow recovery, drag fingertips across water during recovery, etc. Follow that with a 200 EASY cool-down. It is VERY important to understand, the point of this is not to ‘workout’ per se. The goal is to commit PERFECT stroke technique to 'muscle memory.' If you fatigue to the point that your stroke breaks down, get out of the water, go home, and try again tomorrow. I am absolutely serious when I say that. You are doing yourself a disservice if you continue to swim with less than perfect technique. The whole point of this period is to develop technique so if it takes you 5 minutes to complete a 50 (OK, I am kidding but you get my point) that is OK. Don’t worry about pace, worry about technique. The real goal of this phase is to develop your technique to the point that it is ‘stored' in muscle memory so when technique breaks down due to fatigue, it breaks down to perfect technique.

Next, I would  do several weeks of “Extensive Endurance Training,” by which I mean sets of repetitions that, in total, are longer than your planned swim race distance at a steady, comfortable pace with 1:00 rest between intervals (the sets below are for a planned Olympic Triathlon - 1 mile swim - they can be modified as necessary). You want the rest period to be sufficiently long that your HR can return to what I term the “base heart rate.” You can determine your base heart rate by taking your pulse at the end of an EASY, note EASY, warm-up. Over time, you will notice your HR returning to the base rate much more rapidly, an indication that your endurance is improving (you will also notice over time as your endurance improves that the base heart rate will become lower). Most HR monitors don’t work underwater so learning to take your carotid pulse is a handy skill to have. In this phase, switch things up, maybe alternate between [200 easy warm-up, then 10 x 200 with 1:00 rest, followed by 200 cool-down – 2,400 total yards], and then next time maybe [200 easy warm-up, then 10 x 100 with 1:00 rest, followed by easy 200 swim, followed by another 10 x 100 with 1:00 rest, then 200 easy cool-down – 2,600 total yards]. If need be, you can start with less repetitions and build to more reps as your fitness improves. During this phase, the primary focus is building endurance and stroke technique. Note there is not a repetition time, rather a rest time. The same thing applies here, if you fatigue to the point that your technique begins to break down, take a longer rest period. If that does not restore your technique, get out of the water, go home, and try again tomorrow.

So the next obvious question is, "What is perfect technique?"  I have written several articles describing the freestyle stroke and put them on my website.  I don't know if they describe 'perfect' technique but they do describe a freestyle stroke that is efficient and has the potential to go VERY fast (I was a member of a 4 x 200 freestyle relay that set a World and American record and all four of us were using the stroke described).  You can find those articles at http://goscottgo.info/index.php/swimming-technique.  I recommend you read all of them, however start with 'Catch and Pull,' 'Freestyle Stroke,' and 'Body Roll.'

Finally, there is no substitute for a good coach on deck, at least occasionally.  I have been involved with swimming for over 44 years and I still workout with my coach several times a year.  My strongest advice is to save up a couple hundred dollars and pay an experienced swimming coach that understands triathlon to work with you for half an hour or so, a couple days a week, spread across several weeks.  Or, an alternative, find a Master's Swim Team - remember they are largely training for swim meets, not triathlons.  The instant feedback is invaluable.  You need the feedback, and then the time to incorporate the corrections into your stroke, then get more feedback.  That takes time.  I am happy to offer suggestions.  I am happy to look at video if you can get that.  However, a coach on deck will ALWAYS be better.

Hope that answered the question and hope it helps.

Good luck!

 Edited for spelling and punctuation.  (Really!  I are a callage gratueight).

Good morning Jim and group. I would like to join if you have room for one more. Heading out for a run now and will post a bio later if there is room.

Anthony

Plenty of room Anthony - welcome

We embrace winter here in WI!!!!   Reminds me of a x-c ski race we were going to north of Duluth one winter.  While driving up to the race the temp bottomed out at minus 40 F.  They postponed the race start until it "warmed up" to a balmy minus 20.  It wasn't too bad once we got started.  Our local downhill ski area is actually closed today and Monday due to the cold temps...now that's something. 

Hi Kurt - you're welcome to join us!  I've done IM WI 5x so I think I might be able to provide a few insights

StevenC posted:  Happy New Year everyone.  If it's not too late to join, I would love to be a part of this group.  I could always use additional insights and knowledge.  Have pretty much been a lurker on these boards the past year and thought it was time to get more involved.  Call it a NYs resolution.  

Name:  Steve 44 years old

Steve, the "QUOTE" function wasn't working so I couldn't add on to your original post to request joining the group.  You are very welcome to join us. 

Hey Anthony - Would you be interested in working with a coach? A couple of years ago I took the swim "technique level 1" class with CES and I loved it. I really made significant improvements in my swimming. It's at UIC on Tuesday nights. You sound a little advanced for level 1, though, so I would suggest level 2 or just jumping in with the master's class. You would get more individual instruction with the level 2 class, but don't be intimidated by the master's  - it's all triathletes & it's focused toward such. I'd say at 2:00/100yd you would fit right in. Sorry for the PSA, but if you are looking for a coach or instruction in the Chicago area, I really recommend it.

Melissa