Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open (Page 7)
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2014-05-27 9:02 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 968 Cape Coral, FL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open What is your take on Chinese carbon clinchers. I have read a bazillion posts and all I have heard is the good luck people are having. There was the few posts that were bashing them but it turns out they had never seen or ever rode a pair. The price is hard to beat and with the positive things I'm reading it may be worth a go. They offer a long warranty on them from defects and have over 6500 feedback with 99.3% positive on eBay. Everyone seems to be happy with them. The reason I won't/can't drop $1000++ bucks on wheels is if I buy a pair I want to train on them and get my money worth. If I spend $400 and get 5k+ miles out of them and hit a pot hole it will hurt a lot less than $1000++. I never understood buying fancy wheels and having them sit in your garage. Thoughts? Edited by Burd 2014-05-27 9:03 AM |
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2014-05-27 9:15 AM in reply to: Burd |
Veteran 238 New Mexico | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Burd Originally posted by thor67 Okay Jared, put your money down and sign up for the Ute the Man Tri ASAP! Make the commitment! Just think of it as a cleansing...not being sick.... Originally posted by jlangene Originally posted by thor67 I am shooting for the Ute the Man sprint tri at Ute Lake Aug 2nd. This will be my first tri as I failed to get signed up last year. My training program should wrap a full week before the race, which is good because I'm not getting any runs in today. I think your stomach bug traveled online to our house the youngest and wife were sick the last couple days and the older one and I got it last night... I see the postings lagging in comparison to previous groups. I will say that the more involved you get the more likely you are to succeed in your goals, especially if you are trying to do your first triathlon. My question for everyone is when is you first(next) tri of the year? Location? Distance? For me: Invermere, BC Canada. +1 what Thor said. Sign up and commit. You know I was thinking, this could be a good way to lose a few pounds, not being able to keep anything down lol! |
2014-05-27 10:28 AM in reply to: thor67 |
New user 180 Auburn, AL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by thor67 I see the postings lagging in comparison to previous groups. I will say that the more involved you get the more likely you are to succeed in your goals, especially if you are trying to do your first triathlon. My question for everyone is when is you first(next) tri of the year? Location? Distance? For me: Invermere, BC Canada.
First race for me this year will be the Calloway Gardens Sprint in Pine Mountain, GA. This was my first ever tri last year and I hope to improve on my time. |
2014-05-27 10:30 AM in reply to: podemma |
New user 180 Auburn, AL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open I have some mild jet lag after flying in from India on Saturday. I keep waking up at 4:00 AM and not being able to go back to sleep. I have decided to use this to my advantage and get some training in. The last 2 day have have managed to get a workout in while everyone else around was still asleep. Gotta take what life throws at you and do your best. |
2014-05-27 11:41 AM in reply to: podemma |
61 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open I did no training while on vacation. But I did walk a lot, and drink plenty of fine beers (Goose Island Green Line, Lagunitas IPA are of note). Back at it this morning for a sweltering 4 miles. |
2014-05-27 11:45 AM in reply to: #4996400 |
462 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Jared +1 for sign up. Once you do that it becomes more real. |
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2014-05-27 3:02 PM in reply to: badmo77a |
27 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by badmo77a Originally posted by Qua17 Originally posted by Brodzki Here's hoping you guys will have me. NAME: Luke STORY: I started doing triathlons last year. I played varisty rugby at Carleton University and went to OFSAA in 1999 and 2000 for the 50m butterfly. I started tris for a greater challenge. Last year I did a try a try in 49:58 and a sprint in 2:15:57 FAMILY STATUS: I've been married to my wife Barbara for 3.5 yrs and have 2 boys. Noah who is two and Michael who is almost 3 months CURRENT TRAINING: I have been just trying to be active but have really started to train more and harder THIS YEAR'S RACES/EVENTS: Niagara Falls Barrelman 70.3 on September 21 As for beer I like to occassionally browse the beer section of the LCBO and buy anything that I haven't tried yet Luke - We would love to have you! As a dad of three, I can't imagine what it's like to train for a HIM with an infant. I would be so tired from waking up every night that I might fall asleep on my bike. Good luck with your training for Barrelman - let us know how we can help! Hey Luke. I live in Niagara region and so have Barrelman and the RoseCity Triathlon on my long term radar. Hope your run training goes well, the Barrelman run course has some hills! I know i saw that and I don't know how it will affect my overall time. I also worry about the extremely strong head winds in the first half of the bike. I have ran the around the bay 30k twice and kilometers 20-30 are all hills so hopefullt that will help with some guidance |
2014-05-27 3:02 PM in reply to: 0 |
256 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Ok, just checking in. So last week's goals were: 1) Swim twice 2) Run three times--once with a swim 3) Get one solo 15 mile bike ride in and assess top speed I can maintain. 4) Find a decent pair of tri shorts. Unfortunately due to a sick cat, my plans were derailed. I got one good swim in, and two good runs. However, I got a ton of biking in due to the change in schedule...one fifteen miler and I also was able to get to the site of my tri and do the 13 mile course there, as well as a couple of other good rides. Super glad I did the "practice" run of the tri, as I was told and read that it was flat. Soooo, it's *fairly* flat, but that's not FLAT, and when you're doing the bike on a hybrid, it makes a difference. I'll know to train for the hills but also not to have unrealistic expectations for the time on the bike. A couple of the hills are decent and long. I also had an epic failure for my first real Brick workout. I'd done a couple of them while on vacation in Mexico the other week, 6-7 miles on the bike and 2-3 on the treadmill....really good speeds on the treadmill with no transition difficulties. So apparently I was somewhat cocky....and planned to do the next one after my 15 miler last week. Note, this was my longest training ride yet and I was focusing on speed. Figured no problem, I can run 3 miles! Left the dog in the car waiting for me while I did the bike, racked the bike up, and took her out for a run. I got about half a mile on legs that were not very responsive to my brain's commands and said to both the dog and myself...."Gee, I guess this is why I'm supposed to train for this transition". Needless to say, we walked the next mile and then went out for a burrito while I kicked myself. I was however, successful in the tri shorts mission. So this week's goals are: 1) Three 800m swims 2) Three runs, one as a brick after a shorter bike 3) Three bikes...two longer, one short with above run. Sandi Edited by sandishr 2014-05-27 3:02 PM |
2014-05-27 3:33 PM in reply to: Qua17 |
Veteran 288 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Qua17 Speaking of support - I've got an interview today for a job teaching Middle School Humanities. For those of you who believe in the power of prayer - please pray that I have a good interview. For those of you who don't - do me a favor and keep your fingers crossed. Have a great day everyone! I know what it's like to "still" be looking (currently unhappily employed - long story) I hope it works out for you. Tom |
2014-05-27 3:46 PM in reply to: sandishr |
Veteran 288 | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by sandishr Ok, just checking in. So last week's goals were: 1) Swim twice 2) Run three times--once with a swim 3) Get one solo 15 mile bike ride in and assess top speed I can maintain. 4) Find a decent pair of tri shorts. Unfortunately due to a sick cat, my plans were derailed. I got one good swim in, and two good runs. However, I got a ton of biking in due to the change in schedule...one fifteen miler and I also was able to get to the site of my tri and do the 13 mile course there, as well as a couple of other good rides. Super glad I did the "practice" run of the tri, as I was told and read that it was flat. Soooo, it's *fairly* flat, but that's not FLAT, and when you're doing the bike on a hybrid, it makes a difference. I'll know to train for the hills but also not to have unrealistic expectations for the time on the bike. A couple of the hills are decent and long. I also had an epic failure for my first real Brick workout. I'd done a couple of them while on vacation in Mexico the other week, 6-7 miles on the bike and 2-3 on the treadmill....really good speeds on the treadmill with no transition difficulties. So apparently I was somewhat cocky....and planned to do the next one after my 15 miler last week. Note, this was my longest training ride yet and I was focusing on speed. Figured no problem, I can run 3 miles! Left the dog in the car waiting for me while I did the bike, racked the bike up, and took her out for a run. I got about half a mile on legs that were not very responsive to my brain's commands and said to both the dog and myself...."Gee, I guess this is why I'm supposed to train for this transition". Needless to say, we walked the next mile and then went out for a burrito while I kicked myself. I was however, successful in the tri shorts mission. So this week's goals are: 1) Three 800m swims 2) Three runs, one as a brick after a shorter bike 3) Three bikes...two longer, one short with above run. Sandi I feel for you, getting off a bike and then running does the same to me. It will work out at race time. Tom |
2014-05-27 5:00 PM in reply to: TomsTri-ing |
Regular 866 Central Coast, CA | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Checking in after a long weekend: Saturday: 22 mile bike ride out to the beach and back. It was overcast so I didn't take a picture like I did last time On my return trip I was passed going up a hill by what looked to be a more seasoned cyclist. My hill strength needs work so I didn't think much of it but it did give me a "rabbit" to chase. Over a couple miles I gradually gained ground on him. As we made our way out of the canyon and into some flats we hit a slight headwind, my aero position gave me an advantage and I was able to pass him and maintain my "lead" back into town. Sunday: Fun 6 mile run out to the same beach with a couple of running friends. We ran out to the end of the pier and back, dodging tourists who were enjoying the beautiful weather. Monday: Short 2 mile hike / trail run to explore some hiking trails near my house and try trail running for the first time. Wow what a difference terrain makes, I'm looking forward to more! Beer: One of my favorite local breweries (Firestone) hit a home run with their "Session IPA". Lighter on the alcohol than most IPA's with tons of flavor and fresh hops. This will be my favorite for the summer, I'm sure. |
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2014-05-27 5:53 PM in reply to: MOlsen |
Veteran 706 Illinois | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Hey folks: On vacation in Boston, enjoying the taper before Rev3 Quassy. Went to Sam Adams today for a visit - nice operation, but like the beer itself, just fine. Went to a local pub they recommended and got a free pint glass (in a round about fashion) and enjoyed a Grumpy Monk - a Belgian IPA (which makes sense, if odd). Also picked up two bottles of their small-batch barrel room collection - Tetravis, a barrel-aged quad and their New World, a tripel. Both tip the scales at over 10% ABV, so those should be some good evenings. Going to hit Harpoon tomorrow, get a massage, then hit a few other breweries with DQ. Swam yesterday, in the ocean for the first time. A few thoughts: **** it's cold. Colder than that. Then, after my fee and face went numb, it wasn't so bad. Until there were jellyfish. Non-stinging moon jellys, but still, just after I got past the open water panic, I got hit with jellyfish panic. I was coherent enough to think "I touched it, and I'm not screaming, and I can stand in this water, so it's probably okay and safe." Still, that was it for me. My wetsuit works, I remembered that I can swim, and my face was numb, so that meant it was time to call it a day. |
2014-05-28 4:05 AM in reply to: Brodzki |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Brodzki Originally posted by badmo77a Originally posted by Qua17 Originally posted by Brodzki Here's hoping you guys will have me. NAME: Luke STORY: I started doing triathlons last year. I played varisty rugby at Carleton University and went to OFSAA in 1999 and 2000 for the 50m butterfly. I started tris for a greater challenge. Last year I did a try a try in 49:58 and a sprint in 2:15:57 FAMILY STATUS: I've been married to my wife Barbara for 3.5 yrs and have 2 boys. Noah who is two and Michael who is almost 3 months CURRENT TRAINING: I have been just trying to be active but have really started to train more and harder THIS YEAR'S RACES/EVENTS: Niagara Falls Barrelman 70.3 on September 21 As for beer I like to occassionally browse the beer section of the LCBO and buy anything that I haven't tried yet Luke - We would love to have you! As a dad of three, I can't imagine what it's like to train for a HIM with an infant. I would be so tired from waking up every night that I might fall asleep on my bike. Good luck with your training for Barrelman - let us know how we can help! Hey Luke. I live in Niagara region and so have Barrelman and the RoseCity Triathlon on my long term radar. Hope your run training goes well, the Barrelman run course has some hills! I know i saw that and I don't know how it will affect my overall time. I also worry about the extremely strong head winds in the first half of the bike. I have ran the around the bay 30k twice and kilometers 20-30 are all hills so hopefullt that will help with some guidance If you can handle the end of Around the Bay then nothing at the falls should freak you out too bad. Prevailing wind will be an issue for the out section of that ride. Its unprotected. The return section is longer tho! 40+ kms of tail wind before the run can't be bad. |
2014-05-28 4:06 AM in reply to: Qua17 |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Qua17 Speaking of support - I've got an interview today for a job teaching Middle School Humanities. For those of you who believe in the power of prayer - please pray that I have a good interview. For those of you who don't - do me a favor and keep your fingers crossed. Have a great day everyone! ??????? |
2014-05-28 8:23 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 604 Cleburne, Texas | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by mirthfuldragon Hey folks: On vacation in Boston, enjoying the taper before Rev3 Quassy. Went to Sam Adams today for a visit - nice operation, but like the beer itself, just fine. Went to a local pub they recommended and got a free pint glass (in a round about fashion) and enjoyed a Grumpy Monk - a Belgian IPA (which makes sense, if odd). Also picked up two bottles of their small-batch barrel room collection - Tetravis, a barrel-aged quad and their New World, a tripel. Both tip the scales at over 10% ABV, so those should be some good evenings. Going to hit Harpoon tomorrow, get a massage, then hit a few other breweries with DQ. Swam yesterday, in the ocean for the first time. A few thoughts: **** it's cold. Colder than that. Then, after my fee and face went numb, it wasn't so bad. Until there were jellyfish. Non-stinging moon jellys, but still, just after I got past the open water panic, I got hit with jellyfish panic. I was coherent enough to think "I touched it, and I'm not screaming, and I can stand in this water, so it's probably okay and safe." Still, that was it for me. My wetsuit works, I remembered that I can swim, and my face was numb, so that meant it was time to call it a day. Man, spending your tapper in Boston touring pubs. That's how it's done!! I'm taking off all week and it feels kind of nice. Going to Missouri for a 50 mile canoe trip over the weekend. Hope everyone had a save Memorial Day weekend. Be careful out there on the roads. We had a cyclist be victim to a hit and run, he didn't make it. Edited by HelmoAlkou 2014-05-28 8:27 AM |
2014-05-28 8:59 AM in reply to: mirthfuldragon |
Extreme Veteran 968 Cape Coral, FL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by mirthfuldragon Hey folks: On vacation in Boston, enjoying the taper before Rev3 Quassy. Went to Sam Adams today for a visit - nice operation, but like the beer itself, just fine. Went to a local pub they recommended and got a free pint glass (in a round about fashion) and enjoyed a Grumpy Monk - a Belgian IPA (which makes sense, if odd). Also picked up two bottles of their small-batch barrel room collection - Tetravis, a barrel-aged quad and their New World, a tripel. Both tip the scales at over 10% ABV, so those should be some good evenings. Going to hit Harpoon tomorrow, get a massage, then hit a few other breweries with DQ. Swam yesterday, in the ocean for the first time. A few thoughts: **** it's cold. Colder than that. Then, after my fee and face went numb, it wasn't so bad. Until there were jellyfish. Non-stinging moon jellys, but still, just after I got past the open water panic, I got hit with jellyfish panic. I was coherent enough to think "I touched it, and I'm not screaming, and I can stand in this water, so it's probably okay and safe." Still, that was it for me. My wetsuit works, I remembered that I can swim, and my face was numb, so that meant it was time to call it a day. Does all that beer drinking count as carb loading for Rev3? I do believe it does. Enjoy the taper. |
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2014-05-28 9:12 AM in reply to: Burd |
Extreme Veteran 968 Cape Coral, FL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open GI issues. Over the past few weeks I have been having a crazy thing happen. No matter what I eat you can hear a rumble in my stomach like the food is digesting or something. It happens for 1hr to 2hrs after the meal/snack. It's so loud I had a friend ask me if I was OK and if I needed to use his bathroom. My training load is pretty heavy and someone suggested it's just my high metabolism but I find that hard to swallow. It worries me that I'll come home with only one sock and a mad homeowner when they go to mow their lawn. I'm honestly stumped and a bit concerned. Has this ever happened to you or have you heard of this before? Do I eat less at a time and just eat constantly? The meals aren't real big either just normal. |
2014-05-28 9:18 AM in reply to: Burd |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Burd GI issues. Over the past few weeks I have been having a crazy thing happen. No matter what I eat you can hear a rumble in my stomach like the food is digesting or something. It happens for 1hr to 2hrs after the meal/snack. It's so loud I had a friend ask me if I was OK and if I needed to use his bathroom. My training load is pretty heavy and someone suggested it's just my high metabolism but I find that hard to swallow. It worries me that I'll come home with only one sock and a mad homeowner when they go to mow their lawn. I'm honestly stumped and a bit concerned. Has this ever happened to you or have you heard of this before? Do I eat less at a time and just eat constantly? The meals aren't real big either just normal. Maybe track what you eat? Maybe it is a certain food? Does it happen all the time? Get to the doctor asap and get it figured out! |
2014-05-28 9:20 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by badmo77a Originally posted by Qua17 Speaking of support - I've got an interview today for a job teaching Middle School Humanities. For those of you who believe in the power of prayer - please pray that I have a good interview. For those of you who don't - do me a favor and keep your fingers crossed. Have a great day everyone! ??????? How did the interview go David?? |
2014-05-28 9:21 AM in reply to: Burd |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Burd Originally posted by mirthfuldragon Hey folks: On vacation in Boston, enjoying the taper before Rev3 Quassy. Went to Sam Adams today for a visit - nice operation, but like the beer itself, just fine. Went to a local pub they recommended and got a free pint glass (in a round about fashion) and enjoyed a Grumpy Monk - a Belgian IPA (which makes sense, if odd). Also picked up two bottles of their small-batch barrel room collection - Tetravis, a barrel-aged quad and their New World, a tripel. Both tip the scales at over 10% ABV, so those should be some good evenings. Going to hit Harpoon tomorrow, get a massage, then hit a few other breweries with DQ. Swam yesterday, in the ocean for the first time. A few thoughts: **** it's cold. Colder than that. Then, after my fee and face went numb, it wasn't so bad. Until there were jellyfish. Non-stinging moon jellys, but still, just after I got past the open water panic, I got hit with jellyfish panic. I was coherent enough to think "I touched it, and I'm not screaming, and I can stand in this water, so it's probably okay and safe." Still, that was it for me. My wetsuit works, I remembered that I can swim, and my face was numb, so that meant it was time to call it a day. Does all that beer drinking count as carb loading for Rev3? I do believe it does. Enjoy the taper. Should be a good day of carb loading today...just keep the weight loss/nascar race in the back of your mind as your eating and drinking... |
2014-05-28 9:25 AM in reply to: MOlsen |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Nice job! Amazing how a bit of competition will give you a push!! I am envious of your weather/location! right now it is raining and around 44F. Been a cold, wet, windy spring! Originally posted by MOlsen Checking in after a long weekend: Saturday: 22 mile bike ride out to the beach and back. It was overcast so I didn't take a picture like I did last time On my return trip I was passed going up a hill by what looked to be a more seasoned cyclist. My hill strength needs work so I didn't think much of it but it did give me a "rabbit" to chase. Over a couple miles I gradually gained ground on him. As we made our way out of the canyon and into some flats we hit a slight headwind, my aero position gave me an advantage and I was able to pass him and maintain my "lead" back into town. Sunday: Fun 6 mile run out to the same beach with a couple of running friends. We ran out to the end of the pier and back, dodging tourists who were enjoying the beautiful weather. Monday: Short 2 mile hike / trail run to explore some hiking trails near my house and try trail running for the first time. Wow what a difference terrain makes, I'm looking forward to more! Beer: One of my favorite local breweries (Firestone) hit a home run with their "Session IPA". Lighter on the alcohol than most IPA's with tons of flavor and fresh hops. This will be my favorite for the summer, I'm sure. |
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2014-05-28 11:59 AM in reply to: mirthfuldragon |
New user 180 Auburn, AL | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by mirthfuldragon Hey folks: On vacation in Boston, enjoying the taper before Rev3 Quassy. Went to Sam Adams today for a visit - nice operation, but like the beer itself, just fine. Went to a local pub they recommended and got a free pint glass (in a round about fashion) and enjoyed a Grumpy Monk - a Belgian IPA (which makes sense, if odd). Also picked up two bottles of their small-batch barrel room collection - Tetravis, a barrel-aged quad and their New World, a tripel. Both tip the scales at over 10% ABV, so those should be some good evenings. Going to hit Harpoon tomorrow, get a massage, then hit a few other breweries with DQ. Swam yesterday, in the ocean for the first time. A few thoughts: **** it's cold. Colder than that. Then, after my fee and face went numb, it wasn't so bad. Until there were jellyfish. Non-stinging moon jellys, but still, just after I got past the open water panic, I got hit with jellyfish panic. I was coherent enough to think "I touched it, and I'm not screaming, and I can stand in this water, so it's probably okay and safe." Still, that was it for me. My wetsuit works, I remembered that I can swim, and my face was numb, so that meant it was time to call it a day.
Now that's what I call a taper! |
2014-05-28 1:49 PM in reply to: podemma |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open I'm NOT dead! I've actually been working out a fair amount; Ragnar Relay coming up in June. I've gotten a new job, new hours, lots more work so I can't play on BT like I used to. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm going to try and be more of a participant.
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2014-05-28 1:53 PM in reply to: Burd |
New user 58 Calgary, Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by Burd GI issues. Over the past few weeks I have been having a crazy thing happen. No matter what I eat you can hear a rumble in my stomach like the food is digesting or something. It happens for 1hr to 2hrs after the meal/snack. It's so loud I had a friend ask me if I was OK and if I needed to use his bathroom. My training load is pretty heavy and someone suggested it's just my high metabolism but I find that hard to swallow. It worries me that I'll come home with only one sock and a mad homeowner when they go to mow their lawn. I'm honestly stumped and a bit concerned. Has this ever happened to you or have you heard of this before? Do I eat less at a time and just eat constantly? The meals aren't real big either just normal. I have had some GI issues in the past too. Similar to what you experience but perhaps not as extreme. For me I find a probiotic heps greatly. I use one called FloraSmart I think it is a Canidian company but I am sure you can find something similar or perhaps your Dr could recomened something. |
2014-05-28 2:30 PM in reply to: jeffnboise |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: Beer Drinker Accountability/Appreciation Society - Open Originally posted by jeffnboise I'm NOT dead! I've actually been working out a fair amount; Ragnar Relay coming up in June. I've gotten a new job, new hours, lots more work so I can't play on BT like I used to. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm going to try and be more of a participant.
Good to have you back...even if you are PBR drinker... Make sure and post your intro so all the new people can get to know you! So another job in law enforcement??
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