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2013-01-21 9:16 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
I will now officially accept the label "runner". I've just lost a toenail for no apparent reason. ??. Now to accept the label "triathlete" ......May take a little longer. ??. Haha. Who has today off? Hoping for a good day but need a place to drop off the kids!!


2013-01-21 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

Brad - The hot spots are the ball of my foot.  I tried tighter stiffer shoes per the suggestion at the bike store.  That didn't work.  It seems to show up when I'm working against a lot of resistence.  Easy pedalling does cause that problem at all.

Elena - What has to fall off for us to get the official "triathlete" title?  (and welcome to the "runner" club)



Edited by mkennedy0525 2013-01-21 10:40 AM
2013-01-21 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
mkennedy0525 - 2013-01-21 10:39 AM

Brad - The hot spots are the ball of my foot.  I tried tighter stiffer shoes per the suggestion at the bike store.  That didn't work.  It seems to show up when I'm working against a lot of resistence.  Easy pedalling does cause that problem at all.

Elena - What has to fall off for us to get the official "triathlete" title?  (and welcome to the "runner" club)



If you've done a triathlon, you're a triathlete.....none of that "You have to do an Ironman" or "You have to qualify for Kona" crap around here. Do one and you're a triathlete.

Michelle....not sure of the "hot spot" situation. Is it possible that you're rubbing when you're at a hard resistance? Is it when you're on the trainer or when you're out on the road?

2013-01-21 1:34 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed


It's been brought to my attention *cough* Co-mentor James *cough* that I absolutly suck at logging my workouts.

Well....I log them on my blog, a-thank you very much-a.


So....if you would like to know more about me, my workouts, my thoughts on life, etc.....will you please....pretty please.....pretty pretty please.......follow my blog. You can even sign up for updates sent directly to your e-mail.

2013-01-21 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Open

For those of you who want to improve on the swim, one thing that has helped other people I know is to find a Masters Swim Team in your area. Here is the national page: http://www.usms.org/

They alsoo have a page specifically dedicated to triathletes: http://www.usms.org/content/triathlon?utm_campaign=top_nav&utm_medium=training

And on stroke technique: http://www.usms.org/articles/articlesearch.php?CategoryID[]=2&utm_campaign=top_nav&utm_medium=training

There is also a lot of other good information and you should be able to find local clubs near you. Swimming is a very difficult sport to learn on your own. You really need someone with knowledge of the strokes to help you get your technique down. Swimming is all about technique - improving technique takes time off of your swim quickly and, more importantly, drains less energy because you become more efficient in the water, allowing you to keep a greater reserve for the other events.

Just go and get wet is about the worst advice you can get - you can practice all day and just get frustrated and tired without making much of a difference on your swim - drilling proper technique and applying it during your race is the key.

Take a look at the drills section to: http://www.usms.org/articles/articlesearch.php?CategoryID[]=5&utm_campaign=top_nav&utm_medium=training

The reason that crawl is the stroke of choice is because it is the fastest and most efficient stroke to use - butterfly is arguable as fast, but a whole lot harder to do (thus, demanding more energy for the same output so not as efficient).

Anyway, a few minutes a week with a coach or friendly competitive swimmer can help alot. You have to practice a lot to get the muscle memory down - that's what the drills will help you do.

Here is an online article that will help you, as well (by the way, most people don't call it crawl, they call it freestyle) about proper freestyle techniques: http://www.active.com/swimming/Articles/10-Elements-of-a-Perfect-Freestyle-Stroke-Part-1

Hope this stuff helps. I'll hit you up for bicycling and running tips in the future!

Bob

 

2013-01-21 3:41 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
bradleyd3 - 2013-01-22 5:20 AM

mkennedy0525 - 2013-01-21 10:39 AM

Brad - The hot spots are the ball of my foot.  I tried tighter stiffer shoes per the suggestion at the bike store.  That didn't work.  It seems to show up when I'm working against a lot of resistence.  Easy pedalling does cause that problem at all.

Elena - What has to fall off for us to get the official "triathlete" title?  (and welcome to the "runner" club)



If you've done a triathlon, you're a triathlete.....none of that "You have to do an Ironman" or "You have to qualify for Kona" crap around here. Do one and you're a triathlete.

Michelle....not sure of the "hot spot" situation. Is it possible that you're rubbing when you're at a hard resistance? Is it when you're on the trainer or when you're out on the road?



For sure - finish a tri and you're at triathlete.

Can't really help with hot spots - used to get them with my old running shoes just on the outside of my second little toe on each foot. Those shoes (Brooks ravenna 2) were a bit tighter than my current ones (ravenna 3). Try bodyglide/vasaline???


2013-01-21 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
EV3110 - 2013-01-22 1:16 AM

I will now officially accept the label "runner". I've just lost a toenail for no apparent reason. ??. Now to accept the label "triathlete" ......May take a little longer. ??. Haha. Who has today off? Hoping for a good day but need a place to drop off the kids!!


Thankfully I haven't lost any toenails (*touch wood*). Keep your toenails trimmed and without pointy edges and you should be right.

I had a long ride 2hrs scheduled for Sunday, but had some chores to do so decided to make it a day off. Was the last day of my recovery week so I figured no harm done. Probably actually helped as I had a decent run/strenght session Monday arvo and a really good swim this morning (Tues).

Keep training hard everyone!
2013-01-21 4:13 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

Busy night tonight, every third Monday, my family and a couple of families from our church go down to the homeless shelter downtown and serve food. It is a great experience for us and the kids, then we will come home, eat, homework and get the kids in bed, then I will hit the trainer for a good solid ride!

Tomorrow is a short 1000 yard swim, trying to decide what time goal I want...

2013-01-21 4:18 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
jford2309 - 2013-01-21 4:13 PM

Busy night tonight, every third Monday, my family and a couple of families from our church go down to the homeless shelter downtown and serve food. It is a great experience for us and the kids, then we will come home, eat, homework and get the kids in bed, then I will hit the trainer for a good solid ride!

Tomorrow is a short 1000 yard swim, trying to decide what time goal I want...




Go slow....15 minutes.

2013-01-21 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
mkennedy0525 - 2013-01-21 10:39 AM

Brad - The hot spots are the ball of my foot.  I tried tighter stiffer shoes per the suggestion at the bike store.  That didn't work.  It seems to show up when I'm working against a lot of resistence.  Easy pedalling does cause that problem at all.

 

Michelle - I still think cleat position may be the source of the hot spot since the ball of the foot is over, nearly over the cleat and I think you said you had new shoes on a different page.  Just moving that cleat 2-3mm can help dramatically I promise.  Just take both shoes to bike shop and they will do it for free if you ask....good luck - got to solve this riddle for sure.

2013-01-22 7:00 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
Thanks.  I will get my cleats moved tonight since my training for the day is done and I have a free evening!!!!!!!


2013-01-22 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

Got in a good workout last night.....and had a great dinner.

Check out my blog for my "logging" of the workout and what I made for dinner.....nom-nom-nom.



2013-01-22 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
bradleyd3 - 2013-01-21 4:18 PM
jford2309 - 2013-01-21 4:13 PM

Busy night tonight, every third Monday, my family and a couple of families from our church go down to the homeless shelter downtown and serve food. It is a great experience for us and the kids, then we will come home, eat, homework and get the kids in bed, then I will hit the trainer for a good solid ride!

Tomorrow is a short 1000 yard swim, trying to decide what time goal I want...

Go slow....15 minutes.

 

I wish! I did a 1000 yd time trial this morning and came in at 18:41 or 1:52/100. I will be working to get that down in the 1:40's by May!

2013-01-22 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
I have a confession to make... I don't monitor my heart rate during training. Ever. Is this terrible. I wonder if I should. I've got the gadget for it so Why don't I? Or the better question is why SHOULD I. I want to! But not sure why I should. This is my 3rd yr doing tris. For my runs: I'll run one long run, a short recovery run a day or 2 followings and a medium run or sprint work. I'm fairly consistent with this when I begin any training plan. When it comes to swim or bike I just do it... I swim and bike. It's not @ a leisurely pac.. I'd say at an RPE of 7ish I don't monitor anything and do no specific workout...(and I'm super slow- 2:15 per 100yd and 14 mph on the bike. Toward he end of he season I may be riding close to 16 mph). So my question is DO I and SHOULD I monitor my HR?

Edited by EV3110 2013-01-22 11:15 AM
2013-01-22 1:22 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
EV3110 - 2013-01-22 11:12 AM

I have a confession to make... I don't monitor my heart rate during training. Ever. Is this terrible. I wonder if I should. I've got the gadget for it so Why don't I? Or the better question is why SHOULD I. I want to! But not sure why I should. This is my 3rd yr doing tris. For my runs: I'll run one long run, a short recovery run a day or 2 followings and a medium run or sprint work. I'm fairly consistent with this when I begin any training plan. When it comes to swim or bike I just do it... I swim and bike. It's not @ a leisurely pac.. I'd say at an RPE of 7ish I don't monitor anything and do no specific workout...(and I'm super slow- 2:15 per 100yd and 14 mph on the bike. Toward he end of he season I may be riding close to 16 mph). So my question is DO I and SHOULD I monitor my HR?


OOOOMMMMMGGGG.....you are not a real triathlete and I'm stripping you of your "Runner" title.




I don't heart rate train, there are others that don't. I run by how my body tells me.

2013-01-22 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
Going in for my bike fit on Friday!!  However I will be unable to train for about 2 weeks as of Friday afternoon.  I am having an "elective" surgery done so swimming, running and especially sitting on a bike will be out of the question.


2013-01-22 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

EV3110 - 2013-01-22 11:12 AM I have a confession to make... I don't monitor my heart rate during training. Ever. Is this terrible. I wonder if I should. I've got the gadget for it so Why don't I? Or the better question is why SHOULD I. I want to! But not sure why I should. This is my 3rd yr doing tris. For my runs: I'll run one long run, a short recovery run a day or 2 followings and a medium run or sprint work. I'm fairly consistent with this when I begin any training plan. When it comes to swim or bike I just do it... I swim and bike. It's not @ a leisurely pac.. I'd say at an RPE of 7ish I don't monitor anything and do no specific workout...(and I'm super slow- 2:15 per 100yd and 14 mph on the bike. Toward he end of he season I may be riding close to 16 mph). So my question is DO I and SHOULD I monitor my HR?

 

This is my first year using a HR monitor. I used to train by RPE only. If you are truly using the RPE, then you should see the gains you are wanting. 

2013-01-22 4:33 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
jford2309 - 2013-01-23 7:54 AM

EV3110 - 2013-01-22 11:12 AM I have a confession to make... I don't monitor my heart rate during training. Ever. Is this terrible. I wonder if I should. I've got the gadget for it so Why don't I? Or the better question is why SHOULD I. I want to! But not sure why I should. This is my 3rd yr doing tris. For my runs: I'll run one long run, a short recovery run a day or 2 followings and a medium run or sprint work. I'm fairly consistent with this when I begin any training plan. When it comes to swim or bike I just do it... I swim and bike. It's not @ a leisurely pac.. I'd say at an RPE of 7ish I don't monitor anything and do no specific workout...(and I'm super slow- 2:15 per 100yd and 14 mph on the bike. Toward he end of he season I may be riding close to 16 mph). So my question is DO I and SHOULD I monitor my HR?

 

This is my first year using a HR monitor. I used to train by RPE only. If you are truly using the RPE, then you should see the gains you are wanting. 



Training by RPE or "feel" is pretty old school, and IMO should only be used for novices/anyone who doesn't particularly care about improving. Don't mean to offend anyone so bear with me while I explain.

First - why RPE is less good. RPE is 'rate of perceived exertion', ie it is your 'perceived' effort, and is subject to change based on factors such as fatigue, etc. Many will argue that HR varies with fatigue, which is true, but certainly not to the same regard that your perception will vary over a 10 point scale. EV3110 - you said yourself '7-ish' - that's pretty arbitrary if you ask me... For those in their first few years of tri's, I believe RPE is fine, as most of your workouts will (or should) be more or less steady state RPE 4-6 workouts to build an aerobic base. But when you are getting faster and more advanced, the steady workouts will need to be changed for more intense training (for short distances). Long steady training does still have it's place. Monitoring training load is also difficult with RPE because even if you were to use an RPE x time method for monitoring, the difference for a 1 hour workout could be huge! Eg 60mins x RPE 5 = 300, vs 60 mins x RPE 6 =360.

HR is a better measure as it measures what is actually happening in the body, not what you 'perceive' is happening. However, HR is only useful when you have something to compare it against, like a lactate threshold heart rate (check out Joe Friel's blog/Training Bible/Training peaks for details if you don't know what this is). This is your best method when it comes to HR training. DO NOT USE MAX HEART RATE (eg 220-your age) as this is so far wrong more often than not. HR training also better enables you to track effort and workload, eg using TSS score (again - Joe Friel and Training peask).

Many coaches will say that For cycling, power is an even better measure, (and pace for running) as it measures output (speed) rather than input (effort/hr). The arguement here is that you don't win a race by having the highest HR or RPE, but the fastest speed. IMO this is more for advanced athletes.

In summary, HR is better than RPE IF YOU USE IT CORRECTLY. Just wearing an HR monitor and writing the number down is a waste of time. You need to know your zones and how these compare to effort and the effort you should be doing for a given workout.

Novices - RPE is fine.
Everyone else - use HR.
2013-01-22 8:51 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

WOW!  Stuart nailed the HR, RPE reply perfectly!  If I may, I want to add a short note since I have been trng with a HR monitor for years (cycling is my background).

  • HR monitoring is a great tool and toy to keep your interest.
  • I recommend it for the bike so you can stay in zone 2 when just logging some nice mileage, but to get faster, you have to train for it.  Zone trng is essential for quickest improvement.
  • Quick start: follow Stuart's formula for LT and click on a website to establish some zones. Accuracy is not paramount b/c you can adjust them during the season.
  • Next ride, watch your HR and try to stay within a zone as you ride (prob zone 2 or low 3) as we do base.  
  • I love watching and monitoring - helps with boredom!
  • As Stuart said, don't worry about power meters...costly and not needed at our level.
  • I would be very surprised if you trained with one and you did not like it after a while of logging data and doing different workouts.  I know when I am racing when I hit zone 4, I have about 3-4  minutes to make an adjustment or my race will end soon...I can ride all day below 3.8, but not above 4.2.   It is like a warning light....takes my ego out of the decision making.
  • Also, as he said - want to learn more?  Check out Friel and the Training Bible.  That is the methodology I use and have used for 7 yrs on the bike.

fun group....hope all are well and had a nice weekend.

And that surgery thing...start the ice before you need it; good luck!



Edited by Todd13 2013-01-22 8:53 PM
2013-01-22 10:48 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
I did the testing last season. It's in my log. I think I ran 4-5 times and paid attention to what zone I was working in. I had planned to test again (to be sure the #'s were consistent but never for around to it. I'll probably read then reread your info and give it a whirl. Maybe. I want improvement dammit! :$Run2012-06-20 HR/Pace l1 - Recovery 117 - 150 2 - Extensive Endurance 151 - 161 3 - Intensive Endurance 162 - 169 4 - Sub-Threshold 170 - 176 5a - SuperThreshold 177 - 181 5b - Anaerobic Endurance 182 - 186 5c - Power 187 - 191
2013-01-22 11:09 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
Sorry all my heart rate info was clustered together in that last post. ..


2013-01-23 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

I agree that HR training is good, but I disagree if you are saying RPE has no place in training. Both if used properly can be advantageous to training.

RPE: Rating of perceived exertion is an easier way to assess intensity than heart rate because it does not require a timer or heart rate monitor. RPE is relative to individual perceptions of difficulty and individual physiological makeup. Its drawback lies in being subject to variance in individual tolerance for discomfort, but the more it is used, the more useful it becomes for giving a comparative perception of difficulty. One must be honest with their RPE scores and should stay between the 5-8 levels during training. (and those scores are different for everyone, thus making it difficult to measure)

HR: Most people will use the old ancient scale of 220 - your age to get the max HR zone and base everything off that. If you are not using a Lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR) test to determine your zones, than a HR monitor will only be a recording device for your run. You will need to do a LTHR test for running, biking and swimming for this to be accurate and it should be done every few weeks, because hopefully you are making gains from all your training.

 

So to say that RPE training is not good is something I disagree with in a flat statement. One may be better than the other, but I know gains can be made using either. 

2013-01-23 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

Listen to James - both work. 

I use RPE for running, HR zones for bike and I try not to drown in the pool (not far from truth).

I like collecting data and reviewing it as I go - keeps my mind occupied. 

2013-01-23 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed
For me, HR training helped me build speed in my running.  It is amazing how often we go out running too fast.  It was very difficult for me to slow down and get in the right heart rate zones but I did it.  I was told to give it a good 6 week try.  I have been setting PR's in every distance since then so far.  Your heart knows better than your mind how "tired" you are.  You will get the most benefit from speed work if you are truly rested.

Edited by mkennedy0525 2013-01-23 11:13 AM
2013-01-23 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: JFord Bradleyd3 2013 Spring Group- Closed

One thing I have done in past groups is come up with some team goals, like complete an IM distance in your training for Feb, or something like that.

 

Anybody interested or got any ideas?

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