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2013-02-01 1:15 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-02-01 12:54 PM

1:15 on the computrainer this morning with 2 x 20 main set.  Watching walking dead season 2, man do I love that show.....

Reporting in on working with a coach.  I had a coach in 2009 and it didn't work well.  My training was more social then, and the prescribed workouts kept me from hanging with the crowd.  This time it's different, my crowd is different, coach and I have a better understanding.   But the cadence of the weeks really work for me this time around.   really looking forward to seeing how that translates to race results.

ETA - forgot to add this morning I won a free entry to Wildflower Long Course on a local podcast with pro Jim Lubinski!  I hardly ever win anything, so this was nice!

Gotta love the free entry!

I have had the same experience although not really with a coach..but with finding a plan that works for me (Endurance Nation in my case).  I really like how the setup works with my available time to train, frequency and intensity all seem to work well for me.  I think trusting the coach or plan is very important.



2013-02-01 1:15 PM
in reply to: #4604504

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-02-01 10:54 AM

1:15 on the computrainer this morning with 2 x 20 main set.  Watching walking dead season 2, man do I love that show.....

Reporting in on working with a coach.  I had a coach in 2009 and it didn't work well.  My training was more social then, and the prescribed workouts kept me from hanging with the crowd.  This time it's different, my crowd is different, coach and I have a better understanding.   But the cadence of the weeks really work for me this time around.   really looking forward to seeing how that translates to race results.

ETA - forgot to add this morning I won a free entry to Wildflower Long Course on a local podcast with pro Jim Lubinski!  I hardly ever win anything, so this was nice!

Nice that the coach is working out this time.  Have fun and Wildflower.

2013-02-01 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
ChrisM - 2013-01-31 12:54 PM

1:15 on the computrainer this morning with 2 x 20 main set.  Watching walking dead season 2, man do I love that show.....

I actually had to stop watching that show on the trainer because my little pea brain couldn't separate watching from reality and I would literally jump during surprise scenes. Try explaining that to someone.

2013-02-01 1:18 PM
in reply to: #4604622

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
GoFaster - 2013-02-01 2:00 PM

So those T pace runs - would you consider those "hard" efforts?  And for the I pace runs, how many repeats, etc. are you doing, and what type of distance for each?

 

Yes!  If you get in around 20-30 minutes of actual work you've done a good workout.  More than that and you've really done a hard workout.  If you run continuously at T pace (aka a tempo run) aim for 20-25 minutes.  When you do cruise intervals, you can afford to put in a bit more work because of the (brief) rest between intervals.  I sometimes cheat up to around 30 minutes (of work).



Edited by Experior 2013-02-01 1:19 PM
2013-02-01 1:23 PM
in reply to: #4604622

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
GoFaster - 2013-02-01 2:00 PM
rymac - 2013-02-01 11:51 AM
GoFaster - 2013-02-01 11:32 AM
rymac - 2013-02-01 9:12 AM
Experior - 2013-01-31 8:50 PM

I'm used to doing relatively high volume training, which ain't happening right now.  (Work is killing me.  I've done 16 hour days the past several days, squeezing a modicum of training in where I can, and trying to remember that I'm a father.)

Raise your hand if you've been in this position.

My solution, at present, is to do a lot more intensity.  Like in yesterday's run I did 4x1 mile pretty hard, which is not a workout I'd normally do at my current volume.  I also did some fairly hard intervals on the bike.  (So yeah, today I ran REAL easy, lol!)  I know that this is a high-risk strategy, and it's one that I've argued against in the past.

Thoughts?

Back to work...

(I am following along with the fast-paced discussion here; just very very little time to post...)

I only have about 8 hours each week to train and have had to dial up intensity to produce gains.  It is pretty easy to do in swimming and biking and was hesitant at first about doing it on the run but have had very good results and no injuries so I would call that a success.

From a run perspective, basically doing 2-4x (1-2 mile repeats) at T-pace or doing some 'I' pace work for 2 of my 4-5 running days each week has been beneficial.  The other 'easier' days doing strides at the end of each run. 

I have gone up about 1.5-2 VDOT points in 14 weeks taking that approach so there are gains to be made with limited time.

Ryan - what do you consider your T pace?  Is this your 5k pace, or something different?

Referencing Daniels:

T-Pace: 1 hour race pace

I-Pace: ~5K pace

Punch a recent race result into a VDOT calculator (I use RunBayou) and it will spit those out for you.

So those T pace runs - would you consider those "hard" efforts?  And for the I pace runs, how many repeats, etc. are you doing, and what type of distance for each?

T-Pace would be in the 'comfortably hard' category.  At the end of an interval, you should feel like you could keep going for some time but it should take some concentration to stay at that effort level. 

We had a little discussion a few days ago on 'I' pace in this thread although that may be 10 pages ago .  Basically they are shorter repeats done at VO2 max.  They are typically 3-5 minutes in duration and rest time is usually equal to the work time.

Ben posted a great excerpt from Daniels on 'I' pace a few pages back.  I also found a great you tube channel called "run smart project" that has a bunch of talks from Daniels himself on all this stuff.  I listened to that for quite awhile yesterday.

2013-02-01 2:57 PM
in reply to: #4604507

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Wow Chris, that's awesome!  IIRC, wasn't Wildflower a question mark on your schedule?  Does that settle the question?  

Yeah, it was a "probable" but hadn't signed up yet.  Glad I didn't



2013-02-01 5:52 PM
in reply to: #4543084

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Well, it may just be to the Oly distance, which I can't do since it's on a different day....  bummer
2013-02-01 7:37 PM
in reply to: #4604677

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
rymac - 2013-02-01 2:23 PM

T-Pace would be in the 'comfortably hard' category.  At the end of an interval, you should feel like you could keep going for some time but it should take some concentration to stay at that effort level. 

We had a little discussion a few days ago on 'I' pace in this thread although that may be 10 pages ago .  Basically they are shorter repeats done at VO2 max.  They are typically 3-5 minutes in duration and rest time is usually equal to the work time.

Ben posted a great excerpt from Daniels on 'I' pace a few pages back.  I also found a great you tube channel called "run smart project" that has a bunch of talks from Daniels himself on all this stuff.  I listened to that for quite awhile yesterday.

x2.

In addition to those videos, there is a nice series of articles here

  http://www.coacheseducation.com/endur/jack-daniels-june-00.htm

The link to part 5 is absent.  It is here:

  http://www.coacheseducation.com/endur/jack-daniels-dec-00.htm

As far as I'm aware, part 6 was never really written, except as a post to a forum:

  http://www.coacheseducation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50

(Yeah, I could be accused of stalking Daniels...)

The book is really the go-to place for his views, though.  He did develop some slightly different ideas later, but the book is basically everything.

2013-02-01 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Have a great weekend.....my schedule bears a strong resemblance to Michael's, so interaction here has been limited. Trying to keep up with you all the best I can.

On a different note, some of you know I have 4 daughters under 15 years of age who compete in triathlon as well. Tomorrow we start a new discipline: Israeli Krav Maga...and they are all excited about it, which is cool.

2013-02-01 10:32 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

62F just a couple days ago. -2F to start off today. And now we're getting a few inches of snow this evening.

Anyway, think I have something on my swim issue from the past week or so. Likely going too deep on the catch. Lats were getting overworked in spite of it not taking that much breathing, and I was going slower. Would have been nice to figure it out a bit sooner than ~5,000 yds into a 5,100 yd workout, but oh well. Last bit of free in the c/d was easier and quicker.

2013-02-02 8:05 AM
in reply to: #4543084

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Stage 8 done.  Dang those 1 min intervals were tough.  One more stage to go.  Off to chilly Flagstaff today


2013-02-02 10:20 AM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

" I have 4 daughters under 15 years of age who compete in triathlon as well."--------Good Genes?

I just turned down a job that would have been 55 hours a week on a permanent basis. I really needed the money....but know how hard it would have been to train.... and have zero "down time."

Good Luck to you, man.

Enjoying the running discussion...fixing to go knock one out right now. cycling in the morning.

For February I may try to switch my swimming to midday from 530 am...there just isn't much time for stretching beforehand cuz its too cold. trying to keep my back loose is a job in itself.

 

2013-02-02 11:52 AM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

bzgl40 - 2013-02-02 6:05 AM Stage 8 done.  Dang those 1 min intervals were tough.  One more stage to go.  Off to chilly Flagstaff today

Tell me about it!  There Is No Try @ 97% felt surprisingly good....good enough that I almost considered riding Revolver @ 100%.  Part way through the warm-up interval of Revolver, my legs were feeling heavy and dead and I was glad that I was smart enough to keep it at 97%.  I wanted to quit a number of times, but I just told my legs to shut up and HTFU....and thankfully they listened.

8 of 9 stages done....11 of 12 rides done -- one day/ride to go!!  Then my legs are looking forward to a short break!

2013-02-02 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Exhausted after 6 hours of butchering an enormous pig.  Can I log that as training?
2013-02-02 2:43 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
dustytrails - 2013-02-02 11:20 AM

" I have 4 daughters under 15 years of age who compete in triathlon as well."--------Good Genes?

Must be generation skipping genes :)  because ...front door brag alert... 2 of them have already qualified for the IronKids Championship and the other 2 are very close. And to top it off, they're great kids.

2013-02-02 2:44 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Experior - 2013-02-02 3:16 PM Exhausted after 6 hours of butchering an enormous pig.  Can I log that as training?

Yes, but only after you eat it ;)



2013-02-02 5:18 PM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Experior - 2013-02-02 1:16 PM Exhausted after 6 hours of butchering an enormous pig.  Can I log that as training?

It takes 6 hours to butcher a pig?!?!!?  You might need to create a custom workout for that

2013-02-02 5:28 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Trail race in the books.  The entire field (in the 8 miler) missed the first turn.  It was awesome.  The wrong way was straight up hill.  How does that even happen?  You had to walk this big arse hill because the trail was narrow and everyone else was walking it.  We all got to the top and sort of figured out something was amiss. 

I literally ran down the hill about 200m and ran back up 3 times.  The group think was awesome - I had one women YELL at me that we needed to keep going the way we were because SHE HAD DONE THIS RACE FOUR YEARS IN A ROW.  She was WRONG.  Finally, we just ran down and it became clear we missed a turn.  My fast buddy (who I had a side bet with) made a quick and correct decision to head downhill to the turn -- he got 3rd OA.  I should have just followed his lead, but I didn't want to run way down and then back up. 

Anyway, run was slow, I walked a lot of hills, I didn't fall (I saw three people face plant), weather was tolerable (19F start), clothing was correct, I was slow, I run downhill way slower than most people and the race was a total blast.  I'm pretty sure if I ever run something longer than a HM it will be on the trail.  No results in yet, but at least I finished with other people who sort of looked like runners, so I'll take it.  Oh, almost forgot, piping hot coffee and homemade oatmeal/raisin and macadamia nut/white chocolate cookies at the finish.  Total win.

 

2013-02-02 6:05 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Heard u can use a chainsaw to get it done easier Michael stalker.

as far as bragging on kids....go for it....they work as hard as we do....

just scored a four bike hitch carrier on craigslist.--------- that looks like its worth more than my s10 blazer. no more throwing my back out tryin load/unload from inside suv. whoopee!!

 

2013-02-02 6:50 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Experior - 2013-02-02 2:16 PM Exhausted after 6 hours of butchering an enormous pig.  Can I log that as training?

mmmmmmmm.... Bacon.......

2013-02-02 6:52 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Goosedog - 2013-02-02 5:28 PM

Trail race in the books.  The entire field (in the 8 miler) missed the first turn.  It was awesome.  The wrong way was straight up hill.  How does that even happen?  You had to walk this big arse hill because the trail was narrow and everyone else was walking it.  We all got to the top and sort of figured out something was amiss. 

I literally ran down the hill about 200m and ran back up 3 times.  The group think was awesome - I had one women YELL at me that we needed to keep going the way we were because SHE HAD DONE THIS RACE FOUR YEARS IN A ROW.  She was WRONG.  Finally, we just ran down and it became clear we missed a turn.  My fast buddy (who I had a side bet with) made a quick and correct decision to head downhill to the turn -- he got 3rd OA.  I should have just followed his lead, but I didn't want to run way down and then back up. 

Anyway, run was slow, I walked a lot of hills, I didn't fall (I saw three people face plant), weather was tolerable (19F start), clothing was correct, I was slow, I run downhill way slower than most people and the race was a total blast.  I'm pretty sure if I ever run something longer than a HM it will be on the trail.  No results in yet, but at least I finished with other people who sort of looked like runners, so I'll take it.  Oh, almost forgot, piping hot coffee and homemade oatmeal/raisin and macadamia nut/white chocolate cookies at the finish.  Total win.

 

Nice work Dog!  After a race like that, coffee and a cookie definitely would hit the spot for me.  Everyone missed the turn?  Classic!



2013-02-02 7:00 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN

Just rode 51 miles in central CA this morning, it was 50ish when we started.  Back home it was 8 deg F yesterday.  2,000 feet of climbing but it felt great.  Hammering hard in spin class has proven to be of value.  It wasn't a hammering pace, but there we at least two CAT 4 climbs and the ride as a whole didn't feel bad.  Actually the hardest part for me were the descents.  A little scary with the windy roads and some traffic.  A friend loaned me his bike so I was not confortable at such a high speed going down so I was applying brakes most of the way.  I haven't seen terrain like that in Kansas!

2013-02-02 7:22 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
reecealan - 2013-02-02 7:50 PM

Experior - 2013-02-02 2:16 PM Exhausted after 6 hours of butchering an enormous pig.  Can I log that as training?

mmmmmmmm.... Bacon.......

I just started the bacon tonight. 

bzgl40 - 2013-02-02 6:18 PM

It takes 6 hours to butcher a pig?!?!!?  You might need to create a custom workout for that

The pig was 650 pounds.  So yeah, 6 hours from grunting to freezer was actually pretty fast.  We've never done one that big.  I really was pretty tired at the end of it.

 

2013-02-02 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
reecealan - 2013-02-02 8:00 PM

Just rode 51 miles in central CA this morning, it was 50ish when we started.  Back home it was 8 deg F yesterday.  2,000 feet of climbing but it felt great.  Hammering hard in spin class has proven to be of value.  It wasn't a hammering pace, but there we at least two CAT 4 climbs and the ride as a whole didn't feel bad.  Actually the hardest part for me were the descents.  A little scary with the windy roads and some traffic.  A friend loaned me his bike so I was not confortable at such a high speed going down so I was applying brakes most of the way.  I haven't seen terrain like that in Kansas!

That sounds really awesome :=

2013-02-02 7:29 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia - OPEN
Goosedog - 2013-02-02 6:28 PM

Trail race in the books.   

Way to go!!! Glad to hear you stayed on your feet the whole time. I did actually say a prayer for you. 

You definitely earned a cookie (or four) Yummy. :=)

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