n + 1 swim challenge (Page 5)

Excellent  

Hey, peeps....caught wind of this through an Elesa inspire...wow I go away for five days and all hell breaks loose in the pool!!

OK...I'm in.  I'm swimming consistently again, and like Arend, my goal is going to be to actually get to the pool 3x/week, and I will be starting Masters Friday.  So I guess that's two goals. 

My swim background is like a lot of people here on this site...I have very little other than goofing around as a kid (and well, as an adult, too...).  I started swimming for triathlon back in Feb 2010, and barely it made it through a 200 yard session.  I used gsmcleod's Learn to swim program here on BT and got through my first tri that year.  Since then, I've had a bunch of stops, starts, breakthroughs, and breakdowns.  My current YPW is about 4K, trying to hit 3x/week; that yardage should jump considerably once I go to Masters, which is 90 minutes of pure hell hard swimming.  I can do an all-out 100M in the high 1:30s (high 1:20s in yards), but I haven't built up my longer sets yet.

I'm also running 4-5x/week, and biking 4, plus some strength training.  I'm training for two Olys late spring, the second at which I hope to qualify for AGN.  With my current bike and run times, I think I need a 30-minute 1500M swim to have a shot.  The good news is that I can hold that pace pretty easily in my workouts, but my open water prowess leaves something to be desired.

Since we started on the 15th...I got nothin', other than goofing around in a resort pool in Orlando.  I'll get in a lunch swim today.

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by axteraa

1/3 done.  1:05 in the pool, 3400 meters.

200 swim
2 x 200 IM
3 x 200 kick with fins, build by 50s
10 x 100 swim with fins on 1:20, coming in 1:10-1:11
100 ez
10 x 50 swim - 5 on :50, 5 on :45 holding :36s
12 x 25 fast on :30, started out doing 15s but was 16s by the end
300 CD

Thanks for posting this Arend.  What would you say is the "purpose" of this swim?  I'm trying to get everyone to think about that, but maybe for fish swims aren't designed that way.

How often do you swim with fins?  Is this something that you feel would help most triathletes?  Where do you fall on the work the kick don't work the kick argument?

I'd say the purpose of this swim is speed work.  The 100s were fast with a high stroke rate.  The 12 x 25 fast were definitely focused on speed.

I don't swim with fins very often, maybe once every couple of months or so.  I usually do it to work on swimming fast with a fast turnover.  I find it gives me a chance to really focus on my catch with a higher stroke rate - the lats tend to burn pretty good by the end of something like that.  I think it's something valid to try for triathletes once in a while.  If nothing else, you get the feeling of what it feels like to swim fast.

 

Thanks.  OK.  I have some fins, but haven't used them in a year. Same with my paddles.  Maybe I should get my toys out

These last couple of swims when I've been trying to get a faster turnover, I feel like my timing is off.  Actually, I feel like I have to swim more flat (less rotation) to keep the turnover.  Do you experience that when you try to increase your turnover?  Any tips?

Swimming with fins is for speed, and more specifically towards the bolded part. A bit different than the short repeats. I haven't tried with fins in a long time. Previous it really messed up my timing. Kick was suddenly very powerful and arms hardly added anything. I'm much more developed now, so it could be interesting to see what happens.

It can really mess up your timing for sure.  I find I have to just maintain a lazy but steady kick which adds that extra bit of propulsion and also keeps the hips and legs up nice and high.  A balls out fast 100 using fins and a strong kick is very powerful and fast but also extremely taxing.

I usually don't do much in the mornings, or try not to have more key stuff there as it is difficult to make these types of assessments. I have learned some on going with sleep patterns. Like if I get to sleep much later than planned or have a rough night of sleep. At some point I'll switch the alarm and bag the workout. Other than that, it's mostly been get up and at it. Reassess the workout later in the warm-up or after I get going with it. I think Arend does a lot more morning work than I have been though. Never done bike work on a weekday morning.

I usually don't do much in the mornings, or try not to have more key stuff there as it is difficult to make these types of assessments. I have learned some on going with sleep patterns. Like if I get to sleep much later than planned or have a rough night of sleep. At some point I'll switch the alarm and bag the workout. Other than that, it's mostly been get up and at it. Reassess the workout later in the warm-up or after I get going with it. I think Arend does a lot more morning work than I have been though. Never done bike work on a weekday morning.

So I walked out to the car today to drive to the pool for a quick swim session at lunch today, and my car battery is D-E-A-D.  You gotta be kidding me.  I went for a 4 mile run instead.

At this rate, I'm going to have to swim every day the rest of the week to make n+1 <facepalm>

Ditto for me...I'm training 6x/week starting anywhere from 5:30 - 6:15 AM.  And I HATE swimming that early, but I suck it up and do it.  I'm lucky that I work from home so I can schedule some sessions mid-day or late afternoon when my daughter is at swim practice (I usually run...I'm not going to embarrass her by trying to swim next to those fishes...). 

The tougher bike sessions are the hardest to do...I've done 1:45 on the trainer at 5:30 AM and it was pretty taxing.  I'm just ramping up the intensity on the bike right now, so we'll see how those 6 x 4's @ 105% go at 5:45 AM...

<edited for formatting>

I haven't heard of the program, but it looks like a good way to go about it.

Why don't you drop back a week?  Unless you are under a time crunch because of a race, it seems like feeling relatively comfortable before going on is a good idea.

That being said, I always feel a little bit of a struggle when I'm pushing into new territory in the water--whether it's swimming faster or longer.  I think I'll probably always have that feeling for a least a part of many of my swims.  I think it's a very individual thing, but I would guess most of the people struggle/suffer a bit on a majority of their swims.  Even the fish.  We are all used to suffering when we run or bike, but I think when we are learning to swim, that same level of effort can make us feel panicky. I'm not sure where the magic line is of good v bad struggle, but it may be something to keep in mind as you progress with the program :)

Bingo.  This is tough for (us) new swimmers to work through.  That first time you push it and you feel like you're not breathing often enough can be claustrophobic, and panicky is a perfect word to describe it.  Once you feel that tension, it completely snowballs into gasping and just trying to get to the wall.

The one problem I have with these "zero to X" swim programs is that they don't tell you how to swim those distances.  They just tell you to do X number of yards without any effort or form recommendations. 

I like Sara McLarty's beginning program here on BT:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1945

I realize it's five months long and I'm not sure about your race schedule, but it might be worth a try.  The first month is a little easier than what you're doing now, so it might give you a little breather!!  :-)

ETA: That was pretty callous of me.  I'm sorry your battery died. That sucks. 

PS See your butt at the pool :)

Great job getting the swim in.  Most would have bagged it after what sounds like a long day.  Well done. 

Mike, what race are you doing to try to qualify for AGN?

+1, great job!  I wouldn't have gotten it in for sure.

That's how you get it done!

Haven't seen much of it either. Will try to look later, site is blocked at work. Noticed that it's the early more continuous parts that get longer. Does it keep doing that? I would have thought to add more of the later intervals.