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Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 56)
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 2011-02-22 9:28 AM in reply to: #3006331 |
Master  3546     Millersville, MD |  Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official ThreadI agree with the point of being "fresh" when you get off the bike. Of course you won't be as fresh as if you were running a stand-alone marathon, but I think proper bike pacing means that you can run within 20-30 minutes of the pace you could have run an open marathon. People who run their IM marathon 1 or more hours slower than what they were in shape to run an open marathon almost certainly overbaked the bike... and this happens to the majority of IMers on any given sunday. So that's my definition of fresh... for the first half of the run you should be needing to force yourself to slow down, not musting all you can to barely move forward. If you aren't there, you biked faster than your bike fitness warranted... and regardless of your run fitness you are going to fall apart (sooner rather than alter if your run fitness isn't where it should be). The numbers power numbers are irrelevant (just like my 50 mpw is irrelevant without a bigger picture of the athlete)... 250 may be way too easy for someone and way too hard for someone else. did I mention PACING? Preach on brother! Pacing (the other half of race execution being nutrition) will make or break your IM (any race, really... it's just that if you mess it up in the IM you usually realize that with a long way to go... and then the end is ugly). And proper pacing is specific to an individual athlete's fitness. It's pointless to want to run a sub-4 marathon if you aren't in shape for that... you'll start out at that pace and then run 5 hours when you crack. Likewise it's pointless to want to hold 20 mph when all of your training rides indicate that 20mph is closer to your tempo pace. It's so easy to set a time goal and then train towards that... when what we should do is train based on our present fitness and then set our time goals a few weeks before race day. |
| 2011-02-22 9:36 AM in reply to: #3366693 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread 15step - 2011-02-22 10:07 AM I guess I need to at least read this BarryP approach. I notice that always go out way to hard on long runs, and pay for it later. Im talking 7:00-7:30 for the first few miles, then slow down to 8:30 or so. I end up exhausted and sore, which I know is a big no-no. I suppose there is no real solution to the issue, besides being very aware of my pace and going slower than I feel I should. BarryP is mostly about run training, not race execution... though he does note that part of the reason he is training the long course athlete the way he does is that they need endurance, not speed, on race day. This might sound harsh, but I hope that's okay. Your pacing problems don't sound like training problems... they sound like discipline/experience problems. I promise you that if you are in tune with your body and know what pace you can hold for the ENTIRE race, and then run about that pace for the first half of the race, you'll have a much more positive race experience... whether that's a 5K or an IM marathon. It's miserable to go out like rabbit and then have hundreds of turtles fly past you on the back half of a race. It is much more enjoyable (and faster) to cruise through the first half, start to hurt for the next quarter, and then dig deep for that final quarter... all without slowing at all... or perhaps even speeding up a hair. I'd suggest you run a half marathon with a more experienced (and faster) friend. You don't get a watch or a HR monitor or anything... the rule is you run next to your friend no matter what. You're friend will choose a pace based on a recent 5 or 10K time of yours and then using the McMillan calculator. You're allowed to ditch your friend with 5K to go if you still feel good. Then report back on how you did, how you felt, etc. |
| 2011-02-22 10:06 AM in reply to: #3366786 |
Expert 1164 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread JoshKaptur - 2011-02-22 10:36 AM 15step - 2011-02-22 10:07 AM I guess I need to at least read this BarryP approach. I notice that always go out way to hard on long runs, and pay for it later. Im talking 7:00-7:30 for the first few miles, then slow down to 8:30 or so. I end up exhausted and sore, which I know is a big no-no. I suppose there is no real solution to the issue, besides being very aware of my pace and going slower than I feel I should. BarryP is mostly about run training, not race execution... though he does note that part of the reason he is training the long course athlete the way he does is that they need endurance, not speed, on race day. This might sound harsh, but I hope that's okay. Your pacing problems don't sound like training problems... they sound like discipline/experience problems. I promise you that if you are in tune with your body and know what pace you can hold for the ENTIRE race, and then run about that pace for the first half of the race, you'll have a much more positive race experience... whether that's a 5K or an IM marathon. It's miserable to go out like rabbit and then have hundreds of turtles fly past you on the back half of a race. It is much more enjoyable (and faster) to cruise through the first half, start to hurt for the next quarter, and then dig deep for that final quarter... all without slowing at all... or perhaps even speeding up a hair. I'd suggest you run a half marathon with a more experienced (and faster) friend. You don't get a watch or a HR monitor or anything... the rule is you run next to your friend no matter what. You're friend will choose a pace based on a recent 5 or 10K time of yours and then using the McMillan calculator. You're allowed to ditch your friend with 5K to go if you still feel good. Then report back on how you did, how you felt, etc. Not harsh at all. I would not be asking this stuff if I was not aware that I had an issue with the way I train (I have no issue with my coach at all, just the way I train/run/bike/etc). I can agree with you that I probably have an experience/discipline issue. I have not been doing this for too long, and even at that, I come from a background of ZERO athletic experience. I didn't do squat before this, so learning my body and how I work has been a long and sometimes aggravating process. Patience is not my strong point, so in a way it has been an uphill battle on both a physical and a psychological level. Should I be attempting to pretty much negative split every run? I have a 1/2 coming up in about a month, so I will try to go with a pace group on this one. |
| 2011-02-22 10:13 AM in reply to: #3366404 |
| New user 35 | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread I Concur Matt. It’s almost as if she's naked without some 808s, or maybe a 404 in the Front and 808 in the back. I think I'm going to rent some wheels for 70.3 CA and IMCDA. I’m trying to find someone here locally to rent from but can’t find anyone. This is Colorado I know someone does. Colorado Multipsort in Boulder rents wheels!!! |
| 2011-02-22 12:11 PM in reply to: #3366764 |
Pro 3883 Woodstock,GA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread JoshKaptur - 2011-02-22 10:28 AM I agree with the point of being "fresh" when you get off the bike. Of course you won't be as fresh as if you were running a stand-alone marathon, but I think proper bike pacing means that you can run within 20-30 minutes of the pace you could have run an open marathon. People who run their IM marathon 1 or more hours slower than what they were in shape to run an open marathon almost certainly overbaked the bike... and this happens to the majority of IMers on any given sunday. So that's my definition of fresh... for the first half of the run you should be needing to force yourself to slow down, not musting all you can to barely move forward. If you aren't there, you biked faster than your bike fitness warranted... and regardless of your run fitness you are going to fall apart (sooner rather than alter if your run fitness isn't where it should be). The numbers power numbers are irrelevant (just like my 50 mpw is irrelevant without a bigger picture of the athlete)... 250 may be way too easy for someone and way too hard for someone else. did I mention PACING? Preach on brother! Pacing (the other half of race execution being nutrition) will make or break your IM (any race, really... it's just that if you mess it up in the IM you usually realize that with a long way to go... and then the end is ugly). And proper pacing is specific to an individual athlete's fitness. It's pointless to want to run a sub-4 marathon if you aren't in shape for that... you'll start out at that pace and then run 5 hours when you crack. Likewise it's pointless to want to hold 20 mph when all of your training rides indicate that 20mph is closer to your tempo pace. It's so easy to set a time goal and then train towards that... when what we should do is train based on our present fitness and then set our time goals a few weeks before race day. I am going to take issue with this....the power numbers are indeed relavent. If you have a power meter and you aren't using it as a pacing tool then all you really have is an expensive bike computer. It has been my experience through analyzing literally hundreds of power files and through published and anecdotal evidence that the 300TSS (IF .70-75) is right where the majority of athletes can and should attempt to ride an IM bike leg in order to run well off the bike. Of course those numbers are an average (guideline) and just like anything there are going to be those athletes that are able to ride harder and those that aren't able to ride that hard. I contend though with proper training on the bike most athletes are capable of riding within 10-15 TSS points on either side of the 300TSS guide line.
Just a few other observations and you guys can take this for what it is worth: 1.) The "bike hard/run easy" philosophy- I don't necessarily disagree with this as a training strategy. What you have to understand is that training load is determined by duration x intensity, so on the bike your are adding load through intensity where as on the run you are adding load through volume.The converse would be true as well (i.e. bike easy/run hard) as a matter of fact Troy Jacobsen did exactly that and ran a sub-3 hour marathon at IMAZ. Are you exposing yourself to injury by running harder....maybe, but there is nothing wrong with doing harder 1 hour runs during training. 2.) There have been some questions about nutrition so let me give a bit of basic advice. As a general rule the average athlete can take in 250-300 calories an hour on the bike and 100-150 calories an hour on the run. Everyone is different and you may be able to take in more or less on either leg. The key is to come up with a strategy, practice it over and over, and then have a backup plan if that one fails. 3.) Those of you who have coaches on here need to be asking your coach these questions. That is what you pay him/her for and they should be giving you guidance on every aspect of your training. If you trust your coach then do what they tell you to and you will be fine, if you don't trust your coach then you need to find a new one or go out on your own. I am not saying blindly follow your plan and don't ask questions, but don't second guess everything and try to get answers on an internet message board. |
| 2011-02-22 12:38 PM in reply to: #3006331 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Thanks for the clarification... we are actually in agreement on power... I should have stated that someone else's power numbers are irrelevant. I'm in favor of riding with a power meter (though nothing trumps RPE to me) to help you ride at the appropriate effort based on your previous tested results. I also agree (and have posted about) training stress = volume x intensity, with the ability to manipulate either one to achieve the same training stress. In theory, then, you could have a fairly low overall volume and lots of intensity and be ready for long course (Endurance Nation takes this approach). With respect to the run, it is my experience that those people who have breakthrough experiences after a block of shorter/harder training have a previous endurance base that most people never achieve. It would be a mistake for most of us to look at the previous 6-12 months of their training (where they went HARD) and think we should train that way. Rather, we should look at the previous 2-3 years... where almost universally they built up a big base and then included a block of tempo and other speedwork focused training in the months leading up to their taper. |
| 2011-02-22 2:51 PM in reply to: #3366854 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Daniel I welcome your questions so fire away. Having said that, I have to agree with Brett that you are paying for a coach so you want to run a lot of stuff by him. Make him earn it. He's well respected and I think you will find him a wealth of info for you just like Brett is for his athletes I suspect. However, don't shy away from message boards, provided you know that you get what you pay for here (even though I really dig what I read here on this thread). I love the negative split concept very much when training for long course. Its how Shanks taught me IM mary running discipline (finally, I hope). I also like the BarryP plan AND the FIRST program (Run Less and Run Fast) so I struggle a bit trying to find the place for high volume and high intensity. Thats where Shanks comes into play for me. We are building training load in bike and run especially (the importance of the swim we already disagree about here to some degree) but its not all volume on either side. And its not Bike hard and Run slow either. I get some intensity (not a lot) on the run and some on the bike, but I also do alot of mid and upper zone training on the bike and running when its able to be fit in. I think that makes me a better athlete and more prepared. Brett, I still think you are quite a bit off about the 300 TSS but I dont have my Coggan power book with the table at work (I think the rough IM bike target for me was <275). Pair the TssSwim score with that 300 and you are already having an "epic" day before you get to the run, where most IM dreams go to die. Even you in another thread have said that you simply need to conserve as much energy as possible for the run. Running 70-75% normalized watts of ftp is going to hurt most age groupers if they are properly tested for ftp. Have you or one of your athetes ever "run well" at an IM mary with a TSS of 300? I would think the best runs are set up with the lowest TSS's/IFs. My knowledge base and experience is much less than yours so I'll take your word for it and assume I am the outlier if you have. I'm not talking elites: I'm talking hard working or average working age groupers. |
| 2011-02-22 3:40 PM in reply to: #3366871 |
Veteran 262 Clarksvile | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Culgray - 2011-02-22 9:13 AM I Concur Matt. It’s almost as if she's naked without some 808s, or maybe a 404 in the Front and 808 in the back. I think I'm going to rent some wheels for 70.3 CA and IMCDA. I’m trying to find someone here locally to rent from but can’t find anyone. This is Colorado I know someone does. Colorado Multipsort in Boulder rents wheels!!! Thanks Culgray, I just called them. |
| 2011-02-22 5:31 PM in reply to: #3006331 |
Veteran 490 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Great advice guys. I don't have an official coach, just a bunch of IMers telling me I should do it this way or that way. I use the IronFit book as my basis, but I've really done my own schedule since week 1. Probably too much. Too fast. Too hard. I've been lucky and no injuries to date. My biggest fear and what I don't want to do is to give back a ton of time on the run. Every single IMer that is "coaching me" flunked the run portion in my opinion. A few at mile 13. Most at mile 16-17. If you do the math on what a 10-15 minute pace (versus 9 minute) does to your overall time for potentially 10+ miles on the run, it does bring things in perspective. After my HIM in mid-April, my plan shows about 5 rides of 5-6 hours. Most of them are followed with a 1 hour Z2 run. I'm thinking of alternating two of the runs longer (say, 1:45-2:00) so my body gets use to the longer duration. Injury risk aside, do you think this strategy does more harm then good? |
| 2011-02-22 7:14 PM in reply to: #3367691 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Hey man, BryanCD who often writes good stuff on here was not keen on long bricks like that. His reasoning when someone asked about it was that it just beats you down needlessly. I am not a KQ like he is but I will tell you that I had my longest brick of about 100/10 as a race rehearsal before IMFL. The pacing on the run was easy but the bike was a bit uptempo within zone 2. It was a great confidence builder, time to test out pacing and nutrition, and opportunity to eat and drink wihtout guilt after. 10 miles at about 9 mins pace was 1.5 hours so that might work for you! Incidentally, the closer we get, the more posting I am doing. I think that means I am a go for race day. Time to buy my flights, tribike transport, and rental car I suppose. |
| 2011-02-22 7:18 PM in reply to: #3367691 |
Pro 3883 Woodstock,GA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread 3Aims - 2011-02-22 6:31 PM Great advice guys. I don't have an official coach, just a bunch of IMers telling me I should do it this way or that way. I use the IronFit book as my basis, but I've really done my own schedule since week 1. Probably too much. Too fast. Too hard. I've been lucky and no injuries to date. My biggest fear and what I don't want to do is to give back a ton of time on the run. Every single IMer that is "coaching me" flunked the run portion in my opinion. A few at mile 13. Most at mile 16-17. If you do the math on what a 10-15 minute pace (versus 9 minute) does to your overall time for potentially 10+ miles on the run, it does bring things in perspective. After my HIM in mid-April, my plan shows about 5 rides of 5-6 hours. Most of them are followed with a 1 hour Z2 run. I'm thinking of alternating two of the runs longer (say, 1:45-2:00) so my body gets use to the longer duration. Injury risk aside, do you think this strategy does more harm then good?
There is no reason (IMO) to run more than an hour off the bike. If you are properly trained to run the marathon AND you have properly paced the bike AND you have executed your nutrition plan then you should be in good shape. What I use the bricks for during my coaching is to teach/refine pacing strategy and nutrition strategy. You are going to find out in a hurry (less than an hour) if you overcooked the bike. After that point your run fitness is going to take over and provided you paced the bike correctly you should be confident going into race day. The biggest brick my athletes do are a 5hr bike/1hr run and that is the last big workout before the taper starts. |
| 2011-02-22 8:16 PM in reply to: #3367439 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Does anyone have a great packing/checklist for IM? And Josh, 5 wt or 3 wt? |
| 2011-02-22 10:58 PM in reply to: #3367908 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread pga_mike: i have a packing list I modified for the last two IMs. I got it from AbbieR I think. Its a great start for male or female. email me at gayer 53 at msn dot com if you want me to forward it to you. there are plenty of others on the net if you google around too. Bear in mind you will need to edit for your own needs. In tri like life, I like to be over-prepared. bring both the 3 and 5 wt. at IMAZ 09 my seat post cracked 2 days before the event and it was a proprietary litespeed seat post. fortunately, i came prepared with a spare and lived happily ever after. On a similar vein, back to longer bricks or bigger volume, Brett/rocketman and I will have to agree to disagree on that one too (in a respectful way Brett-you are well known in these parts for your encyclopedic knowledge base and coaching wisdom). I am big on volume (as well as/not in lieu of some intensity) as a prevention (of long course race meltdown) or performance strategy. Check my logs and his this year for example so far. We have roughly equivalent swim time, but I have nearly double the bike miles and 50% more run miles. I'd have loads more if Shanks wasn't holding me back and I didn't lose a week for testing already. There is no magic potion per se in IM. Its all about logging the work (long and hard to the degree possible, targeting the areas that you will get the best ROI, etc). He or you may have more stuff going on outside of tri, but my point is, you need to build it now or probably suffer later. You choose.... |
| 2011-02-23 11:41 AM in reply to: #3006331 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread I took a 5wt. But I think you'd be fine on a 3wt. I was casting small streamers for bulls at one point, and pretty big hoppers at another point. If you have both go with both. If that's not an option, go with 5 imho. If you only have 3, though, don't sweat it. Add me to the camp that would strongly advocate against a 2 hour run after a 6 hour bike. Injury risk aside? Why would you want to put that aside? My guess is that you won't get injured on that workout... but you might on one of your workouts the following days. The bigger risk will be recovery cost. An 8 hour workout will no doubt compromise the next several days of working out. 3 4 days of solid training is better than 1 day of epic traning and then 3 days of recovery. I also agree that if your bike fitness is there, and your run fitness is there, then you don't need to worry about bike+run fitness. In fact, I never ran more than 2 miles off my bike during my IM prep (other than in races). I'm a believer that there is more benefit in a good run and a good bike as independent workouts, then in combining the two and compromising one of them. I also get very nervous about running on tired legs and injury risk. Any bricks I did were to sneak in a few miles of running (for greater overall volume), not because I thought there was any physiological benefit to running off the bike in training. In fact, when scheduling requires I run and bike together, I usually do it in that order... run first (on fresh legs) and then bike (on somewhat tired legs, where the worst consequence is probably a crappy bike ride, not an injury). Oh, and 3Aims... PS... here are my run splits from last IM: 8:05, 7:25, 7:48, 7:45, 7:35, 7:29, 7:42, 7:40, 8:07, 7:57, 8:02, 7:46, 7:35, 7:22, 7:38, 7:38, 7:48, 9:30, 8:54, 8:17, 8:32, 9:07, 8:06, 9:12, 9:37, 7:18. I fully admit I went out a little too hard, and paid for it. That 9:30 and 9:37 were cramps that stopped me in my tracks (I couldn't walk). I believe they came from running too hard for what my fitness was. The rest of the slower miles (over 8 minutes) were me being conservative because I knew that falling apart would cost me far more. In retrospect, I think I biked perfectly, but got caught up in how good I felt on the start of the run. I should have backed off to 7:50's or so for that first 8 miles... I think I would have been able to hold that pace for the entire race if I had been smart. That would have equaled about a 3:22 instead of a 3:32. I was beating myself up for that mistake pretty good until I realized that I missed Kona by more than 10 minutes. Everyone was trying to comfort me by saying that "everyone" falls apart at the end. They were right in one respect... my meltdown pales in comparison to what most of the field does. But at the very pointy end of each age group, you will almost always find pretty evenly split marathons if you check the results. Edited by JoshKaptur 2011-02-23 12:07 PM |
| 2011-02-23 11:51 AM in reply to: #3368063 |
Expert 694 WA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread phatknot - 2011-02-22 8:58 AM In tri like life, I like to be over-prepared. bring both the 3 and 5 wt. at IMAZ 09 my seat post cracked 2 days before the event and it was a proprietary litespeed seat post. fortunately, i came prepared with a spare and lived happily ever after. What is 3 wt and 5 wt? You brought a spare seat post to the race??!! Now that is being prepared! |
| 2011-02-23 11:54 AM in reply to: #3368734 |
Expert 1164 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread JoshKaptur - 2011-02-23 12:41 PM I took a 5wt. But I think you'd be fine on a 3wt. I was casting small streamers for bulls at one point, and pretty big hoppers at another point. If you have both go with both. If that's not an option, go with 3. Add me to the camp that would strongly advocate against a 2 hour run after a 6 hour bike. Injury risk aside? Why would you want to put that aside? My guess is that you won't get injured on that workout... but you might on one of your workouts the following days. The bigger risk will be recovery cost. An 8 hour workout will no doubt compromise the next several days of working out. 3 4 days of solid training is better than 1 day of epic traning and then 3 days of recovery. I also agree that if your bike fitness is there, and your run fitness is there, then you don't need to worry about bike+run fitness. In fact, I never ran more than 2 miles off my bike during my IM prep (other than in races). I'm a believer that there is more benefit in a good run and a good bike as independent workouts, then in combining the two and compromising one of them. I also get very nervous about running on tired legs and injury risk. Any bricks I did were to sneak in a few miles of running (for greater overall volume), not because I thought there was any physiological benefit to running off the bike in training. In fact, when scheduling requires I run and bike together, I usually do it in that order... run first (on fresh legs) and then bike (on somewhat tired legs, where the worst consequence is probably a crappy bike ride, not an injury). The only reason I am against the 2 run/6 bike is because I simply have no desire to go that long in one day. Call me lazy but, even in Ironman training, how the hell am I supposed to have Sunday Funday if I have to train like that? :P Just kidding, though I do have to agree with the above sentiment. I know myself, and basically if I were to go that long in one day, I feel like my training would be severely impacted for the next few days. The most I ever did for IMKY was a 5.5 hr bike and a 45 min brick after. I felt great after the session, but had no desire to do it again. Any more, and I feel that my next few days would have been affected. |
| 2011-02-23 12:01 PM in reply to: #3368746 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread RunRene - 2011-02-23 12:51 PM phatknot - 2011-02-22 8:58 AM In tri like life, I like to be over-prepared. bring both the 3 and 5 wt. at IMAZ 09 my seat post cracked 2 days before the event and it was a proprietary litespeed seat post. fortunately, i came prepared with a spare and lived happily ever after. What is 3 wt and 5 wt? You brought a spare seat post to the race??!! Now that is being prepared! flyrods. |
| 2011-02-23 1:34 PM in reply to: #3368063 |
Expert 839 Portland, OR | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread phatknot - 2011-02-22 8:58 PM pga_mike: i have a packing list I modified for the last two IMs. I got it from AbbieR I think. Its a great start for male or female. email me at gayer 53 at msn dot com if you want me to forward it to you. there are plenty of others on the net if you google around too. Bear in mind you will need to edit for your own needs. In tri like life, I like to be over-prepared. bring both the 3 and 5 wt. at IMAZ 09 my seat post cracked 2 days before the event and it was a proprietary litespeed seat post. fortunately, i came prepared with a spare and lived happily ever after. On a similar vein, back to longer bricks or bigger volume, Brett/rocketman and I will have to agree to disagree on that one too (in a respectful way Brett-you are well known in these parts for your encyclopedic knowledge base and coaching wisdom). I am big on volume (as well as/not in lieu of some intensity) as a prevention (of long course race meltdown) or performance strategy. Check my logs and his this year for example so far. We have roughly equivalent swim time, but I have nearly double the bike miles and 50% more run miles. I'd have loads more if Shanks wasn't holding me back and I didn't lose a week for testing already. There is no magic potion per se in IM. Its all about logging the work (long and hard to the degree possible, targeting the areas that you will get the best ROI, etc). He or you may have more stuff going on outside of tri, but my point is, you need to build it now or probably suffer later. You choose.... Too funny! I think Abbie might have gotten it from me originally. I was pretty anal on the lists when prepping for my 1st IM. |
| 2011-02-23 1:37 PM in reply to: #3368734 |
Veteran 490 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread JoshKaptur - 2011-02-23 11:41 AM IOh, and 3Aims... PS... here are my run splits from last IM: 8:05, 7:25, 7:48, 7:45, 7:35, 7:29, 7:42, 7:40, 8:07, 7:57, 8:02, 7:46, 7:35, 7:22, 7:38, 7:38, 7:48, 9:30, 8:54, 8:17, 8:32, 9:07, 8:06, 9:12, 9:37, 7:18.  ......IMpressive. |
| 2011-02-23 3:48 PM in reply to: #3369029 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread 3Aims - 2011-02-23 2:37 PM JoshKaptur - 2011-02-23 11:41 AM IOh, and 3Aims... PS... here are my run splits from last IM: 8:05, 7:25, 7:48, 7:45, 7:35, 7:29, 7:42, 7:40, 8:07, 7:57, 8:02, 7:46, 7:35, 7:22, 7:38, 7:38, 7:48, 9:30, 8:54, 8:17, 8:32, 9:07, 8:06, 9:12, 9:37, 7:18. ......IMpressive. Maybe... but by my math, above, I likely should have finished 10 minutres faster if I had paced the early miles better. Those last miles may be mostly "fast" but they actually are a big dropoff from what I had been doing. In other words, I suspect I would have averaged 30 seconds per mile faster for the entire race if I would have run the first half of the race 20 seconds per mile slower. I lined them up like that because it was a two loop course. So you can see I ran mile 25 almost 2 minutes per mile slower than I ran mile 12 (the same stretch of road). Oops! Likewise mile 24 and mile 11... 1:15ish slower. Several others pairings were over a minute. And that equals bad pacing. Edited by JoshKaptur 2011-02-23 4:11 PM |
| 2011-02-23 7:18 PM in reply to: #3006331 |
Pro 3883 Woodstock,GA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread You still had a hell of a race Josh especially for a first timer. Pacing IMO is the hardest thing for an IM newbie to master (heck it's hard for those of us who have done multiple IM's). You just can't simulate racing in training and for the most part you just don't know how your body is going to react until you just do it. Don't beat yourself up over 10 minutes, there are many people out there that would trade IM runs with you in a heartbeat.
Edited by Rocket Man 2011-02-23 7:18 PM |
| 2011-02-24 1:10 AM in reply to: #3323781 |
Extreme Veteran 494 Olympia, WA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread citaltfort - 2011-01-26 7:43 PM My CDA plans were set back a bit today. I stepped into a hole during my morning run and tore two ligaments in my ankle. The doctor thinks I have plenty of time to recover and still do CDA as long as I'm a good patient. Two weeks in a boot then we'll evaluate next steps after that. I'm actually very good at following recovery rules so that part is ok. Brad Hey everybody - Well, my CdA is over before it started. A bit after this original post, the doctor helped me understand one of the ligaments was actually ruptured (completely torn) instead of just partially torn. I wasn't exactly understanding everything that first day. Fortunately, it didn't require surgery, but that put me on a much longer recovery timeline. After more consultations with the doctor and the physical therapist, I finally had to pull the plug. There just isn't enough time to recover correctly and put in enough training to complete an ironman in June without risking full recovery for the ankle or the rest of my body, for that matter. It's frustrating, but it is what it is. I'll still be at the race to cheer on my cousin, who is participating. I have kept reading this board to see how it's going for you all and I plan to keep doing the same until the race. I look forward to hearing how it all turns out for you and I hope to see you cross the finish line. Good luck to you all! Cheers, Brad |
| 2011-02-24 6:09 AM in reply to: #3369817 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Sorry to hear that Brad. Thats crushing news. Smart decision though. There will be other chances when you are fit and healthy. |
| 2011-02-24 6:22 AM in reply to: #3006331 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread Bummer Brad. It stinks to have an IM taken from an injury like that... where it was just bad luck and you can't really even blame yourself for bad training or anything. Same thing happened to me in April 09 while training for a July 09 IM, and I now believe that catastrophic injury was the trigger for being better than I ever imagined by July 10. For me, it meant I lost almost all my fitness and had to start at square one... but I started completely injury free (while broken bones and road rash were healing, so were all the other little aches and pains I had been trying to train through). |
| 2011-02-24 10:50 AM in reply to: #3369817 |
Expert 694 WA | Subject: RE: Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread citaltfort - 2011-02-23 11:10 AM Hey everybody - Well, my CdA is over before it started. A bit after this original post, the doctor helped me understand one of the ligaments was actually ruptured (completely torn) instead of just partially torn. I wasn't exactly understanding everything that first day. Fortunately, it didn't require surgery, but that put me on a much longer recovery timeline. After more consultations with the doctor and the physical therapist, I finally had to pull the plug. There just isn't enough time to recover correctly and put in enough training to complete an ironman in June without risking full recovery for the ankle or the rest of my body, for that matter. It's frustrating, but it is what it is. I'll still be at the race to cheer on my cousin, who is participating. I have kept reading this board to see how it's going for you all and I plan to keep doing the same until the race. I look forward to hearing how it all turns out for you and I hope to see you cross the finish line. Good luck to you all! Cheers, Brad BUMMER!!! Sorry to hear that Brad! Hope you recover quickly and come back STRONGER! |
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