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2008-07-31 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:21 PM

I had to shake my head when I was in Pittsburgh and this guy told me about a piece of legislation that was introduced to the voters in Hawaii that would make everyone an organ donor by default, but you could sign up to opt out of donation if you so wished. Basically the same rule as they have now, except that you had to say no instead of having to say yes. It was defeated by a vote of 82% to 18%.



I would vote against that. It isn't right to take things from people without explicit consent. Implied consent is not enough.


2008-07-31 3:25 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
2008-07-31 3:25 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing

chadtower - 2008-07-31 3:20 PM
bcart1991 - 2008-07-31 4:14 PM That's why I signed mine. No reason not to do it.
There are plenty of reasons depending on one's personal beliefs. There are a few religions that pretty much preclude it as a possibility.

There are two - three if you consider Gypsy as a religion.  All others have given their official blessing (mainstream religions, I think there are some that are more fringe religions that have rules against not donating because a pure organ would go to an unpure soul).  The other two are Jehovah's Witness (they believe that it is impure to integrate blood from one body to another) and Shinto (they believe that the body must remain in tact because the soul needs it to travel around in the after life).  The Shinto religion is considered one of the main reasons why the Hawaii vote failed.  Many japanese descended citizens in Hawaii.

2008-07-31 3:27 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
wurkit_gurl - 2008-07-31 3:24 PM

jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:21 PM I had to shake my head when I was in Pittsburgh and this guy told me about a piece of legislation that was introduced to the voters in Hawaii that would make everyone an organ donor by default, but you could sign up to opt out of donation if you so wished.  Basically the same rule as they have now, except that you had to say no instead of having to say yes.  It was defeated by a vote of 82% to 18%.

For some folks, that might be too much of the government in control of their body parts. Not saying it's right or wrong. Just saying.



You shouldn't be REQUIRED to donate, but I personally like the thought that if I were to become a lampshade my parts could be used to save another's life.
2008-07-31 3:27 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
wurkit_gurl - 2008-07-31 3:24 PM

jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:21 PM I had to shake my head when I was in Pittsburgh and this guy told me about a piece of legislation that was introduced to the voters in Hawaii that would make everyone an organ donor by default, but you could sign up to opt out of donation if you so wished.  Basically the same rule as they have now, except that you had to say no instead of having to say yes.  It was defeated by a vote of 82% to 18%.

For some folks, that might be too much of the government in control of their body parts. Not saying it's right or wrong. Just saying.

I wasn;t really shocked by the result, but more by the margin of the vote.  There are many in Hawaii that are members of Shintoism, though.

2008-07-31 3:28 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:25 PM

There are two - three if you consider Gypsy as a religion. All others have given their official blessing (mainstream religions, I think there are some that are more fringe religions that have rules against not donating because a pure organ would go to an unpure soul). The other two are Jehovah's Witness (they believe that it is impure to integrate blood from one body to another) and Shinto (they believe that the body must remain in tact because the soul needs it to travel around in the after life). The Shinto religion is considered one of the main reasons why the Hawaii vote failed. Many japanese descended citizens in Hawaii.




Islam only allows it if the doctors performing the operation on both ends are Muslims and some Islam sects only allow the organ to go to a Muslim.


2008-07-31 3:30 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing

chadtower - 2008-07-31 3:24 PM
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:21 PM I had to shake my head when I was in Pittsburgh and this guy told me about a piece of legislation that was introduced to the voters in Hawaii that would make everyone an organ donor by default, but you could sign up to opt out of donation if you so wished. Basically the same rule as they have now, except that you had to say no instead of having to say yes. It was defeated by a vote of 82% to 18%.
I would vote against that. It isn't right to take things from people without explicit consent. Implied consent is not enough.

Are you kidding?  Our government uses implied consent all of the time.  The problem that I have with this legislation is that it is a poor job of marketing the issue.  You don't want people to coinsider it an obligation, but a gift.  You are sending the wrong message to get to your goal with legislation like this.

2008-07-31 3:33 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:30 PM

Are you kidding? Our government uses implied consent all of the time. The problem that I have with this legislation is that it is a poor job of marketing the issue. You don't want people to coinsider it an obligation, but a gift. You are sending the wrong message to get to your goal with legislation like this.




Using someone's remains is going beyond the reasonable limits for implied consent.
2008-07-31 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
I have to agree with CT on this one.
2008-07-31 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing

Don't get me wrong on this - I'm all for organ donation and would love to see more people doing it. What I don't want to see is people who didn't want to donate organs having them taken anyway. A person's remains are sacred and about as personal a decision as there could be. No one should be making that decision but the individual.
2008-07-31 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
chadtower - 2008-07-31 3:28 PM
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:25 PM There are two - three if you consider Gypsy as a religion. All others have given their official blessing (mainstream religions, I think there are some that are more fringe religions that have rules against not donating because a pure organ would go to an unpure soul). The other two are Jehovah's Witness (they believe that it is impure to integrate blood from one body to another) and Shinto (they believe that the body must remain in tact because the soul needs it to travel around in the after life). The Shinto religion is considered one of the main reasons why the Hawaii vote failed. Many japanese descended citizens in Hawaii.

 

Islam only allows it if the doctors performing the operation on both ends are Muslims and some Islam sects only allow the organ to go to a Muslim.

Islam

The religion of Islam believes in the principle of saving human lives. According to A. Sachedina in his Transplantation Proceedings' (1990) article, Islamic Views on Organ Transplantation, "the majority of the Muslim scholars belonging to various schools of Islamic law have invoked the principle of priority of saving human life and have permitted the organ transplant as a necessity to procure that noble end."

Muslim scholars of the most prestigious academies are unanimous in declaring that organ donation is an act of merit and in certain circumstances can be an obligation.
These institutes all call upon Muslims to donate organs for transplantation:

  • the Shariah Academy of the Organisation of Islamic
    Conference (representing all Muslim countries)
  • the Grand Ulema Council of Saudi Arabia.
  • the Iranian Religious Authority
  • the Al-Azhar Academy of Egypt

As far as having to be done by a muslim Dr., I met three people in Pittsburgh that are Muslim and had their surgeries done by Dr Sklarz at Univ Pittsburgh Medical Center (he is not Muslim).



Edited by jdwright56 2008-07-31 3:42 PM


2008-07-31 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
chadtower - 2008-07-31 4:38 PM


Don't get me wrong on this - I'm all for organ donation and would love to see more people doing it. What I don't want to see is people who didn't want to donate organs having them taken anyway. A person's remains are sacred and about as personal a decision as there could be. No one should be making that decision but the individual.

Exactly.
2008-07-31 3:39 PM
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2008-07-31 3:40 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
Spokes - 2008-07-31 4:39 PM

Wow. You people can POST. I'm impressed.

Thanks. Try and keep up.
2008-07-31 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing

My sister sent me this link yesterday.  It's rated G.  Not sure whether to laugh or cry.  Our childhoods always seem less dorky in retrospect don't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1fUqSQFdAI  

2008-07-31 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing


2008-07-31 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
I completely understand the reasoning behind making everyone an organ donor by default, but I would vote against it, too.  It's not the government's place to regulate that sort of thing. 
2008-07-31 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
cami bee - 2008-07-31 3:42 PM

My sister sent me this link yesterday.  It's rated G.  Not sure whether to laugh or cry.  Our childhoods always seem less dorky in retrospect don't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1fUqSQFdAI  

I am too old to recognize this.

2008-07-31 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
cami bee - 2008-07-31 4:42 PM

My sister sent me this link yesterday.  It's rated G.  Not sure whether to laugh or cry.  Our childhoods always seem less dorky in retrospect don't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1fUqSQFdAI  

I can't see it

2008-07-31 3:44 PM
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2008-07-31 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
jdwright56 - 2008-07-31 4:43 PM

cami bee - 2008-07-31 3:42 PM

My sister sent me this link yesterday.  It's rated G.  Not sure whether to laugh or cry.  Our childhoods always seem less dorky in retrospect don't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1fUqSQFdAI  

I am too old to recognize this.



Me too, and I'm not that old.

YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!

Edited by bcart1991 2008-07-31 3:45 PM


2008-07-31 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
Don't make me stop this TAN!
2008-07-31 3:49 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
OK - going home -- see all of you later.
2008-07-31 3:50 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing
wurkit_gurl - 2008-07-31 3:44 PM
cami bee - 2008-07-31 4:42 PM

My sister sent me this link yesterday. It's rated G. Not sure whether to laugh or cry. Our childhoods always seem less dorky in retrospect don't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1fUqSQFdAI

I can't see it

I figured you'd be one of the people who might recognize it (it's the intro to 'Denver the Last Dinosaur'). 

2008-07-31 3:51 PM
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Subject: RE: CosmopoliTAN #37: Drinks and Worldly Conversation about Nothing

mr2tony - 2008-07-31 3:48 PM Don't make me stop this TAN!

That was sooo two TANs ago.  And my response is still the same:

Are you gonna TAN our hides? 

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