Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 50)

Thanks Ben and Matt for your posts.  I've read them a couple times and I'm working on understanding it all.  I've been trying to make running more of a priority and run 3X/week and I went out today determined to push myself a bit.

Today I went out for a run and after a bit of warming-up I ran a 5K as fast as I could.  I ran a bit passed the 5K point without stopping and finished 5.12 km in 33:57 (6:37/km) for a new PB for me (by 25 secs).  I think I could be close to a 30 minute 5K in an actual race.  My average HR for the 5K was 154bpm and up to 169bpm max which is about the same as I got doing the 20 minute TTs on the bike.  When I finished the run I didn't have much energy left.

I'll try a 1 mile TT on Saturday but based on my first couple Km this morning I should be able to do it very near to 9:30.

I'm not familiar with McMillan but I'll find out.

Here is the Daniels article I was thinking of. Keep in mind that this is for working VO2, not threshold. Some things are similar, others are different. 

Daniels Pace Calculator

McMillan Pace Calculator. Put in the race time for anything, then go over to the training paces. Speed Paces here equate to Daniels Interval pacing. Looks like McMillan has added some videos to a few spots to help explain things. I think many find McMillan paces (training & race estimates) tend to be a touch faster than Daniels, iirc.

Hey, speedy ones!  Been just lurking for a while here and just wanted to check in.

Week 1 of my training plan is almost done...just the easy long bike and easy long run left to do.  I did my first Masters swim class Wednesday morning and I'm still recovering.    Completed my couch-to-5K program and did the easy 5K in a little over 30 minutes (note:  my adult, non-high-school-CC PR from 2010 is 23:06, so I gots a ways to go yet...but just completing it non-stop a year after my ortho said you may never run again is a big win ).  My training program going forward is pretty conservative on the run side, especially through April. 

I spent the coin on my first two races...both in June and the first is a pancake-flat short sprint (400M/12m/2.5m) and the second one a hilly long sprint (1K/17.5m/3.4m).  Guess I'm committed now.  Or at least my family thinks I should be. 

RE:  Intervals/ McMillan calculator/etc:  Interval (track) running used to be one of my favorite workouts (former track athlete, or maybe I'm just nuts)...problem was that as I got older (read:  over 40) they took a lot of recovery time and I had to be careful what to schedule the day before it and a couple of days after it.  I found the McMillan calculator to be spot on, but as others have noted it's definitely run-only oriented and assumes a pretty full run training schedule (as opposed to my 3x/week).

QUESTION:  Given my injury history (knee/back), I'm limiting my running to two main workouts a week.  The first (Tues) is a tempo run on the treadmill, and the other is my LSD run on Saturday.  I do a third "run" on Thursdays; maybe a mile or so as a recovery from Bikram Yoga and to warm up for my main foam roller session for the week.  So my question is:  is there any value to that "run", given it's only a mile or so?  I also do a WU/CD incline walk...I NEVER start running cold anymore.  I just figured it would give me one more day of run frequency with very limited injury risk and double as the muscle loosener (apparently made up a new work there...).

<rant/>  Oh, and could winter freakin' end already???  The high was 34 degrees here yesterday with 20 mph winds...it's supposed to be pushing 60 by now with a few 70s sprinkled in.  The only time I've taken my bike off the trainer is to get it serviced. </rant> 

Happy Friday...watching lots of basketball and lamenting my bracket picks already.

Yeah, I think you'll break 30 min in a 5K race if you paced it correctly...the competition adrenaline factor just can't be replicated in a training session.  Some are better than others at it (I can darn near redline on the bike, but no way in the swim or a PR run without someone pushing me...).  I'd also bet you can do a mile faster than 9:30, but as others have said be careful with those all-out speed efforts (both from recovery and injury risk).

For pretty much anyone on the site there will most always be value in adding more easy running.

Value, absolutely.  I basically took last year off and started out earlier this year doing 10 miles per week trying to do the 3:2:1 plan; three 1 milers, two 2 milers, one 3 miler.  I would do two of the 1 milers as warm up to my bike trainer sessions.

So I took my bike in for a tune-up the other day. When I went to pick it up, one of the shop guys said, "that looks painful," referring to the big drop from and long distance between my seat to my aerobars. He must be new there; he's a certified fitter. He quoted me a reasonable price, so I went in yesterday to see what he could do.

We ended up lowering my seat a little bit so there is more angle in my leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This had the effect of eliminating a dead spot I had and resulted in a much smoother stroke; you could hear the difference when I pedaled. Unfortunately, the clip-on aerobars I had bought (Zipp Vuka) had no front to back pad adjustment, and we needed to bring them in to get my elbows below my shoulders. We swapped them out for Profile Design T2 bars which have a ton of adjustability. There's less body rocking now, and more consistent power in the pedals. Plus, even though I'm more compact, it's actually easier to breath now that my upper body is supported by my elbows than it was when I was more stretched out.

So that was that, and I went home to test it out. I just finished the TrainerRoad Intermediate Base 1 plan, so I was moving on to #2. Like #1, it starts off with a 2x8' FTP test. Went out a little too fast on the first block and died at the end, but held the 2nd block pretty consistent. In the end my FTP went up from 224 to 234. Not sure how much of that to attribute to training and how much to the fit, but i'll take a 10 watt increase any day.

For myself my LT HR zones lined up well with the McMillan training paces, so I could use either.

Also, be careful doing the 1m TT so close to yesterdays effort.  Always make sure you are fully recovered when doing a TT.  And BTW, McMillan states your 1 mi time (race) would be to 9:32 using your above pace for a 5k, have fun with that!

Good on 'ya for registering for the races - nothing like a looming deadline to help focus the mind!

As for adding a run, even of a mile, definitely worth it IMO, as you only have 2 days otherwise.  Any way to get some additional base at a low injury risk will pay off (especially so for running, I think, than swim or bike, as there is a minimum effort below which you just walk - less so in the others, which can result in the dreaded "junk miles/meters"). 

And as for Spring, warning, rant alert:

Rode 34.2miles yesterday and the temp was, incidentally, about the same.  This, after ANOTHER 8" of snow Tuesday - enough to cancel school.  Then I ran last night - yep - during a snow shower.  Going to ride today, and it's now a balmy 38 (!) and windy.  I am DONE with winter already.

End rant.

Good luck with your remaining teams!

Matt

Canuck-type friends!

Will be visiting Quebec City soon. Anyone have advice on visiting that city? Running routes / groups? Swim? Places to eat / visit? Will be staying at Le Chateau Frontenac & won't have a car or bike, so no Mont Tremblant.

Thanks again Ben.  I'll go over the sites and the article tomorrow.  I really appreciate the info.

Hi Mike, glad to hear from you.  I appreciate your comments on intervals.  I'm always careful about recovery and paying attention to my body perhaps even a bit too much so.  I'm really young!... on the inside...but on the outside I look much older.

Congrats on signing up for your two races.  Should be fun and even a bit warmer by then eh.

Hope your spring arrives soon.  I won't tell you how nice its been here. 

Hi Dave,  I can't help you much on Quebec City.  It is about the only place in Quebec that I'd care to visit and Le Chateau Frontenac is pretty fancy beyond that I only know you should learn some easy conversational French.  If you atleast try to speak it they'll usually "tolerate" your English.

Steve might know something about Quebec City but its too bad Anne from the Mojo's wasn't still around.  She might know more.  Perhaps you could go to the Mojo's site and find her and send her a personal message.

When will you be there?  I think they are still in winter right now and for awhile yet.

Donto - I'll check my Garmin results to see what my last 3 km HR was.  Thanks.

GANG!

Just back from a few more days away....and I have some work to do here.  Onwards!

MIKE -

Yo!

And, I agree with Ben and Donto that the mile run is more for the good than for the better.  Were it, say, four miles that you were desperately trying to fit in somewhere where it might compromise another workout or even itself, then it would be a different matter.  But as Bikram recovery and foam roller warm-up --- why not?

If you still need more of a purpose to it, treat it as a quick "form" run.  My former coach used to occasionally set a short run for me that was just designed as "run pretty".  The goal was to visualize a running style that strikes you as "pretty", or maybe "effortless', and just set about to emulating it while you run.  But you can also just simplify it to work on your arms while you are running, i.e., are they aiding you, or are they too low, or too too high, or too far from your sides, or out of synch with what your lower body is doing.  Or......just run a mile and feel fine about that simple act!

MATT -

Um, no clear thoughts from here on what you should do about b2b vs that half-marathon.  In my own tunnel-vision world, I never did anything so "out there" that wasn't part of my race schedule.  That is, i guess, that i never did anything radical just for the fun of it.  (Sad, but true.)  

So, for me, I wouldn't do it unless it was far enough removed from anything else so as to cause no problems.  BUT THAT'S JUST ME!!!

Assuming that you're not in it to be really competitive, it would then be a very looooong training ride with whatever benefits accrue from such efforts -- and in this case it would be nutritional information and general confidence-building, which further involves the need to dig deep at times going over this hill or through that wind-gust. 

Perversely, I can admiot that were I to do b2b within a race season, i would welcome any inclemency that might arise on the day-of.  So, I would probably welcome rain (to some degree), along with any other trevails that aren't mechanical (including flats) in nature. 

Again, if you can keep stuff (such as races, or big race-specific training blocks) a bit removed from ther ride, that would be best.  But if not, then just have a balst with it and assume that you will do no harm to yourself in the process!)

(And, having just been back and forth through Vermont the past few days, i can confirm that the Green mountains are in fact STILL THERE.  Moreover, the word on the street is that the Berkshires are still there, too ---- so you're in business!)

MATT again -

From your post (fourth from the top) on the previous page, you ring oh-so-true with the paragraph that begins "The other thing to mention........."  Not only is the core of the paragraph true for almost all of us as we work to elevate our performances, but so too is how you finish it with the admission of doing soemthing less than fully wise -- but at least learning from it.  BRAVO!

Beyond that apargraph, however, sit a few more gems, especially the part about having soemthing in the engine to prime yourself for the next (hard) workout.  That dovetails nicely with the concluding paragraph about getting a coach, as a good coach wouldn't "allow" you to go gangbusters on just any old workout.  My former coach, Erik Cagnina, was wonderful at keeping my hard workouts separated, and the sense of discipline he intilled in me worked two ways:  there's the accountability to do the workouts he set for me to the letter, and also the need to keep the "key" (or even hard) workouts judiciously spaced.

BEST THING I EVER DID WAS GET A COACH!!!  And you may have seen me say this to others (or maybe even you?), but I would look no further than D3 Multisport for a coach.  Mike Ricci started it around '01 or '02, and by the time I contacted him in late '02, he was alrerady full himself -- but had just made his first coach-hiring, and that was Erik.  Erik had a ton of experience all on his own, but much of his coaching philosophy was based on Mike's own philospohies.  So, even though Erik stopped coaching a few years ago when his kids took up too much of his time, Mike is still helped by a crew of other coaches who, i am sure, are equally competent.  I owe so much to Erik, and Mike, and D3, and so if you are musing about being coached ---- head on over to www.d3multisport.com!!!

l

DAVE -

Pretty neat how that works, huh?  You "compact" yourself somewhat from being stretched out, and the oxygen seems to be more abundant.  Cool beans!

It is amazing what a good fit can do, and moreover how seemingly minor adjustments can reap much larger benefits.  And you're right -- any wattage bump-up is highly desirable.  So, don't focus too much on why you think you experienced it, but just take it as a sort of model for what can happen when you're in a certain position and pedal a certain way.  As for the dead spot disappearing --- hallelooo!!

DAVE again -

Let me think some about Quebec City; it's a been a while since I was last there.

Of course, you will have to spend time up within the walls, so that will put you in and around the Plains of Abraham where trails and roads with little traffic are abundant.  You could spend loads of time running up there and maybe never do the same route twice, but if you are hankering for something different, you can drop down to the raods that parallel the St. Lawrence River on both sides of it.  I'm not sure if the Quebec City Marathon has ever changed its course, but if it's the same then the maps on the website will show it heading south to a big bridge (forget the name of it, then crossing it to head back north to the finish line; either side would be good flat and riverish, at least in parts.

The Plains of Abraham may have "plains" in the name, which suggests flat, but that's not necessarily the case.  And even if it was mostly flat, you can find the roads that lead down to the river -- and those might remind you of some of the places in and around Pittsburgh!

When will you be there?

DAVE once more -

The big bridge is Pierre Laporte Bridge.  The base flat-and-riverview part would be along Boulevard Champlain, which you can get to either by car -- or by running down from the Plains/Battlefield Park areas.

FWIW, I did QC Marathon as my third, in '99.  It was not my best performance, to be sure, but conditions were ideal and overall I think I had a pretty decent time there.  It's a really unique city, so take time to just wander around the "old town" areas and try to separate the authentic from the more afeected and expensive elements. 

GEORGE -

Did you do the mile TT on Saturday?  Curious minds want to know!

Great run for you on friday, the 5.12km one.  I should go back to last year's group and see what times you were clocking -- and also the spirit in which you did them.  Somehow, i am certain that both your speed and attitude have improved enormously in just about a year.  Yes?

Nice compariosn of HR on the 5km run and the 20-minute bike TT.  I can't quite get my head around it all, but my guess is that the comparison is "valid", and that that's the way you might want your HR numbers to line up.  Righteous!

My run on Saturday was a bit disappointing.  I started out okay but then realized I forgot my HRM but I started running the 1 mile TT and got into it about 500+m when I realized that rather than pressing my Garmin "Lap" button I had actually pushed the "Off" button.  So I started over again but my knees felt "kinky" so I eased up a bit and wasn't able to run what I felt capable of.  In the end I did manage a good run I just didn't get the TT.

Today I went to the pool and swam 2000m again (10# 200m).  I felt good in the water and it went pretty fast but oddly, I felt a bit slower than usual.  Later, I ran another 8# intervals and I was able to run it okay but again I felt more tired and when I finished #8 I was definitely finished (whereas last Monday I felt I could run another two intervals).  Now I feel really tired.

I think I have improved over last year but only modestly though.  I got some great info from Ben and Matt that I think will help so I'm just waiting for the running to get easier.  Atleast it isn't as "ponderous" as it used to be.  I'm going to make running long and slow more of a priority.

Another really nice day here.  Sitting outside lots and I have to mow the lawn already (should've done it yesterday).

GEORGE -

Ha!  We're still in mow-the-snow mode, but a week of expected good thaw ought to help reveal actual ground before too long.

I empathize with your lack of button-pushing.  When I used to do 1000m TT swims, I would break them into 250m units at which I would push my lap button, and there were several times in which I was sure I had knocked off a scintillatingly fast first 250.......only to find that I had never pressed yhe start button.  Grrr!

I'm glad the info from Ben and Matt shows a good way forqward for you.  Those were solid references, and I appreciate their savviness to get them to you.

Finally, as I always like to say, remember that what we do in our workouts is never "linearily progressive"; that is, we can expect -- and always experience -- efforts in which our results don't match our expectations.  Which makes sense, cuz otherwise we would all be Olympian-caliber before too long!  Just keep plugging away at it all, which is what you have done with remarkable dedication in the year-plus I've known you, and the improvements will continue to arise.  And be happy to say goodbye (mostly...) to ponderous runs!!!!

bump.