Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA (Page 6)

The Plan B type products are certainly a gray area because of the "post intercourse" nature of their usage.  Some see the act itself that results in a pregnancy as "conceiving the child" and others (probably more common) consider egg fertilization as the moment of conception (I'm kind of in that camp).

Either way, it boils down to forcing someone who has a "religious belief" (right or wrong) to go against it by using the force/power of government.  As an individual, I think we can all agree that a person has the freedom to believe whatever they want in regards to contraception, but the question at hand is if that individuals right is still protected in the context of a business they own.

Actually... according to this they do. I was wondering what the details were... but this says it is investment in the ones they do not want to provide in health plans... and they certainly have choices.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/04/01/hobby-lobby-401k-discovered-to-be-investor-in-numerous-abortion-and-contraception-products-while-claiming-religious-objection/

You trying to mess my day up?  I have work to do and now want to go read that.  lol

I'll try and read through it tonight, but from the discussions we've had earlier and the way the arguments went I don't think this is really a surprise decision.

I'm guessing it's more about the "obvious conflicts".  For example, reproductive topics are pretty well known as items that conflict with various religions.  However, things like vaccinations and blood transfusions are what I'd call fringe issues with some religions.  In other words, they're not doctrinal type things because the Bible doesn't say "though shall not vaccinate".  

where the heck does the bible say "thou shalt not use birth control?"  there is a whole lot of modern medicine that contradicts orthodox judaism, fertility treatments come to mind.  just because they aren't YOUR religion it isn't right to blow it off as "fringe."

I'm actually with you on the birth control part because I feel it's something that prevents conception.  There's obviously been a lot of debate about the "morning after" type pills, which get a lot closer to terminating a fertilized egg versus preventing conception in the first place, so I'd call those more "gray area" types of conception that are the ones HL doesn't want to provide.

As for the Bible part of it, it's about when you consider life starting.  If a life begins at conception, the Bible is pretty clear about taking a life as not being permissible.

I don't want to devolve into a pro-life/choice debate because it's not really necessary.  I'm just trying to explain why somebody would be opposed to certain types of contraception based on religious grounds.  It's a little more clear cut when talking about taking the pill or using a condom as contraception and voluntary terminating a pregnancy after conception which is where the debate has been for many years.  It's the newer advances with things like the morning after pill where this debate seems to be raging.

Yeah, the market will most certainly sort these things out.

I actually wondered how much of an issue this really was from an employee standpoint.  I'm a white color worker who has had a lot of job interviews and job offers and I've also managed people for many years where I've hired hundreds of people.  Other than asking for insurance coverage options such as copays, fee's, and percentages covered nobody has ever asked for specific items covered and most certainly never asked about contraceptive type stuff.

I'm not saying nobody looks into that detail, but I wonder if this whole thing is kind of a non issue other than the government now mandating the "coverages" that most people didn't cover before.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Is it required anywhere for companies to explicity state those things that they will or will not cover based on their religious beliefs? Personally, while I'm disappointed in the SCOTUS ruling, I suppose it's something that the labor market will sort out on its own. Private companies aren't required to offer paid holidays or vacation or personal days or lots of other things that most workers take for granted. The reason most companies offer paid holidays and paid vacation is that almost no one would work for a company that didn't. If and when Hobby Lobby or any other company finds that they're at a marked competitive disadvantage when it comes to hiring and retaining employees as a result of this policy, they'll have to make a decision as to whether it's in the best interest of the business to continue to structure their plans this way.

Yeah, the market will most certainly sort these things out.

I actually wondered how much of an issue this really was from an employee standpoint.  I'm a white collar worker who has had a lot of job interviews and job offers and I've also managed people for many years where I've hired hundreds of people.  Other than asking for insurance coverage options such as copays, fee's, and percentages covered nobody has ever asked for specific items covered and most certainly never asked about contraceptive type stuff.

I'm not saying nobody looks into that detail, but I wonder if this whole thing is kind of a non issue other than the government now mandating the "coverages" that most people didn't cover before.

 

Fixed a typo for you...or did I? I don't think many people ask because there's not really been much reason to. Most people could safely assume that whatever medications or other prescriptions that they had covered under their previous plan would be covered by their new one. That changes a little now. Millennials in particular pay a lot more attention to whether a prospective employer is a good citizen or not, and that's a pretty subjective term. You can bet that any company that decides to stop covering contraceptives will be "outed" on sites like Glassdoor and LinkedIn. It will be interesting to see to what degree, if at all, these companies are affected.

haha, ok that was a funny typo.  I guess I was technically correct.  

There's definitely a lot of factors and I'd say region as well as job market plays a big part.  If you're in Detroit, you don't care if they even have benefits, let alone what they cover.  You just want any job you can get.
I think it can also go both ways where people appreciate companies taking a moral stand based on their beliefs.  
I have a good friend who was recently on the job market and he specifically looked for companies that were owned by Christians and took a job at a pretty large company in town that is.  They even open all of their meetings with a prayer.  I'm betting that doesn't happen too much in NYC.  

We don't agree often but in this case we're on the same page.  Let the free market decide.  It would be totally different if they provided a "Plan B" type drug for men (wrap your head around that one) and NOT to women.  But I do not see why a privately held company should be forced to provide something that goes against their fundamental beliefs.

What about companies that offer NO health care coverage.  I would think there would be more outrage over that than a company who provides coverage but just not the the extents that people demand.

On that note I'm kind of surprised we have not seen Chick-Fil-A enter into this fray.

Just to be clear, Hobby Lobby does cover 16 of the 20 major contraceptives on the market and has no issues at all with them.  They just chose to not cover morning after type contraceptives, so I don't think your description of them objecting to "contraception" is accurate.

I have that same question.

On a side note the employee is not denied or forbidden to get the drug, like anything else that's not covered they would have to pay for it. 

This is what a lot of people do not know.  As far as I know the morning after pill is not used for anything except to end a possible pregnancy.  Hopefully this is not something a woman is doing on a routine basis.

I don't know.  Those kids cause an awful lot of high blood pressure and stress.