Baowolf's Beginner Banquet -Sorry all tables are full no room.. (Page 57)

I use a cyclopse 2 fluid trainer... I think thats it.  Yes I am commited to the bike program as long as I don't pull a muscle doing it.  Tonight was 20 miles with 15 x 30 seconds at LT 30 seconds recovery for the highlights. 

I think Carol ment that it would be a surprise for you to not be running the race even if you had to crawl... so volunteering is a different.   

I really wouldn't sign up for 2 IM's in a year until you know how you recover.  I thought I had the base to recover more quickly this year with 3 IM's under my belt.  I was wrong.  Take a full month off, recover well and build slowly.  I wanted to do that century because it was free and I wanted to race the half mary with my  son.  Too much too soon.  Oh well, we don't learn all the lessons the easy way.  Nothing a little time won't fix.  I try to keep my marathon and IM 6 months appart so I can recover from each.  They both take about 5 months of building 1 month to recover.  Oh well time for bed.  This week at work and next will be very crazy busy.  I will actually be flat out at work until Christmas. 

Yep Dennis, all in good fun.  I was afraid your self-professed bad guy image was getting tarnished by all that volunteering !  And of course I'm morally superior -- after all I'm female! 

Steve, thanks for the trainer info.  Seems that KK or Cyclops fluid is the way to go.  Hope the work/life balance doesn't stay out of whack for too long! 

Karen, how are the bridges treating you?

I thought you were going to say you were morally superior because you were from Texas.

Redman full would be pushing it too much for a novice for sure.  I'd lose fitness during the recovery and barely have enough time to regain it before it was taper time again.  That's if I recovered fine.  I of course need to just worry about TX and keeping goal creep at bay.  I can do a half if I really get the urge this summer. 

Goal creep is a horrible thing.  It's trying to kill me.  In a little over a month I've went from: "Let's just finish this in 14 hours" to "I bet I can do it in 13 after training" to "I've got to finish before sun down." to "My swim is going to go down at least 10 more minutes" to "All this bike training is paying off I can feel it.  I could pull off a 20+ bike split" to "a strong bike = good marathon.  I'm definitely going to be sub-12:00".  The good thing is I know I'm going to race by the numbers using the power meter and HRM. 

The more I learn about the power meter, the more excited I get.  I now know I'm going easy on my easy days and hard on my hard days.  Pulled a few 350+W intervals last night doing Spinervals Hillacious.  On my endurance rides I keep it around 140W for the ride.  I'm feeling great lately and I think I'm training a little smarter.  I'm doing lots of frequency right now trying to get a feel for what days are harder than others so I can move stuff around.  I used to long ride Saturday then long run Sunday, now I'm long running on Wednesday to put plenty of time between the two.

Gotta go.  A pregnant girl from work is out in her car smoking and I have to go to the accountants office so we can bad mouth her behind her back.  Working in Arkansas is always entertaining.

Oh and Carol, only amateurs use cycle trainers, real cyclist ride rollers.  You want to be a real cyclist don't you?

If I had it to do over and more money, I think I might splurge on the KK Rock n' Roll(video).  Well to be honest unlimited funds would put me on either a CompuTrainer(0% financiang for 1 year available) or a TACX VR Trainer.  I also know of a place where you can get almost every TACX VR course for free by just illegally downloading them.  (Since I am not a woman, I do not condone nor discourage piracy.  Damn you 'Y' chromosome.)

Alright so rollers take some getting used to.  Folks fall a lot before they get them down.  Have a lot of room for falls not walls and furniture and such. 

And going sub 12:00:00 on a first IM is not easy unless you are genetically gifted.  If your HIM is not sub 5:30 you arent going to do it.  You should be doing open marathons around 3:15:00 or faster, open century rids around 18.5 mph and swimming well ya you can suck at swimming 2:00 per /100.  Now sub 13:00:00 would be a good goal for your first. Not raining on a sub 12 goal just sayin It took me 3 shots at it.  Staying injury free at the high vollume is tough at times.

It is usually a good thing to hit a HIM 7 weeks out form an IM. Sprints, olys and half marys wont set back your training much at all.  A HIM will set you back 2 weeks. 

I know sub-12 is out of my reach barring some miracle like an earthquake the week before turning the bike ride all downhill.  I was just posting about how goals seem to keep changing every week for a race 6 months out.

Oh I would love to do a HIM 7 weeks out.  I think I can arrange a mock half with the "lake guy" here.  I just need to use the lake for the swim (probably no problem), I know plenty of bike routes from his house so that's simple, and just do his 5k neighborhood rout 4x and we got it.  He's a club member so getting the others to participate is also possible.  If I twisted it up and made it a metric IM (2.4k, 112k, 26k) then that might spark a little more attention from folks.  Who knows.

Sick kids screwing up the plans.  Moving swim lesson to Friday this week.  Home with a vomiting princess.  Good times.

Oh, now I get it!  Can't overcome me in terms of moral (female) or intellectual (I AM a Texan) superiority, so you're resorting to this.  Let's see, we have 4 dogs and a cat.  Can you imagine what an ugly scene could take place?  The only roller I will have is a foam one!

I know what you mean about goal creep.  Plugged my 5K time into McMillan and it said a sub 2 hour half mary is possible (I know, given proper training for the distance).  Did 13.1 on my own last week in 2:12 without really pushing it, although it included a pit stop to refill sports drink @ the grocery store.  Either way, I think it's good to dream and see that future version of yourself.

I just think a Youtube video of you on rollers for the first time would be excellent.  I need something to make me laugh every time I'm feeling down.  Didn't you almost die in a construction zone recently? I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

I did my weekly long run this morning at 4:30.  6 big ones.  Wasn't sure I was going to survive it.

I'm disappointed that I've had to push back this week's swim lesson.  I was looking forward to it.

Carol, you can totally go sub 2:00:00 in a half mary. 

I hear you on the fitness thing.... when did a 10 mile run become long?  That used to be midrange, oh well. 

By the way holidays make for difficulty planning training.  Do what you can and let go of the rest. 

Swam 4,250 in 95 minutes straight.  Not a fast as I would like, 85 would have been great, but happy with the result anyway.  My first 10 laps were in the !:05 range while my last 10 were in the 1:08 range.  Not bad if you ask me.

About 15 minutes in about 40 high school swimmers showed up with their coach.  they took the 4 lanes to the left of me.  For the rest of the swim I had more chop in the pool than I've probably ever had in open water.  I need to remember to swim with them once a month.

Carol, I take it this has been your best year as far as racing and fitness.  Was this your first serious year or are years of hard work paying off.  I know you raced some in the past but not sure how much.  Sub-2 hour HM is a big milestone for most runners it seems.

Steve, how is Jorge's plan coming along?  Do you feel stronger on the bike already?  I really think my trainer time is paying off.  Even my typical trainer speed has risen quite a bit since I started riding it.  Next week is a rest week and I'm excited to see how my TT test comes out.

Today was an over-achiever day.  Over 5 hours training.  Mostly because it worked out that way because I had the time.  Here's a rundown of how I did it.  Long run and then hour of weights this morning.  Rare weekday long swim opportunity so I took it.  Didn't get my 1.5 hour aerobic bike in last night so I did it today.  I probably stayed aerobic for 97% of all my training.  Time for bed.  Another decent day tomorrow.  A.M swim, lunch short 2 mile run and a 2-hour long aerobic bike.

I'm getting excited at the thought of going out for a group ride Saturday morning.  I've only had the tri bike out twice since I got it.  Only once with the PowerTap and never since I've learned how to use the PowerTap.  I want to start applying all this knowledge and see how it plays out in real life.

Overall as you can tell, I'm just excited and more serious about training than I've ever been.  I also know I'm being more conscious of going slow not doing anything too stupid - like 5 hours of training in a single day.  Some people will never learn.  They should listen to me and take it easy.

Nice triple up day you had Dennis!  And that was a monster swim.  Funny about the kids in the pool.  Maybe you can ask them to jump over into your lane occasionally and beat you up a little.  You're going to go into your IM swim with confidence.

Yeah, this is not my first rodeo with running, but it is my first year to be more consistent, seek out the right resources, and get a little smarter.  Did the gym rat thing and a couple of 5K's in 2006.  Then in 2007, signed up for the 1/2 marathon training program via the local running store.  Did their program over the summer, and then my hip joint gave out 3 weeks out from my first 1/2.  Could not lift my leg in front of me and had to call hubby to come get me.  That was pretty much the end of running for 2007, and I forfeited the entry fees already paid for two half mary's. 

Recovered, restarted running in 2008 and did a few 5K's and a 10K.  Faded on anything resembling consitent training, and then a friend talked me into doing the Cowtown 1/2 in early 2009.  To repay that, I talked her into doing our first triathlon in Oct 2009.  Ouch, tear in my right middle arch...get (poorly fitted) orthotics from a non-running quacky podiatrist.  Now running just hurts, so I don't do much of it...again.  Same friend tells me we need to do Cowtown 1/2 again Feb 2010....limp through due to poor training, IT band issues (though I didn't know what it was at the time), and crappy orthotics. 

Love running, but start to think maybe this is just not meant to be.  Lay off again, decide to try and be content just walking the dog and smelling the roses.  Friend wants to do Cowtown 1/2 again Feb 2011, sigh...really?  I'm at my all time high weight....ever.  Start late, undertrain, more IT band issues, limping finish.  Yes, insanity: doing the same expecting different results.  Which brings us to 2011, where I decide ENOUGH.  Hey, maybe it's time to seek out some help (duhhh) and see what I'm really capable of.  Found an awesome triathloning podiatrist, got better orthotics, more neutral shoes, and a recommendation for a sports chiropractor to help w/ IT band issues.  Bought a bike, started triathlon training and working on bringing the weight down.  Found this awesome mentor group, and you guys know the rest of the 2011 story.   

Long answer to a short question, but hard for me to sum up in a few words. I guess the short version would be...run, do stupid, hurt, rest too long, repeat.  So now struggling with a tweaky glute and feeling pretty unbalanced on the run.  Will she do stupid again or seek help?  I'm going to see how the rest of this week goes, and if not better by Monday, back to the sports chiropractor.   

Carol-Bridge work is going OK.  It hurts going up and hurst coming down.  ISn't that suppose to be the easy part?  I try to let the "hill take me" but I fear I'll tumble!

Dennis-gosld are what keep me going.  I guess I just don't set mine as high as you. And great swim!  I have a hard time when the high school swimteam comes as well.  Choppy water, constant whistle blowing. Annoying.  I try to be finished before they get there.

Steve-10 miles are still mid runs for me.  I have a half marathon next weekend, and plan to do a second marathon in February.  I plan to do olympic distance tri's next season, so when would you suggest I really "start" back to tri training? Right now I am barely doing anything other than running.  -Karen

Carol, do rest! Don't do "stupid". You may recall my story in brief, been running on and off since high school.  Trained and paid big bucks to run the Disney marathon, not once but twice, and was injured twice from not listening to my body.  I had a bad stress fracture the first time in a boot for 4 months, the second time had achellis tendonitis, with the so familiar boot on again.  I ate that regisrtation fee both times, and let me tell you Disney is NOT cheap.  I think that is why this mary try I was overly cautious and got into tri training-which I love. SO hang in there, but do rest, listen to your body! There will always be more races. But you don't wan to run the crapy.  Rest so you can do your best. That's my 2 cents.

Looking to do anther marathon and started looking at tris for next season.  Now I wish I had bought a wet suit this past summer when the prices were down! I'll have to wait until next summer because I refuse to get into water under 75 ish with out a wet suit. -Karen

Dennis, don't care what you say about yourself, you are a nice guy.  Thanks for the encouragement and reading through all that.  Hope you have fun on your group ride this weekend and feel like a monster on the bike!

Karen, I didn't recall that you had made race "donations" as well.  Ugh, that is so frustrating!!  Betting the time in the boot was even worse than the $$'s.  Quite a comeback you have made, and makes your marathon finish (and start!) even sweeter.  I agree with you about staying healthier with balanced tri training vs. just running.  If I recall, you're pretty good on the bike.  Do you enjoy it as much as running?

Hey Steve, how's the cycling program going?  Yes, the holiday season is approaching, complete with all the additional things that get heaped on top of normal life.  In some ways, working out becomes even more important so we don't totally scrooge out on our families!

I'm taking today off as recommended, and hubby was more than happy to massage the sore spot for me last night.  Already had planned on 14 tomorrow, with compatible running pal.  But if I'm lopsided after a few miles, I'll call it a day and enjoy a nice walk back to the clubhouse solo.       

Still pretty busy at work, working Vets day atm.  I wouldn't say I am any stronger on the bike after 2-3 weeks.. after 13,000 miles on my bike it is going to take more than a couple weeks to get me faster.  Mostly it just makes me tired for my runs.  There was a nice 5x 30 sec LT followed by 4 x 5:00 LT as part of a 20 mile trainer ride on Wed.  It has me mostly going shorter and harder for now.  I am still trying to get my running back up to 35 miles a week while getting in the intensity on the bike rides 4x a week.  Then I can start adding in the swim, starting with 50 % drills 50% swim.   

My ran a 18:58 5k yesterday at regionals for cross country.  If he sticks with it he will start beating me very soon.  That puts him within 22 seconds of my 5k time.  It will hurt to give up braggin rights to my son.  He wants to step up this spring and do a 10 miler race with me.  It is a very mean race in that the first 60 finishers are all sub 6:00 mpm pace and the winner is often sub 5:00 pace.  It makes it hard to stay bike focused when he is catching me on the run... oh well. 

Carol, foam roal that your legs, take a hot bath, don't stretch if they are painful, but once feeling good get into a steady stretch routine.  Walking will maintain most of your fitness for running if not painful. 

Dennis glad you are powering the workouts, when does your IM plan start? 

Karen, you can stay run focused untill about 16 weeks before your first race.  Ya you can cut it closer, but 16 weeks is a nice way to ease back into it and be in great shape for the start.  For IM's and marathons I need  a full 5 months to build up, but I try to keep a base of 8-10 hours a week in the off season.  Last week was  8:30 so building back up. 

Oh well back to this 20 page report I need to crank out in 2 hours. 

Haven't chosen a training plan yet.  Most are 20-24 weeks so I still have some time.  Been considering a Coach Troy plan, others recommend Endurance Nation and of course you have to consider the Joe Friel plans.  I can't decide.

Went out for a 4 hour group ride.  65 miles.  I remember the first time I went out on a 60+ mile group ride, I felt dead when I got back.  Today I rode home and could have kept going for another hour easily.

Had a swim lesson yesterday.  We worked on my rotation more and I learned the 3-6-3 drill. I also learned to do a proper wall turn.

I didn't run or bike any yesterday as I had planned, but I did go out with the family and over ate at Olive Garden.  I hate that place so all I eat is bread sticks and pizza.  Carb heaven.

Starving, going to eat a couple turkey sandwiches and chips.  Train hard and smart everybody.

My main recommendations for a first IM are to get in at least 3 and perferable 5 100 mile + rides before the race, get in a lot of 16 to 18 miles runs toward the end of the plan (separated by easier runs of course) and the swim is really just getting in enough distance to be able to maintain your steady pace.  Killing yourself on the swim to gain you 3 to 10 minutes will cost you later.  One thing to keep in mind is that you will probably need 4-6 weeks of base training before starting the 20-24 IM plan.  So roughly 5 months of training from a moderate base, but you are already doing pretty thick base training at the moment. 

Although speed work is .. um fun I guess,   do not cook yourself on the longer workouts.  I burnt muscle groups doing intensity before both of my first 2 IM's.  It is less fun to do an IM marathon with an iffy calf then with a less iffy calf muscle. 

Fun bike lastnight 10 minute repeats on the bike, 5x 30 sec LT efforts followed by 3x10:00 at HR 133, 142 and 153.  Oh well off to get back on the bike. 

Endurance, endurance, endurance.  Zone 2.  No threshold.  I agree 100%.

I had planned on doing a century in Jan, Feb, and Mar.  I want to get 2 in April - 1st week of April(6 weeks out) and last week of april(exactly 21 days from race day).  

At my 10:00-10:30 training/racing running pace, 18 will definitely be my limit with a 3 hour run.  Most of what I read recommends only going 2.5 for the long run but depending on how I feel I think it's worth at least once or twice to go for the full 18.  I also run/walk my runs with a 6:1 ration so a 3 hour run will only include 2:34 of running.

I like the QT2 idea behind critical volume.  It's covered in the BT video and in this blog post.  This would basically recommend 10-12k yds or swimming, 300-450 miles of biking, and 45-60 miles of running in 2 separate weeks 6 weeks prior to your race.  

And your right, the swim is the swim.  I can basically do the distance already.  All I want to do is get faster through efficiency, not power.  

The only other requirement I'm looking for in training is 2 weeks on/1 week off schedule.  I like getting the breaks more often.

Which makes me wonder for a novice just doing endurance workouts, why bother with a plan.  Most plans include speed work and intervals.  For the run I just want to add 10% or less each week and on my off weeks run 50-66% of the previous weeks mileage.  I don't need a plan for that.  The bike is about the same thing.  I have a nice starting base as it is.  Just keep adding mileage slowly, keep it in Z2 and get the power meter thing worked out (still reading and studying) and I have that.  All that leaves is swimming.  My swim workouts for triathletes book has a basic 13-week IM plan in it that I can basically just go through twice.  I have a swim coach for the rest.  So in the end I would be purchasing a plan to tell me how long to go on the bike.  Joe Friel's Going Long book provides a good base for that.

So I'm not sure what to do.  Common sense says get a plan, you're a rookie and can't possibly self-coach your way to an Ironman.  The other part says you're a novice.  Just don't do too much too fast and you just need to get the volume in slowly.  You don't need any detailed plan.  So I guess I'll wing it until Jan. 1 when I will have to make a decision on what to do.

Who wants to read more ramblings from me?  Ok here they go.

1. I used the power meter today on the ride.  I found it quite interesting.  On the hills you I used to try to keep my cadence above 90.  As long as my cadence didn't fall below 90, I didn't shift.  Today I did it differently.  I still tried to keep my cadence above 90, but I would shift based on my power output.  If I went above 220 watts (10% above threshold), I would shift down.  I was slower on the hills, but when I reached the top, I was not exhausted.  I used to get to the top of the big hills and not have the energy to get my cadence up on the down hills.  This was horrible on a series of rollers.  Nothing like starting a climb with no momentum.  Today I could get my momentum going on the down side and hit the next climb with the same speed I hit the first one with.  A few times I had to push harder than I wanted because I did have a group to keep up with. The power meter also helped me on the flats.  I truly believe this is the key to racing smart.
2. There was a couple from Australia doing the ride with us today.  They are in the country for a few months and are traveling the states.  They brought their bikes from AUS and carry them everywhere.  They say that in every city they are visiting they check for a local group ride.  Very friendly couple.  Living the life.  Their destination was NYC for Thanksgiving to watch the Macy's Parade in person.  I asked how they knew of the parade and they said everybody knows about it, mostly from movies and tv shows.  I never realized this was a world famous event.
3. Got a message from the tri club that they are planning on doing a 100 100s competition.  It starts on 12/17 @ 5:00am.  They want people to show up and swim 100 100s that morning.  10,000 yards in one session.  The club fish has planned this and the paces are super fast in my opinion.  She has broken it up into 10 1,000 yard sets with paces starting at 1:45/100 and dropping to 1:30/100.  Nothing slower than 1:45 over 10,000 yards.  She estimates everybody should be able to complete this in 2:10.  Who here want s to try this?  It would take me 3:45 at least.
4. I had to buy a hoodie tonight because I really don't have any winter clothes or jackets.  I am happy to say a medium was too large and I had to purchase a small.  

Steve, that's really cool about your son's 5K time.  Sounds like he wants to be like dear old dad! That 10 mile race will keep him attached to reality given the calliber of the competition, and hopefully inspire him further.  Good job staying the course on the bike training.  Hey, where do you get your shoes at 1/2 off?   

Dennis, thanks for the RW gift card tip.  Unfortunately, I fell asleep early and missed out .  Drat!!  If you want to know more about Endurance Nation, I think Ernesto (another mentor here) has been/is part of that if you want to PM him.  Great improvements for you on feeling fresh after 65 miles, as well as the hill strategy.  Nice dividends in the downsized hoodie!  Oh, and your tri club fish is nuts on the speed.

Rested, soaked, and rolled on Friday, and then ran 14 miles on Saturday morning.  Felt pretty good early on, but last 5 or so was feeling it some.  Not enough to where I felt like I was lopsided or risking it.  Followed that up with a little upper body work - helping hubby load/unload/move 4X8X2 ply drywall.  I think he's glad he didn't marry the delicate type  

And Dennis, since you mentioned goal creep:  A friend ran 20 yesterday, her peak week training for her 1st marathon.  So I start thinking....geez, I'll peak out at 15 next week before White Rock 1/2 (12/4).  It's not a big leap from there to 20 and maybe beyond.  So I could trade in my 1/2 entry in Cowtown (Feb 26) in for a full entry if things hold up well.  Won't decide until end of December.  My bike is feeling very neglected lately.    

One of the people I'm doing Texas with is a member. He's a total zealot about them.  Always pushing them on people.  Kinda like a Mac person if you've ever met one.  EN stresses low volume/high intensity from what I know.  Totally opposite of what I'm looking for.  Thanks for the info though.

As far as half to full, in 3 weeks you'll be asking about if you can break 4 hours over the 26.2.  Remember the 14 miler wasn't exactly a piece of cake, but you'll know when you get to the decision point what to do.