Cross Fit Article in Triathlete (Page 6)

haven't started reading yet but thanks... that's all I was looking for.. i find these discussions very interesting

take care, max!!!



Edited by maxmattmick 2011-01-20 10:34 AM

This is irony at its finest.

The FACT is that there is a studied quoted that you've claimed proves your point.  Honest critical analysis of it and placing it in its proper context shows that your claim is false.  I've yet to see you engage in any debate or even consider those critical analyses.

I didn't quote the rest of your post as to not make this too long, but there are multiple things that you put in it that are simply irrelevant to the conversation.  Whether Crossfit/CFE is free or not is irrelevant.  What police officers do and how they train is irrelevant to the triathlon community.  The popularity of it is irrelevant.

You want to quote blogs and personal anecdotes as evidence?  Guess what?  Training works.  What it does not tell you is whether or not it's an optimal training method.  That is done via CONTROLLED trials.  You can hit myself on the head with a hammer 8 times a day for a year and get cancer, but that doesn't mean that the hammer caused the cancer.  That's the whole point of objective evidence.  Anecdotes are better than nothing but not by much.

If you had the ability to separate yourself from the zealotry and honestly take a look at the information available, you wouldn't come to the conclusions that you do.  You have a very obvious bias in not doing so as your job depends on pushing this agenda.  Just don't expect that everybody will let all the claims slip by without challenge.  And that goes for every kind of training, so don't think that anybody is singling out Crossfit/CFE by being critical.

It is.  The above poster has no response and isn't contributing to the discussion.

for my money... that was what I thought was so good about it...

really........a "studied quoted"

Edited by thecatch83 2011-01-20 1:24 PM

Wow Max.  You sure can ramble can't ya?  I'm not going to deny that I think the principles of CF are intriguing in their application.  I have a hard time looking at the program and saying there is sufficient volume for a HIM or IM, but I could be proven wrong.  What you need to understand though is the zeal with which CFers go about advocating their program rubs everyone the wrong way.  Every lifter I have run into over the years hates CF and CFers, you aren't making friends here, so maybe it's time to re-evaluate the way you guys go about promoting the program. 

Uncle...

X2. Like uhcoog, I find CF principles intriguing, and I'll even go so far and say that some of the ideas are downright good. But some of these CFers need to understand that it's just a workout program, not a religion. And a lot of this comes from CF founder Greg Glassman himself. Read some of this stuff and read how he reacts to ANY criticism of CF and you will come away with the inescapable conclusion that he is a Category 5 doucheb@g.

Having said all that, I intend to experiment with some of the CFE workouts.

Wow.  A typo.

Thanks for your ongoing significant contributions to this thread.

I agree that (like most endurance sports)  some CF athletes can be incredulous and fall victim to d-baggery........but there are plenty of 40 something triathletes with $10,000 CF bikes, ridiculous time trial helmets and 140.6 stickers plastered all over their SUV's clocking 15+ hour Ironmans............commence horse beating

But they aren't the face to the "movement." 

There is no "movement"........CF has grown from just 17 gyms to 2,000 affiliates in five years, and has been utilized and endorsed by the most elite special ops communities (Navy SEALS, EOD, Army Rangers etc.) for years.  It's proven, it's here to stay and that is all........

They are to people outside triathlon, but get involved in triathlon and you learn more. Same with CF. My son is certified in CF and CFE. He doesn't engage in the b-baggery spoken of here, nor do many of his associates. The squeaky wheel gets the bad pub.

I'm curious (since I don't know that much about CF or CFE) what garners the designation of an "affiliate"? Is it a bricks and mortar structure? Leased space? Website?

That is an immense growth in a short period of time, but i doubt that it is 2,000 freestanding gyms or fitness centers? Or is it?

And is there some type of public endorsement by those Special Forces or is it a regimen that they utilize at some of the many bases of operations?

No offense bro but this doesn't help.  I wasn't attacking you, hell I'm not attacking the workout style.  If it works for you great.  I'm saying those who purport to represent CFers are very abrasive and closed off to any criticism.  If there was a open dialog with CFers acknowledging the limitations the tone wouldn't be this way.   Every program has weaknesses and limitations.

There's a distinct difference between military and police units, and triathletes.

Triathlon is very specific, whereas the military and police are about general fitness. CF is about general fitness, so the fact that those professions embrace is not surprising in the least. I know we never did much swim training, and no cycling, when I was in the Army. We also didn't run anywhere near the weekly mileage I ran in high school. Of course, in HS, I didn't do anywhere near the number of push-ups I did in the military.

The point is that no one hear is saying that CF/CFE is worthless, or that it's somehow not effective at its stated purpose (specifically general fitness). What people are saying is that it is not the most effective way for most people to train for endurance sports. That is all.

As I said before, I have zero interest in doing CF/CFE because I am not interested in anything they are promoting. My focus in regards to athletic pursuits is about maximizing my running performance, and enjoying myself. I have limited time in my days and weeks, so I spend that time involved in the specifics of my chosen sport, namely running. I do so because time spent running works towards my specific goals. Time spent doing other activities does not. So I don't lift weights, I don't do CF, I don't swim, I don't cycle. I just run. Now, can you tell me that if I took time away from my running, and spent it on CF/CFE, I'd be a better runner?

I agree that there are decent people in CF. I happen to do Olympic lifting at a CF gym and I've liked everyone I've met there. No one has tried to convince me to join CF. The owner of the place is really big on Olympic lifting and he has some cool strongman toys - he's got a bunch of big tires for flipping and he's recently bought molds to make Atlas stones. It's a fun place to workout. And part of my interest in CF stems from the fact that I see similarities to strongman training which requires both strength AND endurance. These "hybrid workouts," as I call them, stress your system in ways that pure strength training or pure endurance training doesn't.

Very true..
I was doing cross fit last summer and really enjoyed it, it was a nice change of pace.  Even thought I still keep my normal running program.   Every one I met was really cool, and laid back.  Neither of the owners or any of their instructors thought I should do CFE for an ironman though, outside of maybe coming to their free saturday class as a general strength class. 
I saw one of the guys at Christmas time and was talking with him.  His only comments were once I was finished with my race to come back again since it was a fun group of people. 
that's why I'm always amazed at how these cross fit threads end up. 

Thanks for your service to our country!  I'm a Naval Aircrewman stationed in Japan (8 years of service), and I know what it takes to fit training in with a demanding deployment schedule.....we do what we have to do and in the end, if that's enough to meet our goals that's all that matters!

Person who wants to open up an affiliate gets a certification and then pays a yearly franchise fee. I don't know the amount of the fee, but from what I've read, Glassman is now making millions of dollars a year off of the affiliate revenue. This is why it's no big deal that he posts the workouts for free - he's doing just fine courtesy of his franchisees.

Most affiliates, if not all, just rent space in a warehouse-type building. This is why CF affiliates are called "boxes," due to the fact that the gym is just a big empty space with exercise equipment. This is fine because there is no need for exercise machines, other than rowing machines, that can take up room. The lack of weight machines is a good thing, IMO. Lots of space is needed because the workouts are all done in a group. There is usually some type of massive pull-up bar structure since CF focuses a lot on pull ups. Also a good thing. Affiliates do not need to follow the main site CF workouts and are free to program their own, based on the affiliate owners' preferences and equipment limitations. Not all boxes have all the equipment. For instance, the box where I do Olympic lifting doesn't have a glute-ham developer. However, we probably have better Olympic lifting bars and than most boxes. If you're interested, I'll post a link to the box where I go, but I don't want to just post a link because I don't want to be seen as promoting CF or the particular affiliate. When it comes to CF, I try to be Switzerland.

In case you missed, I asked you a question(s) on page 6. Any comments on that?

That's sort of what my son says to me. We'll talk occasionally about training, and his main concern for me is overuse injury, but he never bashes me over the the head with it and keeps offering to train me once I'm done with IronMan. I am open to CF/CFE  and comparing training styles for shorter distance races but I told him I'm sticking with the tried and true for the big one and he respects that.

Exactly.

Now it's exactly rite

Just shooting for 10 pages

Edited by pschriver 2011-01-20 4:01 PM

I think the whole "these people are d-bags" argument is a bit silly.  There are going to be unfavorable personalities in any sect of people.  

I'm still rather new to the sport, but as a guy who used to lift weights as the key component of my training, the only way I've gotten in shape for tri's adequately is by s/b/r.