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2013-05-06 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
ccmpsyd - 2013-05-06 11:54 AM
everlong - 2013-05-06 10:38 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

No. Generally what I do is warm up and then I do my first 100 at a fast but not all out pace. Depending on how I feel that's generally somewhere between 1:25 to 1:35 when I hit the wall. I take ten seconds of rest and that is my sustainable effort. So let's say I bring it in at 1:33 I'll round up to keep it even and take 12 seconds on the first one and my intervals are at 1:45. By the 8th one you start to fatigue and the rest might only be 5 seconds. Other days I'll actually get faster and if that happens I may drop to a 1:40 interval but I don't let myself add onto the interval.

There's some trial and error but after doing it a few times you'll learn your paces and it will become instinctual. I can within a second tell you how fast I brought in an interval 98% of the time and the other two percent I'm usually pretty close as well.

So the swim portion of my first sprint did not go as I had hoped. I looked at the Garmin data and it looks like I went out pretty fast for the first 100 or so. I know I thought to myself that I should slow down because I was concerned with really conking out, which screwed me up. Long story short - I do not pace well swimming.

Open water pacing is much harder to gage. I had that issue my first season. Last year I did over 50 OWS training sessions and I was much better. I think as a general rule your pace should be about what your interval time is. So for me swimming at 1:35 +10 seconds rest = 1:45 race pace. I was going out at interval pace when I first started and I bet you did the same. Going out and doing longer intervals at race pace in the open water teaches you pacing. I would do 5X500 with a minute of rest between. I got much more consistent.



2013-05-06 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM
mleech77 - 2013-05-06 11:16 AM

everlong - 2013-05-06 11:06 AM

Current Training: Took 9 days off to go to Disney with the family. Keeping the wife happy for all the training she lets me get away with.

Once the race season gets into full swing I'm curious what my trade offs will be with my wife.  She's already putting up with a lot considering I work part time for a road racing organization.  One weekend a month I'm at a track playing with race cars.  Now I'm adding my own race season on top of this.  This year it's all "local" so within 2 hours drive, but I'm already storing up as many brownie points as I can.

I do nearly all my training before 8AM even on the weekends. So to pull that off I was up at 4:35 this morning and got in 1:15 on the trainer plus an hour run. I take Saturdays off so she can sleep in and I take care of any issues with the toddler or 6 month old and even Sundays I'm up at 4-5AM depending on the workout. During the week I'll run or swim on my lunch hour. You learn how to squeeze it in to keep the home life happy which at the end of the day it's more important than our hobby we love.

I'm up anywhere from 4-5 but it's usually 4:30.  I try to get it all in as early as possible even on the weekends.  It needs to be as invisible as possible with 4 children.  

2013-05-06 11:06 AM
in reply to: #4729271

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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:02 PM
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:11 AM

uhcoog - 2013-05-06 8:42 AM I'm assuming me Scott and not the other Scott.  Always confusing.

I think we can safely say when Kelly defers it's to you but in general there have been times I haven't been sure either.

I would say in this case it either Scott could answer the question well. 

Danke.

2013-05-06 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
uhcoog - 2013-05-06 11:36 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 10:29 AM

Okay so this weekend didn't go exactly as planned with training but I did learn some things. Over/Unders are brutal! enough said on that one. Make a larger window for long training rides...and I am one awesome BBQ man! Daughter was very happy with here smoked wings and ribs for her birthday. On top of that her team go their first win of the season Saturday. My son scored the winning goal for his team. I'll take all that any day over a 3 hour training ride Now my focus is on this week:

2200 w/Catch drills done this morning. 40 mins OLPs(One Legged Pedaling) later today. 13 days till first race of season.

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

 

Haha.  I have over/unders on the bike and run this week.

I haven't had over unders. What are they?
2013-05-06 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:38 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

No. Generally what I do is warm up and then I do my first 100 at a fast but not all out pace. Depending on how I feel that's generally somewhere between 1:25 to 1:35 when I hit the wall. I take ten seconds of rest and that is my sustainable effort. So let's say I bring it in at 1:33 I'll round up to keep it even and take 12 seconds on the first one and my intervals are at 1:45. By the 8th one you start to fatigue and the rest might only be 5 seconds. Other days I'll actually get faster and if that happens I may drop to a 1:40 interval but I don't let myself add onto the interval.

There's some trial and error but after doing it a few times you'll learn your paces and it will become instinctual. I can within a second tell you how fast I brought in an interval 98% of the time and the other two percent I'm usually pretty close as well.

There are two slightly different things going on here.

What Scott is describing (swimming 100s on 1:40 or 1:45) is interval swimming.  When swimming an interval, you go off on the interval no matter what.  For example when I played water polo in college we swam 20 x 100 on 1:30 pretty much every day.  For the first 10 or 12 100s I would hit the wall and have a little time to rest but towards the end it would just become an all out swim with no rest because I would miss the interval.

What Larkin is describing is a best sustainable effort.  Goal in that type of workout should be to go as fast as you can for all of the 100s.  That is, while you may be able to pop one off at 1:26, when you do 10, your time is more like 1:34.  So the goal should be to do all 10 in 1:34 and then take 10 - 15 seconds rest between each 100. 

Does this help?

2013-05-06 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.


2013-05-06 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
jarvy01 - 2013-05-06 12:06 PM
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM
mleech77 - 2013-05-06 11:16 AM

everlong - 2013-05-06 11:06 AM

Current Training: Took 9 days off to go to Disney with the family. Keeping the wife happy for all the training she lets me get away with.

Once the race season gets into full swing I'm curious what my trade offs will be with my wife.  She's already putting up with a lot considering I work part time for a road racing organization.  One weekend a month I'm at a track playing with race cars.  Now I'm adding my own race season on top of this.  This year it's all "local" so within 2 hours drive, but I'm already storing up as many brownie points as I can.

I do nearly all my training before 8AM even on the weekends. So to pull that off I was up at 4:35 this morning and got in 1:15 on the trainer plus an hour run. I take Saturdays off so she can sleep in and I take care of any issues with the toddler or 6 month old and even Sundays I'm up at 4-5AM depending on the workout. During the week I'll run or swim on my lunch hour. You learn how to squeeze it in to keep the home life happy which at the end of the day it's more important than our hobby we love.

I'm up anywhere from 4-5 but it's usually 4:30.  I try to get it all in as early as possible even on the weekends.  It needs to be as invisible as possible with 4 children.  

Ditto to Jen. Up between 4-4:30 to get it done. My training generally doesn't affect my family except on weekends.
2013-05-06 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:38 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

No. Generally what I do is warm up and then I do my first 100 at a fast but not all out pace. Depending on how I feel that's generally somewhere between 1:25 to 1:35 when I hit the wall. I take ten seconds of rest and that is my sustainable effort. So let's say I bring it in at 1:33 I'll round up to keep it even and take 12 seconds on the first one and my intervals are at 1:45. By the 8th one you start to fatigue and the rest might only be 5 seconds. Other days I'll actually get faster and if that happens I may drop to a 1:40 interval but I don't let myself add onto the interval.

There's some trial and error but after doing it a few times you'll learn your paces and it will become instinctual. I can within a second tell you how fast I brought in an interval 98% of the time and the other two percent I'm usually pretty close as well.

I usually take 10" between intervals.  If I'm doing 100s all out, I can tell how fast I brought in an interval pretty much every time.  I know when I dropped the ball and when I hit it right.  My goal is to make my swim speed in the pool translate to OW.  It's tough.  So tough.   

2013-05-06 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
DDVMM - 2013-05-06 12:06 PM
uhcoog - 2013-05-06 11:36 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 10:29 AM

Okay so this weekend didn't go exactly as planned with training but I did learn some things. Over/Unders are brutal! enough said on that one. Make a larger window for long training rides...and I am one awesome BBQ man! Daughter was very happy with here smoked wings and ribs for her birthday. On top of that her team go their first win of the season Saturday. My son scored the winning goal for his team. I'll take all that any day over a 3 hour training ride Now my focus is on this week:

2200 w/Catch drills done this morning. 40 mins OLPs(One Legged Pedaling) later today. 13 days till first race of season.

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

 

Haha.  I have over/unders on the bike and run this week.

I haven't had over unders. What are they?

Over / Unders are a race specific workout where you do equal amounts of time at tempo pace and then at aerobic pace.  So a workout would look like 2 x (10 mins at tempo, 10 mins aerobic).

They help your body adjust to the pace you will be trying to hit during your race.  Usually they should be used in the 2-3 weeks before your "A" race.

2013-05-06 11:14 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

2013-05-06 11:14 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed

kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:09 PM I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.

Are you serious??? That is freaking AWESOME!



2013-05-06 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 11:14 AM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

Mile repeats or two mile repeats because they're fun.  I also like threshold intervals on the bike for the same reason.  And I race long course.  Go figure.

 

I do really love my long aerobic runs though.  They give me a chance to clear my head.

2013-05-06 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
jarvy01 - 2013-05-06 11:14 AM

kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:09 PM I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.

Are you serious??? That is freaking AWESOME!

It was cool to watch her. The guy in the lane with (or next) to her started out pretty fast. Kelly slowly reeled him in and beat him with a pretty good margin. Very impressive flip turns.

2013-05-06 11:40 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 11:14 AM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

Hill repeats for run and I like the Tabatta (sp) all out for brief spurts.

2013-05-06 11:46 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed

kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:09 PM I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.

That's awesome, way to go.

 

And hats off to all of you with kids that are doing this training.  I can't imagine how that balance works.  It's rough enough for me just balancing work and our dogs. 

2013-05-06 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:07 PM

There are two slightly different things going on here.

What Scott is describing (swimming 100s on 1:40 or 1:45) is interval swimming.  When swimming an interval, you go off on the interval no matter what.  For example when I played water polo in college we swam 20 x 100 on 1:30 pretty much every day.  For the first 10 or 12 100s I would hit the wall and have a little time to rest but towards the end it would just become an all out swim with no rest because I would miss the interval.

What Larkin is describing is a best sustainable effort.  Goal in that type of workout should be to go as fast as you can for all of the 100s.  That is, while you may be able to pop one off at 1:26, when you do 10, your time is more like 1:34.  So the goal should be to do all 10 in 1:34 and then take 10 - 15 seconds rest between each 100. 

Does this help?

Yes thank you both actually!

Kelly that is awesome on your swim! Congrats!!



2013-05-06 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

My favorite workouts are long swims and long runs.  Long swims because I can zone out and I find it to be relaxing and good for my mental health.  Long runs because they beat up my body and I am a masochist.  My body feels almost like it's broken and I'm addicted to that sensation.  

2013-05-06 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
ccmpsyd - 2013-05-06 12:36 PM
jarvy01 - 2013-05-06 11:14 AM

kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:09 PM I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.

Are you serious??? That is freaking AWESOME!

It was cool to watch her. The guy in the lane with (or next) to her started out pretty fast. Kelly slowly reeled him in and beat him with a pretty good margin. Very impressive flip turns.

I love watching good flip turns.  Good for you Kelly for beating your lane mate  What was your 400 split?

2013-05-06 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

I like hill repeats for the run. I just like the confidence and strength it gives me for hills. For the bike I like the longer rides but usually outside not inside It is like Scott for the long runs. Just time to clear the head and enjoy the scenery. Swim...nothing haha, seriously, at first I enjoyed the drills because I really needed them to help with my stroke. Now I like what I did on Sunday which was 800w/u; 200 all out; 10x(100 easy, 100 hard) The first 4-5 100s were pretty tough but then I just get in a groove with those time of workouts and it feels good to get to that "sustainable" feeling in swimming.

Edited by kidtri33 2013-05-06 12:06 PM
2013-05-06 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

As much as it's my weakest portion due my lack of breathing skill, any swim workout.  I love the water, so anytime I can get in it I'm happy (for now as long as I have my swim snorkel).

2013-05-06 12:17 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed

kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:09 PM I need to do a little brag -- my 400 split for my swim on Saturday qualified me for US Masters nationals.  Kind of a nifty little thing.

Very sweet.



2013-05-06 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

Intervals on the trainer, race pace effort outside on the bike and a tempo run are all up there for me. I probably especially love the race pace effort outside because pushing pretty hard for 2.75 hours is fun but then really digging in that last 15 just gives me that natural high.

I have to get the bike tuned up this week and have the chain replaced so I can do one of those Sunday morning.

2013-05-06 12:29 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
everlong - 2013-05-06 1:25 PM
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

Intervals on the trainer, race pace effort outside on the bike and a tempo run are all up there for me. I probably especially love the race pace effort outside because pushing pretty hard for 2.75 hours is fun but then really digging in that last 15 just gives me that natural high.

I have to get the bike tuned up this week and have the chain replaced so I can do one of those Sunday morning.

If you are replacing the chain, you should also replace the cassette.  Chains and cassettes need to "marry" each other, so its a good thing to replace them at the same time. 

2013-05-06 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:07 PM
everlong - 2013-05-06 11:38 AM
kidtri33 - 2013-05-06 11:29 AM

So this is kind of a newb question and it may help out the many new folks we have in here as well. When the swim calls for 8x100 best sustainable effort. I assume you are doing 100s and "resting" for about 5-10s before the next 100? At least that is what I have been doing.

No. Generally what I do is warm up and then I do my first 100 at a fast but not all out pace. Depending on how I feel that's generally somewhere between 1:25 to 1:35 when I hit the wall. I take ten seconds of rest and that is my sustainable effort. So let's say I bring it in at 1:33 I'll round up to keep it even and take 12 seconds on the first one and my intervals are at 1:45. By the 8th one you start to fatigue and the rest might only be 5 seconds. Other days I'll actually get faster and if that happens I may drop to a 1:40 interval but I don't let myself add onto the interval.

There's some trial and error but after doing it a few times you'll learn your paces and it will become instinctual. I can within a second tell you how fast I brought in an interval 98% of the time and the other two percent I'm usually pretty close as well.

There are two slightly different things going on here.

What Scott is describing (swimming 100s on 1:40 or 1:45) is interval swimming.  When swimming an interval, you go off on the interval no matter what.  For example when I played water polo in college we swam 20 x 100 on 1:30 pretty much every day.  For the first 10 or 12 100s I would hit the wall and have a little time to rest but towards the end it would just become an all out swim with no rest because I would miss the interval.

What Larkin is describing is a best sustainable effort.  Goal in that type of workout should be to go as fast as you can for all of the 100s.  That is, while you may be able to pop one off at 1:26, when you do 10, your time is more like 1:34.  So the goal should be to do all 10 in 1:34 and then take 10 - 15 seconds rest between each 100. 

Does this help?

If you're doing 1:34 and then only 10-15 seconds of rest there's really no difference for most of us compared to intervals. I might be able to sustain 1:25's for 8 sets if I was taking 30 seconds but less than that the difference in recovery would be marginal.

2013-05-06 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 and UHCoog's Mentor Group-Closed
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 1:29 PM
everlong - 2013-05-06 1:25 PM
kaburns1214 - 2013-05-06 12:14 PM

Seeing we're talking about workout specifics --

What is everyone's favorite workout and why?

Intervals on the trainer, race pace effort outside on the bike and a tempo run are all up there for me. I probably especially love the race pace effort outside because pushing pretty hard for 2.75 hours is fun but then really digging in that last 15 just gives me that natural high.

I have to get the bike tuned up this week and have the chain replaced so I can do one of those Sunday morning.

If you are replacing the chain, you should also replace the cassette.  Chains and cassettes need to "marry" each other, so its a good thing to replace them at the same time. 

I have two wheels I use. One for the road and one for the trainer. I think my cassettes cost over $200 each so that's a pretty expensive change every 2500 miles or so. How often are you changing your chain and cassette? $500 every few months is rough.

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