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Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed (Page 52)
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 2012-05-23 7:24 AM in reply to: #4224476 |
Master  2238    Dallas |  Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closedmarkhodges1973 - 2012-05-23 7:06 AM I don't get commission but I should... About the food, the best thing to eat before sleep is a high protein, low fat, high polyphenols, non-heme carbs for good regeneration. To make it plain Engilsh, chicken breast (no skin) with roasted vegetables and you will have great quality of sleep, great cortisol levels.JBacarella - 2012-05-22 2:52 PM mikar_68 - 2012-05-22 1:23 PM gobluedds - 2012-05-22 2:15 PM mikar_68 - 2012-05-22 2:04 PM So if this takes approx. 3 months to see the difference, should I start it now or wait until the race season is over? It seems like this could mess things up a little.
It won't take 3 months to see any difference, you'll notice changes within a couple weeks. May take 3 months for big changes though. I'm still going through the process... Great thank you. I am looking forward to trying it out. Should be interesting. I'm sorry, I should have clarified that. I did see results quickly. Especially in my ability to complete workouts pain free and a steady progression of speed at lower heart rate. I was about 3 months into it when I was wowed by my progress. I was going longer distances at a faster speed than before but my heart rate was significantly lower. Ernesto - do you make commission on this book!? Nearly everyone from this group slowly takes the plunge - even I am seriously considering it now!! For those that tried the book, did you see any sleep benefits?
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| 2012-05-23 7:24 AM in reply to: #4224476 |
Veteran 419 clayton | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed question - whats the groups opinion on Schwinn road bikes - in particular series 6 and series 7?? Performancebike.com appear to have great deals on above two bike - main difference is aluminium vs carbon frame. Aly frame has ultegra GS while carbon has 105 - obviously to keep price in line. I cannot find good reviews - in general I read that schwinn were great in their day ~50yrs ago and are recently trying to get back in the game. but 1200 bucks for aly frame and ultegra seems a bargin to this bike buying novice. Similarly 1300 for carbon and 105 seems a steal too! on a related question - apart from price and weight whats the benefits to a begineer from aly and carbon frame? keep in mind I ride a hardtail MTB :-) thanks, |
| 2012-05-23 7:26 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Something about air travel always impacts me the next day. Best intentions to get up and swim and run this morning. Alarm went off and I had ZERO motivation/desire to get out of bed. My quads were sore and tired and I was just in general very tired. Forcing myself to take a rest day and come back at it tomorrow. Again, this is the hardest part of the training / fitness equation for me - figuring out when to back off and let the body rest and at the same time not feel guilty. I have to get it through my head that rest is part of he training equation. |
| 2012-05-23 8:01 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 5:30 AM Yoga class. Fell out of a lot of poses, but at least I didn't fart! So unless I get motivated to do something else, rest day for me. |
| 2012-05-23 9:36 AM in reply to: #4224476 |
Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 1,600 swim (16x100 Intervals). First time I was consistently swimming the 100 in 1:55-2:00 pace. Normally I start at that pace but half-way into the set I find myself going to 2:10. Kind of finding my rhythm and improving swimming aerobic capacity. May is turning out to be my best training month so far (in terms of volume, time, and consistency across the 3 disciplines) and is starting to pay off. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45" |
| 2012-05-23 11:05 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Nice 6 mile run this morning. I'm ordering the MAF book today, drinking the kool-aid finally. I'm also frantically searching the house for the heart rate monitor that came with my watch (405). Darn thing has to be around here somewhere. In the meantime, I've slowed my pace considerably on my last couple runs since I know I've probably been training too fast. I'm also practicing restraint and I'm not going to run the local 10k this weekend. My knee hurt really bad after the half last weekend, it does that when I try and run fast. I just know I'd end up hurting myself if I run this 10k, so I'm going to go out and do a long run on my own for fun instead.
- Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45" Edited by Climbinggonzo 2012-05-23 11:09 AM |
| 2012-05-23 11:55 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Regular 146 Indiana | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Question for those who have already taken the plunge into the Ernesto MAF world. It is apparent to me that I have been training WAY above my MAF zone of 137. I train in a range more like 147-165bpm. How hard is it to trust that I will not lose what I have already gained this year. Also, will this effect my upcoming races that I have over the course of the next 4 weeks/ Have any of you raced since you started the MAF approach? If so, how may weeks of MAF training did you have before you raced for the first time? Did you stay with your MAF zone during the race or did you pick up the pace? Sorry for all the questions, but I just need to know what to expect and what I sould not expect before jumping in with both feet. |
| 2012-05-23 3:03 PM in reply to: #4225146 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Climbinggonzo - 2012-05-23 12:05 PM Nice 6 mile run this morning. I'm ordering the MAF book today, drinking the kool-aid finally. I'm also frantically searching the house for the heart rate monitor that came with my watch (405). Darn thing has to be around here somewhere. In the meantime, I've slowed my pace considerably on my last couple runs since I know I've probably been training too fast. I'm also practicing restraint and I'm not going to run the local 10k this weekend. My knee hurt really bad after the half last weekend, it does that when I try and run fast. I just know I'd end up hurting myself if I run this 10k, so I'm going to go out and do a long run on my own for fun instead. What follows is unsolicited advice - I apologize in advance for poking around your training logs in order to formulate these thoughts. It appears that you have never trained properly for any of the half marathons or full marathons that you have run. Your frequency of running and volume of running is much lower than one would expect for someone running those distances. Credit to you for finishing the races but then I assume recovery impacted future training because you didn't have the volume/frequency necessary to recover efficiently. Look at the linked to graph: From January 1st through February 12th you ran 2 half marathons and a full marathon. Absent the mileage from the races, your total running distance from Dec 1st through the last half marathon was about 5 miles per week. You will benefit greatly from increased frequency and mileage. You are right - following the principles espoused in the Big Book of Endurance will help you do that. It will allow you to easily pinpoint a HR that you can target to ensure you run at an appropriate pace to build your aerobic engine. Just looking at your HM paces you should be doing your easy runs around 11:00/mile. Not sure where your MAF pace will come in. The key is slowing down so that you can run more frequently and begin to add volume when appropriate. I do not know the MAF principles like Ernesto and some of the others here do. Seek their counsel and listen to them. They have helped many here become faster. I sufered the same issues - couldn't seem to get faster, always fighting injuries or illness. My running was inconsistent. Would do a hard workout and not be able to recover for the next run, etc. It was a negative feedback cycle. Look at my logs (use the graph feature to see the trends). I was all over the place. I began to slow down my running last fall so that I could run consistently and increase volume (I chose to train more by pace than by HR but key concept was the same - SLOW DOWN). I've never felt stronger as a runner. Last Sunday I bested the PR I set in April for a HM by about 1 1/2 minutes during a training run - my HR was 13 beats lower than it was during the race in April. After the April race I was sore for the next half a week and couldn't think of running. I cycled Sunday night and ran and cycled Monday morning. Never could have done this in the past. Again - the secret sauce is consistency and frequency in training. MAF principles will get you there. Find your HR monitor and get busy slowing down. |
| 2012-05-23 4:18 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Well, while it's never easy to here constructive criticism, sometimes it's necessary and I thank you for it. Sometimes it's just what we need, a little friendly kick in the a$$ to get our act together and start training right. Maybe this time it'll stick and I'll have a great year?
2600 in the pool this afternoon, cut short by our favorite excuse, lightning outside. Just my luck too, the lifeguard working usually is hardly ever paying attention to anything going on in the pool, but of course she notices the lightning outside. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45"
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| 2012-05-23 4:26 PM in reply to: #4225989 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Climbinggonzo - 2012-05-23 4:18 PM 2600 in the pool this afternoon, cut short by our favorite excuse, lightning outside. Just my luck too, the lifeguard working usually is hardly ever paying attention to anything going on in the pool, but of course she notices the lightning outside. Arggg. This is a pet peeve of mine. There are NO known incidents of people being harmed by lightning while in an indoor pool. NONE. http://www.aquaticsintl.com/2008/novdec/0811_rm.html They should close the pool if your city has a zoo. The tiger may escape and tigers have been known to swim. |
| 2012-05-23 5:52 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Extreme Veteran 692 England | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed That's just weird. We don't have a lot of thunder storms here, but I've never come across pools being closed because if them. You Americans are strange... ;-) Today I had my first open water swim of the year. The water was actually pretty warm which was nice. More importantly I established that my wetsuit still fits, which is important because I have my first open water sprint on Friday. Not sure what I would have done if it hadn't fit at this point... Will update the challenge tomorrow when I'm on my computer. |
 2012-05-23 6:20 PM in reply to: #4225989 |
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| 2012-05-23 8:00 PM in reply to: #4225777 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed dangremond - 2012-05-23 3:03 PM Well said, Mitch!Climbinggonzo - 2012-05-23 12:05 PM Nice 6 mile run this morning. I'm ordering the MAF book today, drinking the kool-aid finally. I'm also frantically searching the house for the heart rate monitor that came with my watch (405). Darn thing has to be around here somewhere. In the meantime, I've slowed my pace considerably on my last couple runs since I know I've probably been training too fast. I'm also practicing restraint and I'm not going to run the local 10k this weekend. My knee hurt really bad after the half last weekend, it does that when I try and run fast. I just know I'd end up hurting myself if I run this 10k, so I'm going to go out and do a long run on my own for fun instead. What follows is unsolicited advice - I apologize in advance for poking around your training logs in order to formulate these thoughts. It appears that you have never trained properly for any of the half marathons or full marathons that you have run. Your frequency of running and volume of running is much lower than one would expect for someone running those distances. Credit to you for finishing the races but then I assume recovery impacted future training because you didn't have the volume/frequency necessary to recover efficiently. Look at the linked to graph: From January 1st through February 12th you ran 2 half marathons and a full marathon. Absent the mileage from the races, your total running distance from Dec 1st through the last half marathon was about 5 miles per week. You will benefit greatly from increased frequency and mileage. You are right - following the principles espoused in the Big Book of Endurance will help you do that. It will allow you to easily pinpoint a HR that you can target to ensure you run at an appropriate pace to build your aerobic engine. Just looking at your HM paces you should be doing your easy runs around 11:00/mile. Not sure where your MAF pace will come in. The key is slowing down so that you can run more frequently and begin to add volume when appropriate. I do not know the MAF principles like Ernesto and some of the others here do. Seek their counsel and listen to them. They have helped many here become faster. I sufered the same issues - couldn't seem to get faster, always fighting injuries or illness. My running was inconsistent. Would do a hard workout and not be able to recover for the next run, etc. It was a negative feedback cycle. Look at my logs (use the graph feature to see the trends). I was all over the place. I began to slow down my running last fall so that I could run consistently and increase volume (I chose to train more by pace than by HR but key concept was the same - SLOW DOWN). I've never felt stronger as a runner. Last Sunday I bested the PR I set in April for a HM by about 1 1/2 minutes during a training run - my HR was 13 beats lower than it was during the race in April. After the April race I was sore for the next half a week and couldn't think of running. I cycled Sunday night and ran and cycled Monday morning. Never could have done this in the past. Again - the secret sauce is consistency and frequency in training. MAF principles will get you there. Find your HR monitor and get busy slowing down. |
| 2012-05-23 9:23 PM in reply to: #4226151 |
| Veteran 445 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 32 minute swunch and a 5 mile run after work this evening - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45"
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| 2012-05-23 9:25 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Veteran 145 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed |
| 2012-05-23 9:47 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Today I rode my bike like most of my workouts lately, on my own. Ran a short brick later but it won't count because it's only fifteen minutes. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45" |
| 2012-05-24 3:17 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 1609 Gold Coast Australia. | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed A short 31min bike ride, just for the challenge. Btw, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I cycled with somebody.. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 15 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 35 ; 23:46'45" Edited by markz 2012-05-24 5:47 AM |
| 2012-05-24 5:49 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 5 mile run - MS 2x1 mile at 10K pace with 0.5 mile recovery in between. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46" Edited by dangremond 2012-05-24 5:50 AM |
| 2012-05-24 7:23 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Mitch, Mile long repeats are NOT the way to get fast, either you do a constant tempo to push your anaerobic threshold or you do much SHORTER intervals at higher speeds. Do you want examples? |
| 2012-05-24 7:32 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 75 minute swim class. Reporting 1 hour due to wall time. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46" - Gabe: S 9 / B 10 / R 11 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 31 ; 42:05'09" - Andy: S 8 / B 11 / R 12 /Rest Days 5 ; Total = 33 (Two extra from two races); 28:53'57" - Scott: S 2 / B 7 / R 14 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 28 ; 25:30'00" - JoeP: S 8/ B 11/ R 8 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 27 ; 32:26'50" - Ernesto: S 5 / B 11 / R 11/ Rest Days 3 ; Total = 27 ; 33:13'16" - Barry: S 6 / B 6 / R 13/ Rest Days 4 ; Total = 25 ; 20:32'41" - Mike: S 9 / B 4 / R 7 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 24 ; 23:28'36" - Jim: S 0 / B 12 / R 9 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 22 ; 21:17'58" (1pt post race) - Rachel: S 5 / B 8 /R 7 / Rest Days 4; Total = 20 ; 25:49'10" - Marcia: S 4 / B 8 / R 8/ Rest Days 6 ; Total = 20 ; 24:21’ - Samyg S 6 / B 8 / R 7 / Rest Days 3; Total=21 ; 18:58'53" - Jennie: S 6 / B 5 / R 9/ Rest Days 5 ; Total = 20 ; 12:56'36" - Markz: S 2 / B 7/ R 10 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 19 ; 25:54'00" - Chris: S 4 / B 5 / R 3 / Rest Days 6 ; Total = 18 (2 extra from race); 17:16:56" - Adrian: S 2 / B 7 / R 7 / Rest days 1 ; Total = 17 ; 19:22'53" - Jackie: S 2 / B 6/ R 3 / Rest Days 6 ; Total = 15 (4 extra from two races) ; 11:57'29" - Lynne: S 3 /B 3 / R 8 / Rest Days 5; Total= 14 ; 10:51'41" - Ted: S 0 / B 5 / R 5 / Rest Days 1 ; Total = 10 ; 9:56:00" - David: S 2 / B 2 / R6 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 10 ; 08:48'15" - Charlotte S 1 / B 3 / R 5/ Rest Days 5 ; Total= 9 ; 06:12':00" - MatthewS: S 0 / B 3 / R 1/ Rest Days 1 ; Total = 4 ; 06:14'00" |
| 2012-05-24 8:16 AM in reply to: #4226700 |
| Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed catching up yesterdays ride 12.5 miles 39.06 - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46" |
| 2012-05-24 9:14 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Regular 146 Indiana | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46" |
| 2012-05-24 9:37 AM in reply to: #4226920 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed mikar_68 - 2012-05-24 9:14 AM Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter. Your time will come back down and maybe even get better. |
| 2012-05-24 10:06 AM in reply to: #4226984 |
| Regular 146 Indiana | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed chris2533 - 2012-05-24 10:37 AM mikar_68 - 2012-05-24 9:14 AM Your time will come back down and maybe even get better. Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter.
LOL...thanks Chris. |
| 2012-05-24 10:17 AM in reply to: #4226920 |
| Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed mikar_68 - 2012-05-24 10:14 AM Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter. It will get better. I started MAF beginning of January (began trianing regularly in November). At the time I my best 3 miles was at 9:30 pace (see, I am slow too), most of my runs were close to the 10 min/mile. I began MAF worse than you, my first try was slightly under 14 min/mile (that's basically walking while going through jogging motions). I ran 5 miles for the first time a week later and finished feeling like I could run another 5. I also decided to run 3 miles at race pace every month or so just to see what the improvement was. In February 9, after running at only MAF for a month, I tried to push the pace. Was able to run 3 miles at 9:10 pace. My MAF pace was down to 12:45. Fast forward 2 months running only at MAF. In April I ran 3 miles at 8:45 pace. Current MAF pace at 12:15. I know the feeling. I am waiting for my MAF to drop into the 11s (and not waiting patiently), and sometimes I feel like "forgetting" my HR monitor. But MAF has allowed me not only to improve my pace, but increase my distance while lowering impact on the body. At 43 years old, 6'3" and 190 lbs, there is so much impact I can take before falling into pieces. I still feel sometimes that by running at MAF I am not doing "enough". As I said, the most difficult part is being patient. Sometimes I feel like wearing a sign while I run that says "I can run faster than this!". But a couple of weeks back I added a third weekly run into my schedule. Next week I will increase my long runs to 7 miles, and have been able to ramp up training in all 3 sports without any injury issues (knock on wood). So the three things you need to get the most of MAF training s is patience, patience, and patience (and a HR monitor). .
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