Full Vineman Triathlon : Official Thread (Page 7)

Most peoples' hands WILL touch the bottom at least once or twice during the swim.  I've swum the 1.2 mile course five times now and the water depth has always been the same:  Shallow.  At the turnaround on the north end, it can literally be difficult to swim through and lots of people (maybe most) stand up there and dive back in.  Remember that this is a dammed section of the river and they have the ability to control the depth to some degree, so it can't get TOO shallow.  At the start (right by the dam) it is deep enough that you have to tread water and there are a few other sections that are deeper than others.

The rumor is always that they can control the water temp to keep it wetsuit legal via release of water upstream.  Don't know if that's actually true, but every year (this'll be my 4th time on the course) everyone freaks out that it won't be wetsuit legal and every year the water somehow ends up in the low to mid 70s.

And, yup, only 18 days to go!  Ordered my rental wheels last night (first time I'll ever be racing on anything other than my crappy stock Mavic rims).  Long range forecast is up on accuweather.com (not terrific for race day in Windsor right now--high of 89F--but it's still early and that predicted high temp is actually down from the first time I looked).

I remember walking part of the swim at Louisville.  So, it's Louisville with cleaner water.

A few questions for those of you who have done Vineman before....after reading through the Race Guide and the website I can't find answers to these questions:

1. When are cars allowed to leave the Johnson's Beach area to head to the finish area? (My wife and son will come with me to the start and to see my "slow" swim and T1...when are they able to jump in the car and head up to the high school area to park and set up "camp" to observe the bike and run?)

2. Recommendations on spectator set-up? (From the maps it looks like the best spot would be along Reiman Lane...as you bike and run along that little road.) I'm going to have them bring chairs, an umbrella, etc....other thoughts or comments?

My neighbor and his daughter are doing the Vineman 70.3 this Sunday...I'll get a report on the water, roads, etc...

After today we are down to just 17 days!!! 

1.  Depends on where you are parked.  There's nothing stopping anyone from heading south on River Rd (i.e., toward the coast) and you can also go north on River Rd, heading for Windsor (the bike course crosses under River Rd on Sunset to access Westside, so traffic is open on River Rd. heading north out of Guerneville).  However, the intersection at the bridge in the middle of Guerneville (River Rd/116) does tend to back up while bikes are exiting transition onto the course (and remember there are bikes leaving for a very long while betw. the Full and Barb's).

2.  There are definitely a lot of spectators lining the north side of Reiman Lane and both sides of Windsor Rd, south of the high school.  Not a ton of elbow room there as the day progresses, as I recall, but there's a grassy strip on the west side of Windsor Rd that is pretty spectator-setup friendly.  On the bike, I think I remember people even cheering on the median strip on Windsor Rd.

Todd - Thanks for the info! Very helpful. I know my wife is a little nervous about this one....while she's attended a couple of my races in the past, this will be the largest and longest. Here's to hoping we have a mild day in terms of heat!

Thanks again!!

Speaking of which...

The first two times I raced at Vineman ('08, '09), we parked in the same place:  Along the curb on the south side of River Rd, just west of Mill St (meaning just west of the Safeway market).  To do that, though, we've gotten there hella early every time.  (For the relay last year, we stayed walking distance from T1.)

We've also looked...every time...for the supposed parking lot on Armstrong Woods Rd that is described in the Athlete Guide and we've never found it.  I always assumed it was the library lot (you can see all this stuff in Google Maps pretty readily), but there wasn't any parking going on there that I saw.  Anyone know the scoop about that "official" parking lot?  Were we just there too early?  Too late (it was already full)?  Were we blind?  We'll probably show up early and park on the street by the Safeway again, but we're driving from Healdsburg, so I know we'll want a fallback option if we hit more traffic than usual.

How early is hella early?

Transition opens at 5 am...

My wife and I both remember leaving our lodging in Healdsburg in 2009 at 4:30, which would have gotten us parked in Guerneville just before 5.

E.T.A.:  There's a single narrow gate into T1 by the dam and as the morning progresses, a REALLY long single file line to get in piles up.

Some info from my friend who just did the Vineman 70.3 this past Sunday:

1. Roads are rough, a few places, quite bad. He saw lots of people with flats. I'm going to run my tubulars a little lower pressure than normal. (I'm 155 lbs, I usually run at about 105 to 110...I'll likely run 95 to 100 for the race.) I'm putting new tires on and will put Stan's Sealant in both tires prior to installing as a preventative measure.

2. Hills were not as bad as he thought. (We've been training hills.) Lots of rollers and Chalk Hill was not as long and steep as he expected. 

3. Start of bike begins with a very short hill right after the mount area....sounds like most people just jog up the little hill with their bike and mount at the top. I guess we'll see that on race morning so we can decide our plan of attack!

4. Swim does have shallow spots...sounds like first section is about 1/2 way down on the way out....perhaps 70 to 100 yards long, he thought it was about waist deep...and more shallow towards shore of course. 2nd area is at the turnaround, similar depth. 

5. Water was something like 71, so very nice. 

6. Run was also rollers and pretty hot. Don't have a great bike and die on the run!

Wow, under 2 weeks now! Hope everyone's taper/peak is going well. I'm finding that my body is TIRED! Looking forward to getting refreshed over the next week or so!

Just a few thoughts on this...

6.  The run course for the full is hillier than the run course for the half.  Half is a single out-and-back, not 1 1/2 of the Full course.  The section of the 70.3 run that is NOT on the Full is generally flat...and, naturally, the biggest hills on the course are in the Full course (so we see each of them three times, not just once as in the 70.3).

3.  Less of "a hill" out of T1 than a relatively short, pretty steep driveway of sorts...right after you come through a narrow gate with your bike (pretty much no good way to run past someone with your bike there...generally single file).  So no way to get a "flying start" out of T1...unless you run up the short hill and then hop on.  I'll be running up it and I'd recommend that.  Y'all will see when you get there.

2.  The steepest section of Chalk Hill is only about a 1/4 mile, but if you haven't trained hills, it is steep enough.  You will see people walking it on loop #2.  I was out there on the hill last year cheering while waiting for my wife (she was only doing the bike on a relay) and saw a LOT of walking.  For the record, my wife rode it, but she was crying the whole way up...I jogged out into the road to run alongside and give her some encouragement and she was so miserable and focused on not stopping that her only thought (apparently) was "Who's this a-hole running into the road?"...didn't notice me or hear me cheering until I was running along side her. 

1.  Roads are worse some places than others.  A BTer had a very bad crash in 2009 when he went into a wide gap in the center line (on Westside, I believe) trying to pass.  There is a lot of that gap on sections of the course.  (Of course you shouldn't be crossing the center line, but just be careful.)  Lots of launched bottles on Westside, but also elsewhere (including the train tracks in Geyserville).  Generally, the descent from Chalk Hill is pretty crappy, road surface-wise...and it is shaded, so with sunglasses on and broken sunlight/shadows, it is easy to miss patches, cracks, and eroded shoulders, all on a very fast descent.

One more safety related thought:  The roadway up Chalk Hill is very narrow and open to traffic.  Especially when people are on the second loop (or if you encounter some of the BOP Barb's Race participants) and struggling, there is a lot of weaving and three wide passing and cars come through way too fast (and often frustrated that they have been stuck behind bikes)...be very careful there, esp. if you have to pass someone on the final grade--there is two way auto traffic open through there and you will potentially have drivers from behind with road rage going on encountering cars coming from over the blind crest of the hill in the opposite direction.  I saw some scary stuff there while cheering last year (and, actually, driving up to the hill to park and cheer was a nerve-wracking drive with the weaving bikes on the climb).

Great info! Thanks!!

Thats great information.  Just wanted to add a few things.

The roads are very rough.  You really have to keep your eyes on the road and look for really bad spots which are marked with spray paint (or were last year).  Be very careful with swerving to avoid things as the roads are open to traffic and I saw a few very close calls.  With the rough roads, there will be ejected water bottles and other junk on the roads so watch for that as well.  There was a big bump near chalk hill and there was about a dozen water bottles littered around the road.

When I ran up the hill out of T1 it was impossible to ride up it.  There were way too many people and I think any attempt to ride up would have been a fail.

Last year I did not walk any of the swim because I wanted to see if I could swim it all.  This year I know I can do it so I'm over that and will probably walk portions to minimize calf cramping.  If you do swim through the "walk areas" be aware that many will be walking and be ready for someone to just stand up in front of you.  I think I swam faster than most trudging through so if you are a faster swimmer pick a line to the side of the line of marchers (I went to the inside).  Also, if you swim very close to the inside (your left) be careful of people drifting over too far who are coming in the opposite direction.  I had a few people going the opposite direction over in the flow of swimmers which was a little scary.

The run course this year for the 70.3 was different.  Its a big loop that many said was easier than the old course.  I believe we will be on the old course.  Be prepared for a lot of up and down on the three out and backs.  The worst is about 3.5 miles out.

Time is certainly flying.  We leave a week from tomorrow.  I really want to get this over with.

Good point...I'd forgotten that I literally ran into the back of a big ol' Clydesdale last year who just stood up in front of me suddenly halfway upstream as I was going to pass him!  Thought I'd sprained my wrist slamming into his back.

Both of these are true...the new section of the 70.3 was dead flat (by the airport).  It was actually just past where we'll turnaround on our loops so doesn't change our course from previous years.  And, yeah, agree that the worst hill is just past 3 miles out...but it's a hill in both directions (down then up going out, so you get the same in reverse coming back...X3). 

Thanks for all the great info!  It really helpds us folks from across the country try and get an idea of what we will need to do on race day.

I was wondering about this tip on tire pressure:

Wouldn't you want to leave the pressure high if you run clinchers so you don't get pinch flats? In the past I have run tubulars and I've run lower pressure, but I tend to get pinch flats in training rides if I run low pressure.

Last year, neither changing tent was in a great location.  In T2, it is near the exit to the run so if you change in it you have to run back into transition area to drop your stuff back off.  They didn't really monitor where you put your stuff so maybe you could find someplace closer to the tent to toss your stuff.  I changed in T1 and T2 but I wore Nike Pro shorts under wetsuit, biking shorts, and running shorts so I could just change at my bike. 

I think this sums it up pretty well:

"Road surface makes a big difference. The smoother the surface the more pressure you can run. On a rough surface, though, more pressure will actually slow you down. How can this be, you ask?

You need to think of your tire as a spring. When you hit an obstruction, your tire, just like a spring, compresses. Then like a spring, the tire rebounds. If you have too much air in the tires, you will find your bike bouncing off every little obstruction instead of smoothly rolling over them. Insofar as your wheel meets an obstruction somewhat before bottom, dead, center, you are actually rebounding back! In other words, that bounce is actually a braking action which is slowing you down. Furthermore, too much air will also cause fatigue as ever little bump in the road is transmitted through your bike into your body.

Of course, too little air in your tire will cause you to get a pinch flat because the rim will pinch the tube against the obstruction making a pair of holes that look like a snake bite.

The perfect amount of air will cause your tire to conform to an obstruction and roll over it with minimal rebound. Obviously, it will prevent pinch flatting, as well.

So, what is the perfect pressure? Well, one thing for sure is it much less than the stated maximum on the tire or the rim. I weight about 165 lbs. On a really smooth road, I'll use around 100 lbs. On rougher roads, I ride with around 90 lbs. If you weight more, put a bit more air in. If you weigh less, try a bit less. In a few rides, you should find the pressure that seems to suit you and the roads you ride nicely."

I'm not a WTC fan, but this is one area where I'd say their races are a bit better resourced than VM...big changing tents at branded IM races (which you actually had to go through, at least in St George)...VM not so much.  I didn't change last time at VM (not planning to this time, either), so I didn't even really notice where the T1 changing tent was (by the swim exit, though, I think), but definitely nothing on the order of the circus tent sized ones they had at IMSG.

The whole changing tent setup at VM looked to be very, very time consuming because of the locations.  These are very large transition areas that might involve a lot of extra running from bike spot to changing tents.  Out of curiosity, I'd be interested to hear from someone who actually used the changing tents how that went for them. 

You are right about lower pressure in clinchers will increase the odds of a pinch flat. I'm running tubulars most of the time...no pinch flat concerns. The Zipp website has a cart for their Tangente tires, both clinchers and tubulars...based upon your weight, etc. Essentially they recommend lowering tire pressure by 3-5 PSI for rough roads or wet conditions. Here is the link to the chart for clinchers...I'm assuming most other tire mfg will be similar: http://www.zipp.com/accessories/detail.php?ID=72

Hope everyone is tapering nicely and trying to get rid of the tired legs feeling! I was getting worried a few days ago, but my legs are feeling more and more rested and fresh with the lower volume and intensity...thank goodness!!

I'm doing my favorite taper activity:  Running back and forth to orthopedist, chiro, and ART therapist to deal with strained muscle alongside sacroilliac joint...

(I love the ortho that I went to...saw him previously for hip bursitis in 2010...felt like I was at the checkout at the supermarket with the shopping basket full of prescriptions I left with this morning:  a once-daily NSAID, a course of the same oral corticosteroid we used for the bursitis just in case this does turn out to be joint- or nerve-related, an ever-so-thoughtful script for Vicodin for how crappy I'm going to feel with this post-race, and a referral for PT.)