Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 6)

5 hours for my HIM is a VERY AGGRESSIVE goal for me.  It will require I lose about 15 pounds to help my run, a crap load of time in the pool to improve my poor swim, and sort of just let my bike fitness carry me through.  I went 5:17 last year in some extremely windy conditions at Honu, and while sub 5:05-10 is a more realistic goal, I figure this far out I may as well swing for the fences.  Come April, I'll likely reassess where I am.

As for the 40k...I missed it by 30 seconds this year.  I didn't feel that great during the race (it was the week after my HIM), but mentally I gave up at about mile 16-17 as I saw my watts slipping.  Didn't get myself to dig deep into the pain cave...not sure why as it was a big goal for me.

DAN -

Ha!  I went into your races to see where and why you had a bad oly run, and the first one I checked was CdA.  I saw your eally fine finishing time, and then scrolled down the stats on the right and saw the 44 for the run.  I thought "This can't be the one", as a 44 10km off the bike (and especially an impresssive bike time) is a to-die-for time for most people, but then I went over to your comments ---- and it all became clear.  Let's just say I will bow and scrape and grovel at your feet, oh speedy one who has run 38 OFF THE BIKE!!!!   As I live and breather, you do indeed have some natural-born speed in your running arsenal.  A "fast-twitch" group is very apt for you!

I see you are a Black Pearl guy!  I have been a slave to DeSoto stuff ever since I started, and got my first DS two-piece in '03, right about when they made their debut.  I have gone the slightly more pricey route, with first T1 models and more recently First Wave -- even though my swimming abilities don't hold with a top-of-the-line wetsuit.  I ahve taken turns switching parts out, menaing that one year i will get a new top, next year a new bottom.  (I swim about 70-80 OWS each summer, so i go through wetsuits faster than 99.999999% of the tri population.)  This past late August, while putting on the bibjohn, it split from stem to stern -- think of gutting a fish.  I was floored.  My next tri was a week away, and all I could think of was aclling deSoto on Monday morning and having them speed-mail a new one to me here in Canada -- at huge expense.  That was mega-depressing, but after about 20 minutes of wailing and gnashing my teeth, I decided to hustle over to Bushtukah, a store in ottawa that carries wetsuits, in the hopes that with tri sweason up here just about over, there might be some discounted models -- not DeSoto (which they don't carry), but I was open to ANYTHING at that stage.

Long story short (um, it's already long), I was very, very fortuante that they had a Zoot 3.0 there, it fit perfectly, and lo and behold --- it was faster in the water AND in removing than the DeSoto.  I was soooo lucky frist to find it, andsecond to get it at 20% off.  But now I have TWO DeSoto tops, and no bopttom to go with them........so i gues si ought to oder a bootom and maybe use that system for training.  I have to admit, though, to feeling like a real traitor in dumping DeSoto for Zoot.  Such heavy guilt!!

You're doing great at fitting in very decent training, by the way, and also by the way ---- your weight loss is staggering.  looking at your photo, I can't picture you 62 pounds heavier.  Mercy!

Getting back to running, I gotta ask ----- what is your running history??  Your 10km oly time is just about as staggering as that weight loss!

Closing the gap??

By my reckoning, I am getting close to the end of comprehensive comments on everyone's bios.  I think the ramining ones are:

• Shana
• Samantha
• Darrell
• Don
• Tiffany

Anyone else?  (I will figure that out myself, I guess, once I check back through who has posted a bio and who I've responded to....but if you know you've been missed and aren't one of the five above, lemme know!)

Steve, you're the man!

See, that's how I know I have more in the can at the end of a 5k or a sprint tri...I have never thrown up...so obviously I'm not pushing it hard enough...

I know, I told him it's a good thing he's organized 'cause I'm all over the place.

I didn't actually post a question yet...but since you're offering...I have a question about peaking on the bike (in regards to a bike focus for bike racing).  In your experience, how long does your peak last, and how far from your most important race do you try to peak as far as training stress/load.  Do you have any tips on trying to extend your peak fitness?

From the past 2 seasons, I usually build up my mileage over the course of 8 weeks (going from tri training to pure bike training), then I usually take a few days vacation and ride the crap out of my bike (usually in the 330-400 mile range with 25-30k feet of climbing).  I found that when I do this, I hit a really good peak about 3-4 weeks later, and it lasts about 2.5 weeks.

Granted, we know that bike racing is not like tris in that there is usually a few races we are trying to target...not just one.  Just wanted your thoughts on how you approach training if there are say 4 races you are trying to peak for over the course of 6 weeks.  Is it possible to peak for all of them?  Do you just focus on a couple and know the others you won't be in top shape?

I am convinced that it's not just time spent in the saddle, but ensuring you are working very hard almost all of the time.

I think it is the EN guys who say bike volume is totally overrated, but that when you are riding, you should be riding HARD.

With the exception of your long ride, your plan looks pretty intense. It's definitely the kind of bike training I'm looking at doing. I have a hard time with long intervals on the bike (>15') so sometimes I'll break them up into smaller intervals...as long as I'm doing the same total time I figure it's ok.

Last year one of my favorite trainer rides was basically an hour with intervals of 8' 10' 12' 8', stuff like that...it was brutal...

What are sweet spot intervals?

Q

Patti that race sounds amazing. I love all of the different things we get to do in our lives with bodies that can move and work hard...such a reward for training and sacrifice. THAT is what it is all about!

I'd love to hear more about it too. Less race report stuff and more "dish." What was it like? Were there tri gods everywhere? Amazing bikes? Was it super competitive and aggressive? Or was it just another race? Do again?

Oh and finding yourself in the rankings is an endurance event in and of itself. Humbling though, especially after I kind of thought, hey I'm not so bad at this stuff. Then I see the gazillion billion 40 year old women who kick my butt all over the place. Still interesting to look now and then...

Amy, 

what's your plan? Pacing wise? Or is it just a go out and throw it all out there? That's kind of how I raced my PR HM...I think that's about the longest distance you can get away with that.

Sweet spot intervals are about 83-92% of FTP/LTHR.  You should be able to do them for pretty long intervals, otherwise you're probably more into the threshold area.  In terms of zones, probably the zone 3/zone 4 crossover.  Or if you're doing Sufferfest videos, they call that "recovery". 

For instance, my FTP measured on my KK Road Machine with Trainer Road is 274 (probably a little higher than that now, but that's what we'll use).  I did the "Crag" workout (one of Jorge's), which focuses on intervals just above threshold.  According to my TR file, I spend less than two minutes in my sweet spot (230 - 260) over the hour, and that's probably just transitioning from above threshold to recovery and back.  Other workouts are designed to spend almost the whole hour in the sweet spot. 

I would post in the florida forum...chances are there is a BTer or 5 who could tell you exactly where to swim or if it's safe. There is a lot of snorkeling and diving in that area...lots of manmade reefs, but close to the beach I would be extremely worried about getting hit by boats and jetskis. Many resorts have a roped off swim area that you could almost use as a pool, back and forth in the deeper part and still be safe, but it's not "true" OWS. Frankly though if you were going to attempt "real" OWS you should have a partner in a kayak with you for safety and visibility.

Can you tell I am a mother?

I do have a plan!  I know myself well enough to know that at this point it takes me a good mile to warm up.  If I try to start with my goal pace, it feels like I'm fighting gravity.  I'll start off about 30 seconds/mile slower then work up to my race pace gradually during mile 2-3 depending on how I feel.  Then I'll amp up the last several miles to make up for the slower first few.  I'll know by mid race if I can really maintain the pace needed for the PR.  If not, it's all about just getting in the zone and doing the best I can!

I'm one to rely heavily on my Garmin   Interestingly enough, this race, the Detroit Free Press is international.  We get to cross the bridge into Ontario, then cross the tunnel back to Michigan during the race.  So I know Garmin will die during that mile long tunnel trip.  I have my splits memorized so I'll still know if I'm on track or not.

4x15's at FTP or higher is likely not realistic.  That's 60 minutes of FTP or higher.  Maybe 2x20's @ 95-100% FTP, or 3x15 @ 95-98% FTP.  If you can hold 4x15 @ FTP or higher you probably need to retest.

I'd also make the Friday workout an optional easy spin if your legs are getting wasted...especially if you're still running while doing this program.  The type of schedule you are proposing will work, but it's bloody murder...and likely assumes you are only cycling.

I swear I am starting to think that marathons are the banes of triathletes existence. They are really too much training to do when you're also trying to do IM in the same year, and they are absolutely the wrong kind of training if you are trying to also train for short course. 

Buuut, I am as guilty as the next guy of wanting to do it all, so if you are bent on doing it, there is time and your plan seems fairly reasonable. Just be forewarned. You will not enhance your performance for your sprint. you. will. lose. speed. (my opinion only...others may not agree)

If you're ok with that, and that's totally cool, then go for it. We'll cheer for you all the way.

My husband and I put instant pace and lap pace on our Garmins to cross check for the Chicago Marathon. There is a tunnel at the beginning too. He used his. I just ended up running with a pace group which was fantastic. Made me wonder if that virtual partner function might actually be useful. I've never used it. 

Aha, fantastic. I am going to learn a lot in this group!

Marathon training has actually helped my run tremendously during the off season.  But I'm not sure that picking up a marathon plan with 7 miles being your longest run ever is such a good idea.  Maybe go for a half marathon.

Keep in mind though that anytime you do a single sport focus, you likely need to give yourself 4-8 weeks afterwards to reacclimate to the other sports.  So if you have a 3/2 marathon or half marathon, I wouldn't schedule an A race tri until June or later.  And I agree that I would not do a marathon in the same year as training for an IM.

I usually do an early December marathon (likely won't do it this year...but maybe).  But my A race tris are usually not till May/June.  So I usually take Dec/Jan to rebuild my swim and bike, then do normal tri training from Feb-May. 

Hey Amy... Indeed it is the Detroit half I'm doing.  I'm getting quite excited about it since I discovered a couple days ago a friend is also doing it (the first leg of a relay).  Plus with the tigers just making it to the world series (insanity....) I'm thinking it should just add to the weekend marathon festivities!

In terms of nationals, for sprint nationals, it actually doesn't require qualification... but for my own justification purposes, I did qualify for the Olympic distance nationals (and it seemed like most people in my AG qualified as well)... which all you do is place in the top 10% in your age group in any USAT sanctioned race.  You don't need to do any number of races to qualify, as I received an e-mail I qualified after I had done just one race for the season.  I don't pay attention to the rankings page.

Have you seen this page?  It lists the qualification standards.

http://www.usatriathlon.org/events/usat/2012/08/age-group-national-championship/qualification.aspx

SHANA again (last night's being a brief one) -

I went to your race reports, and you had a very nice and compact season of races.  You are fortunate to have decent races so close to you, or at least that you manage to get to easily enough.

I saw your comment, on one RR, to the effect that "My running sucks", and I guess i'd like to know what you see as your main problem as a runner.  (FWIW, I didn't think your running times were at all way off for someone who is pretty new at this stuff.)  You don't mention anything about injuries, so I'm guessing it's something else.  Any thoughts?

I will also get around to looking at your 5km and 10km stand-alone runs; maybe something will seem more obvious there.  But, geez -- you are to be commended for working hard at running, as most people who get frustrated by it steer way wide of stand-alone running races.  With continued dedication to improving your running, which you seem to have plenty of, I am sure you will break off the current plateau sooner rather than later. 

Is the one you've signed up for next season a repeat of one of this year's?  That a grerat thing to do, especially as one works though their first few seasons, as the comparisons are very telling about one's progress.  hopefully, you will be able to do repeats of one or two other of your '12 (or '11) races.  Maybe?

I haven't had that same effect. Or more specifically, I've gotten better at marathons, worse at shorter distances. Both stand alone and tri. It's come back some this year as I got away from a large volume of slow running and went back to less running with more intensity. But that's not to say that an appropriately timed marathon in one's season can't be beneficial. 

And my experience is a sample size of 1, everyone's mileage will vary. Literally.