SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 62)

Managed Sufferfest Hell Hath No Fury on TrainerRoad (@ 90% intensity) this morning

I was really not sure I was going to be able to do that, given the recent knee surgery.  But I was pleasantly surprised that after a few minutes of warm-up, I was able to kick my butt properly!  Curious if I'll be able to actually do the entire ToS.

Thankfully, my knee doesn't seem to be limiting me too much.

I've never done TR but that sounds like an incredibly strong workout. Way to go!

Nice job.  I did the first one at 90% as well

Nice work Fred!  Do you plan to try to keep the swim volume that high?

Nice work both of you!  I hadn't looked at the details of the ToS until just now - looks tough!

Ok, running question. Still getting ready for the marathon in a couple weeks.  Runs have been good until last week.  Started the swim lessons after a couple hours of getting home, went for my run and cramped up in the left leg.  Stretched and hydrated before going.  Today same thing. Two miles out right leg cramped and left ham string ( ham string went away). 

 Right leg is still sore after 10 hours.  Again, stretched and hydrated. Last weeks run I forced 17 miles and today just ten. Could it be I'm actually using leg muscles in the swim class the right way and the run is making them flare up?  I did 23 miles a few weeks ago and felt great. Go short and I'm falling apart.  Thoughts,

 Another great swim lesson today. Worked on balance in the water. Pretty cool, it even worked.  My legs always went down before, now I can keep them level, with practice.

How are you starting off these runs? I might be a full minute/mile behind my normal average, as I'll feel like garbage after a good swim. And it will take longer to get going. I don't force the pace, but just let it come as it does. Usually feel alright after a few miles, but never as good as running fresh. I've never actually had a cramp though, just really low energy. Swimming after running has made for plenty of cramping. If those cramp hard, then yes, the soreness can last for a day after. Or sometimes a little more.

When exactly are you hydrating? It sounds like right before the run which isn't going to do you much good in the timeframe described as it has to be absorbed into the system. Not just be in the stomach.

I assume that at this point you have begun tapering.  That's good.  Most likely you just have a lot of built-up fatigue and that is what is leading to your cramping.

Yes, the swim is contributing to that.  Your legs are toast for peak marathon training, then you swim for a while (which yes, can make them tired), and then you run on them.  I'm not surprised that you are cramping.

Taper, taper, taper!  It sounds like you have pushed yourself appropriately in your marathon preparation, so now's the time to reap the benefits by RESTING (mostly).

Good morning all.  

90 minute run scheduled today.  I'm going to wimp out and get my wife to drop me off somewhere I can run home from and avoid having to run into the wind at all.  It will make the run a bit hillier than I usually run on though.

It's not really a drill I practice much. 

In regards to your other question, from what bit you have shared here about your running, and without being able to see your training log, I'd wonder about whether you are using a 10% per week build. Also, my long run is only 30 to 40% of my total mileage for the week. It's possible to have a great long run (too long) and then fall apart a few weeks later because of inconsistent build.

When I've had unexplained pain in my past it was usually connected to something like that. 

Your the last person I would call a wimp when it comes to toughing it out.

Day two of the Tour of Sufferlandria done.  Still don't have my bike legs.  Did the first 40 mins at 100% but just couldn't hold it well so lowered to 90% for the last 20.  90% is a bit too easy though.  I am going to try 95% next time. God knows I'll have my bike legs by the end of this...even if I don't end up finishing.

Still raining here so going to see if it calms down a bit and try and get a run in later.  Not sure how bad flooding is in Payson compared to Tucson.  I wouldn't expect flash flooding at least.  Yesterday they had to rescue something like 50 people at a popular hiking/running spot in Tucson due to flash flooding.

This is key--no offense but it's really hard to say anything if we can't see a pattern of training. I'm assuming Byron and Mike know something about your training from their comments, but maybe that's incorrect?

So without seeing anything, I'm also pretty much in Kate-land about the origin of the cramps. The 10% per week build is a very general rule of thumb and applies to training load (so not just intensity or volume but both together). The actual 10% is a general, err-on-the-very-safe-side type thing but it may not apply to any one individual depending on history, goals, and training plan details (and why those details are the way they are).

However, cramps usually occur because someone outran their fitness (went out too hard, didn't pay attention to the conditions, cold or hot or whatever NOT THAT I HAVE EVER DONE THIS LIKE CERTAINLY NOT TODAY)--and as Kate pointed out, this can happen because of an increase in load during the prior week/s, not only that specific run.

Sounds like your hydration is in order from your follow-up response ... something I work on (especially living and training in the equatorial tropics--it was 92 and similar humidity when I started my long run today at 3pm!) is being well hydrated enough that I could do a hard or long session at any time--not just staying well hydrated a few days before because I have a long session or race coming up.

I think that is pretty key.  A lot of folks don't pay attention to their day to day hydration (or nutrition in general really).  Day in and day out my hydration is dialed in.  So it is easy for me to go into a long run and not worry about hydration and I can recover from it quickly.  That's not to say I don't hydrate during the run, but rather I don't have a problem with going to far down the hole

Well, I've been "off the grid" for a while and there's no way I'll be able to catch up.  You guys are rockin' the swim, bike and run, wow I can't wait to read RR's.  I ran a 5K this morning, a Groundhog Run in an underground subtropolis.  My company was a corporate sponsor so you get 4 race entries.  No suprise they look to me to be a runner.....

My co-worker John was a "closet" runner until I found out he could run last year.  Dude runs a sub 20 5K even though he's "out of shape".  He's 41......  I was hoping I could get close to 20 min. since it was flat but run current run shape became evident at about mile 1.5.  I did however swim yesterday morning, then rode a fairly tough 40 miles since it was a wonderful 51 degrees here in Kansas.  The 10-15 mph headwinds made for a tough ride, my first ride over an hour in MONTHS so being able to come in just under 7 min/mile pace is O.K. given my run volume as of late.

My PF pain shows up less and less so hopefully as I start ramping up the run it will remain in hibernation.

That slick coating could be contributing as well. Your muscles have to work harder to keep you stable. It's likely you'll be working some harder than they're used to in spite of reduced pacing It's hard to quantify this by pace. Really have to learn your effort or RPE.

Also not sure if this is everything. If it was on all the cramping runs, maybe. But as Yanti said, it would be helpful to see a bigger picture with logs.

And Yanti, who's Byron? 

"My co-worker John was a "closet" runner until I found out he could run last year.  Dude runs a sub 20 5K even though he's "out of shape".  He's 41......  "

wow sounds like u hv a running partner.. my seventeen year old son didn't break 20 min/ 3 miles on  x-country team till the last race of the season.

Did 16 mi bike ride today. Had fun giving my friend a headstart on his road bike and then catching n passing him. love my tri bike.

Generally as your long run miles go up your shorter runs need to go up as well, otherwise your mileage on those runs just is not sufficient to back up that long run.