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Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed (Page 53)
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 2012-05-24 10:21 AM in reply to: #4226984 |
Expert  2811   |  Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closedchris2533 - 2012-05-24 9:37 AM mikar_68 - 2012-05-24 9:14 AM Your time will come back down and maybe even get better. Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter. I will second that, I just takes patience and it will come. I was amazed at how good I felt after my runs after starting MAF training. It felt like I could run forever, no pain. Prior to MAF training I problems with my achillies. I have had no such problems since. I have also increased my mileage significantly since then. |
| 2012-05-24 10:22 AM in reply to: #4227094 |
Master 1780   Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 3 miles at MAF. 36'59". Recovery week so decrease mileage by 20%. Feel like I am cheating somehow. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46"- Gabe: S 9 / B 10 / R 11 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 31 ; 42:05'09" - Andy: S 8 / B 11 / R 12 /Rest Days 5 ; Total = 33 (Two extra from two races); 28:53'57" - Scott: S 2 / B 7 / R 14 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 28 ; 25:30'00" - JoeP: S 8/ B 11/ R 8 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 27 ; 32:26'50" - Ernesto: S 5 / B 11 / R 11/ Rest Days 3 ; Total = 27 ; 33:13'16" - Barry: S 6 / B 6 / R 13/ Rest Days 4 ; Total = 25 ; 20:32'41" - Mike: S 9 / B 4 / R 8 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 25 ; 24:55'46" - Jim: S 0 / B 13 / R 9 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 23 ; 21:57'04" (1pt post race) - Samyg S 6 / B 8 / R 8 / Rest Days 3; Total=22 ; 19:35'52" - Rachel: S 5 / B 8 /R 7 / Rest Days 4; Total = 20 ; 25:49'10" - Marcia: S 4 / B 8 / R 8/ Rest Days 6 ; Total = 20 ; 24:21’ - Jennie: S 6 / B 5 / R 9/ Rest Days 5 ; Total = 20 ; 12:56'36" - Markz: S 2 / B 7/ R 10 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 19 ; 25:54'00" - Chris: S 4 / B 5 / R 3 / Rest Days 6 ; Total = 18 (2 extra from race); 17:16:56" - Adrian: S 2 / B 7 / R 7 / Rest days 1 ; Total = 17 ; 19:22'53" - Jackie: S 2 / B 6/ R 3 / Rest Days 6 ; Total = 15 (4 extra from two races) ; 11:57'29" - Lynne: S 3 /B 3 / R 8 / Rest Days 5; Total= 14 ; 10:51'41" - Ted: S 0 / B 5 / R 5 / Rest Days 1 ; Total = 10 ; 9:56:00" - David: S 2 / B 2 / R6 / Rest Days 3 ; Total = 10 ; 08:48'15" - Charlotte S 1 / B 3 / R 5/ Rest Days 5 ; Total= 9 ; 06:12':00" - MatthewS: S 0 / B 3 / R 1/ Rest Days 1 ; Total = 4 ; 06:14'00" |
| 2012-05-24 10:33 AM in reply to: #4226688 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-05-24 8:23 AM Mitch, Mile long repeats are NOT the way to get fast, either you do a constant tempo to push your anaerobic threshold or you do much SHORTER intervals at higher speeds. Do you want examples? I'll always take guidance/examples. I had been doing longer intervals as part of tempo runs...for example - 1 mile WU, 2 miles tempo pace, 1 mile easy, 2 miles tempo, 1 mile CD. This morning's run was intended to be a modified or easier tempo run. I've been getting some pro bono coaching and I think the philosophy was that with my HM next weekend (June 3rd) and some shin splint issues I've been experiencing to ease off some of the longer speed efforts and just try to maintain and not build fitness. Happy to hear other's thoughts. Edited by dangremond 2012-05-24 10:36 AM |
| 2012-05-24 10:47 AM in reply to: #4227148 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed dangremond - 2012-05-24 10:33 AM On race week, what I would do is go to the track, warm up for a mile, do 8X1' above race pace with one minute recoveries and warm down for another mile. Short workout, intense and non taxing. Many more examples if you want. One of the biggest mistakes of the racers is to belileve that the intensity on race week should be diminished for increased rest and race readiness. WRONG, volume decreases on race week, intensity should go up. Tempos on race week are too demanding.ernestov - 2012-05-24 8:23 AM Mitch, Mile long repeats are NOT the way to get fast, either you do a constant tempo to push your anaerobic threshold or you do much SHORTER intervals at higher speeds. Do you want examples? I'll always take guidance/examples. I had been doing longer intervals as part of tempo runs...for example - 1 mile WU, 2 miles tempo pace, 1 mile easy, 2 miles tempo, 1 mile CD. This morning's run was intended to be a modified or easier tempo run. I've been getting some pro bono coaching and I think the philosophy was that with my HM next weekend (June 3rd) and some shin splint issues I've been experiencing to ease off some of the longer speed efforts and just try to maintain and not build fitness. Happy to hear other's thoughts. |
| 2012-05-24 10:58 AM in reply to: #4227191 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-05-24 11:47 AM dangremond - 2012-05-24 10:33 AM On race week, what I would do is go to the track, warm up for a mile, do 8X1' above race pace with one minute recoveries and warm down for another mile. Short workout, intense and non taxing. Many more examples if you want. One of the biggest mistakes of the racers is to belileve that the intensity on race week should be diminished for increased rest and race readiness. WRONG, volume decreases on race week, intensity should go up. Tempos on race week are too demanding.ernestov - 2012-05-24 8:23 AM Mitch, Mile long repeats are NOT the way to get fast, either you do a constant tempo to push your anaerobic threshold or you do much SHORTER intervals at higher speeds. Do you want examples? I'll always take guidance/examples. I had been doing longer intervals as part of tempo runs...for example - 1 mile WU, 2 miles tempo pace, 1 mile easy, 2 miles tempo, 1 mile CD. This morning's run was intended to be a modified or easier tempo run. I've been getting some pro bono coaching and I think the philosophy was that with my HM next weekend (June 3rd) and some shin splint issues I've been experiencing to ease off some of the longer speed efforts and just try to maintain and not build fitness. Happy to hear other's thoughts. How many days before the race? I have a progression run of 8 miles on Sunday. Some easy low mileage runs and one run with a 2 mile segment just faster than race pace during the week. My planned log is up to date if you want to look at the rest of this week and next week. I modified the remainder of this week due to my trip earlier in the week. What's also been tricky is that I have a Sprint triathlon on June 17th. I have been focusing on the HM at the expense of the triathlon (also trying to finally win a monthly challenge... Edited by dangremond 2012-05-24 11:08 AM |
). My real A race triathlon will be my first Olympic in September of this year. This Sprint is to get my feet wet again in tri's and to race in a wetsuit for the first time.| 2012-05-24 12:23 PM in reply to: #4227110 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 5 mile runch at MAF-4 44:14. - Mitch: S 5 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 36 ; 24:27'46" Samy is screwed up and accidentally deleted you, I put you back in, but could you check the numbers and make sure they are right. Edited by JBacarella 2012-05-24 12:27 PM |
| 2012-05-24 12:45 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Swim at lunch. - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" |
| 2012-05-24 1:12 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 819 In the Shadow of the Big House | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Thank God it's Thursday or OMG!, It's Thursday?! I'm not entirely sure where the week has gone, but work, kids and friends in crisis have eaten up all available training time since Sunday nite. I guess I'm taking a couple more rest days for the challenge. Hope to be able to get back to some kind of exercise tonite, but we'll see. On the positive side, I sure don't feel overtrained right now. LOL Good luck to anyone racing this weekend. - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" Edited by gobluedds 2012-05-24 1:13 PM |
 2012-05-24 1:52 PM in reply to: #4227536 |
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| 2012-05-24 2:11 PM in reply to: #4227094 |
| Regular 146 Indiana | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Samyg - 2012-05-24 11:17 AM mikar_68 - 2012-05-24 10:14 AM Okay, I am a little frustrated and a little intrigued at the same time. I ran my first MAF 6.5 miles last and averaged 12.5 min. miles. This is the discouraging part, I felt like I was practically walking most of the time. It was way slower than I usually run (10min miles). I know, I know, I am slow! I was able to increase my speed the last mile and a half while maintaining my MAF. The intriguing part is that I still had a lot of gas in the tank when I was done and I was not sweating profusely even though it was 80 deg. F outside. Please tell me that my time will come back down or maybe even get batter. It will get better. I started MAF beginning of January (began trianing regularly in November). At the time I my best 3 miles was at 9:30 pace (see, I am slow too), most of my runs were close to the 10 min/mile. I began MAF worse than you, my first try was slightly under 14 min/mile (that's basically walking while going through jogging motions). I ran 5 miles for the first time a week later and finished feeling like I could run another 5. I also decided to run 3 miles at race pace every month or so just to see what the improvement was. In February 9, after running at only MAF for a month, I tried to push the pace. Was able to run 3 miles at 9:10 pace. My MAF pace was down to 12:45. Fast forward 2 months running only at MAF. In April I ran 3 miles at 8:45 pace. Current MAF pace at 12:15. I know the feeling. I am waiting for my MAF to drop into the 11s (and not waiting patiently), and sometimes I feel like "forgetting" my HR monitor. But MAF has allowed me not only to improve my pace, but increase my distance while lowering impact on the body. At 43 years old, 6'3" and 190 lbs, there is so much impact I can take before falling into pieces. I still feel sometimes that by running at MAF I am not doing "enough". As I said, the most difficult part is being patient. Sometimes I feel like wearing a sign while I run that says "I can run faster than this!". But a couple of weeks back I added a third weekly run into my schedule. Next week I will increase my long runs to 7 miles, and have been able to ramp up training in all 3 sports without any injury issues (knock on wood). So the three things you need to get the most of MAF training s is patience, patience, and patience (and a HR monitor). .
This is great news. Thank you for sharing this with me. It actually has helped me reset my way of thinking. Especially now that I know that someone else is experiencing the same kind of problems. Here's a funny story. You talked about a sign that says "I can run faster than this", which by the way is funny because I was thinking something very similar. While I was running last night I went past a guy on a riding lawn mower and he must have been pushing 300 - 350 lbs. Of course he made a turn in his yard that put him facing me and he was only 10-15 feet away when he looked up and smiled real big and then made a running motion with his arms and said "Come on you can run faster than that...Keep going". I wanted to break out in a full out sprint to show him I could, but reminded I myself that I had nothing to prove to this guy. However, now that you shared your idea of the shirt I think I will write this saying on a white shirt with a sharpie the next time I go by his house. |
| 2012-05-24 2:19 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Regular 146 Indiana | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed I was able to sneak an OWS at lunch today. Felt great. Not sure if I was at MAF, but tried to keep my effort and my perceived exertion in mind. Seemed to help.
- Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" |
| 2012-05-24 2:54 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed I found the heart rate monitor! Can't get it to work though. I just bought new battery for it, hopefully that does the trick. For future reference, Walmart sucks even worse on a holiday weekend! |
| 2012-05-24 4:55 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed OK, here's the link to my first attempt at an MAF run: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/181674270 The book is en route, so I just went with the basic 180 minus my age and didn't get too specific about it. So 143 was what I should have been shooting for, I ran 3 miles in 32:07 (avg. 10:39/mile) with an average heart rate of 144. Did I do it right? I haven't figured out yet how to display the HR on my watch on the same screen as time/distance/pace, so all I had to go on was the heartrate, no pace or anything else, which was probably for the best. I just ran and looked at my watch every 10 seconds to see where the HR was at. It went up to 150ish a couple times when going up hill and dropped to 140ish a couple times. Is that ok and to be expected, as long as you come in at an average of your MAF HR?
- Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" Edited by Climbinggonzo 2012-05-24 4:59 PM |
| 2012-05-24 5:29 PM in reply to: #4227991 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Climbinggonzo - 2012-05-24 4:55 PM Andy,OK, here's the link to my first attempt at an MAF run: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/181674270 The book is en route, so I just went with the basic 180 minus my age and didn't get too specific about it. So 143 was what I should have been shooting for, I ran 3 miles in 32:07 (avg. 10:39/mile) with an average heart rate of 144. Did I do it right? I haven't figured out yet how to display the HR on my watch on the same screen as time/distance/pace, so all I had to go on was the heartrate, no pace or anything else, which was probably for the best. I just ran and looked at my watch every 10 seconds to see where the HR was at. It went up to 150ish a couple times when going up hill and dropped to 140ish a couple times. Is that ok and to be expected, as long as you come in at an average of your MAF HR?
Try to keep your HR at no more than your MAF zone, 10 beats above is too much. Disregard the pace and slow down as much as you have to until your HR is equal or below the magic number. After a while, it will be hard for you treach that HR form below because you cardiovascular fitness will be much better. The 405 (same as the other models) can be programed to alert you when the HR goes above a predetermined setpoint, any number you want. Use that tool, I still do. |
| 2012-05-24 8:54 PM in reply to: #4227991 |
| Veteran 445 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 15.4 miles on the bike first thing this morning - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" |
| 2012-05-24 9:48 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Expert 1255 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" |
| 2012-05-24 9:53 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Expert 1255 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed New MAFers. My MAF HR was 123 last year. I couldn't run at all, but had to walk, and rather slowly at that! Fortunately, I don't have the male macho gene, so I didn't really care what anyone else thought. I did a lot of griping on the forum though about walking a lot. It works! Keep the faith. After one year of injury free workouts, I can increase my MAF to a whopping 128. On race day, I go above MAF. |
| 2012-05-25 2:00 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 1609 Gold Coast Australia. | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed A 12k run this morning. 1:08 - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" I must say, I also wonder (specially for us folks with signifcantly lower MAFs), how can walking make someone a faster runner..? Don't get me wrong, I am a strong believer in Jeff Galloway's method and use it all the time on long runs, but that's because I simply can't run for 3 hrs + non-stop. I also don't care about speed so much, as long as I can do the distance. Edited by markz 2012-05-25 2:11 AM |
| 2012-05-25 7:38 AM in reply to: #4228383 |
| Veteran 445 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 5 miles this morning - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47"
Edited by baurryman 2012-05-25 7:38 AM |
| 2012-05-25 8:39 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Last night I swum with teammates, I got back in the fast lane!! I was able to hold in the back (with the draft) behind the really fast dudes, but that is how you get fast (train with the best if you want to be the best). I felt like they were swimming like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaNJPlXk2uM Also, I did a short track session this morning (30+ minutes) that I will not count towards the challenge because today was my scheduled day off. How’s everybody gearing up for the long weekend in the US?
- Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" Edited by ernestov 2012-05-25 8:40 AM |
| 2012-05-25 8:49 AM in reply to: #4228680 |
| Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-05-25 8:39 AM How’s everybody gearing up for the long weekend in the US?
The pool at my Y closed for a week starting today for their annual draining and maintenance, so it's time for some open water swims. Water temps are probably approaching 60 so no more excuses. |
| 2012-05-25 8:58 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed By the way, how does the group feel about a June edition of the challenge? I know we always let a month in between, but most are gearing up for the season or already in it and the folks on the other hemisphere need the frequency to stay fast... Periodization is key to a good season so I'm counting myself in, anybody else? |
| 2012-05-25 9:22 AM in reply to: #4228737 |
| Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-05-25 9:58 AM By the way, how does the group feel about a June edition of the challenge? I know we always let a month in between, but most are gearing up for the season or already in it and the folks on the other hemisphere need the frequency to stay fast... Periodization is key to a good season so I'm counting myself in, anybody else? I have two races in June (3rd and 17th) and then a blank slate until September. Family events in July and August where training will need to be creative to get done. My focus in June is going to be swimming, increasing cycling volume/intensity and dialing back the intensity on my running (last half of the month) while trying to remain consistent. I'll sign up for the challenge again because it will keep me honest after the 17th when slacking off will be a natural thought of mine. |
| 2012-05-25 9:27 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
| Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Today 1,600 swimming. Reverse pyramid (600,400,300,200,100). Second good swim in a row, finding my rhythm and breathing pattern, getting that glide feeling. Keeping up the same (slow) speed (2:05-2:10 / 100) throughout the swim but finishing fresher. I believe both of my races were affected by me being too tired after the swim, so "easy" swimming is my first goal. And keeping with Ernesto's comparing his swimming to animals, here is what I think I look like when I swim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIG4NMY-ooo - Mitch: S 6 / B 15 / R 16 / Rest Days 4 ; Total = 37 ; 24:57'47" BTW, I am in for the challenge. May is already my best training month by volume, with still one week to go, so need something to make sure I keep it going. |
| 2012-05-25 9:33 AM in reply to: #4228737 |
| Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-05-25 8:58 AM By the way, how does the group feel about a June edition of the challenge? I know we always let a month in between, but most are gearing up for the season or already in it and the folks on the other hemisphere need the frequency to stay fast... Periodization is key to a good season so I'm counting myself in, anybody else? I'll do it again, however there's little point since after Alcatraz on the 10th we're spending 10 days on the road with the kids visiting Yosemite and Sequoia national parks, so my training during that time will be at a bare minimum, at best I'll get a run in each day, but won't even have my bike with me and no access to a pool or body of water to train in. That's also my 2 week down time before my actual plan for AZ starts.
edit: which is too bad, since 3 days of being really sick may have knocked me out of contention for winning this month... Edited by Climbinggonzo 2012-05-25 9:35 AM |
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