Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 76)

I agree for every distance except Olympic, which the article didn't test.

I understand what you are saying - that the swim in an oly comprises a greater portion of the overall race than in any other distance... so oly-specific training should be more swim focused.  I agree to an extent, in that it is smart to train with your race in mind.  In fact, for people who are just starting out with tri training (they say they stink equally in all 3 sports), I often recommend splitting their SBR training up into proportions that are the same as the race they are doing (by time).  For a sprint that might mean 20 minute swim, 60 minute bike, 30 minute run (110 minutes total)... so in training spend ~18% of time swimming, 55% of time biking, and 27% of time running.

That said, even in an oly the swim is still the shortest leg of a tri by far.  Couple that with the fact that it generally takes a lot of work to get a little bit faster in the pool, and the same amount of work would get you MUCH faster on the run and bike, and I still side with the ROI folks who de-emphasize swimming.*

I'm sure you're familiar with the argument, but I'll just give an example here for those reading the thread.  Take 20 seconds (a huge increase it swim fitness requiring tons of pool time) off your 100y time in the pool, and that translates to 5.75 minutes in an oly.  I contend that if you had maintained the swim fitness at 5 minutes slower, but spent that huge amount of time biking and running, you will finish far more than 5.75 minutes faster overall.

On the flip side, you'll find folks who believe in the importance of swimming a ton so that you don't come out of the water wasted and digging yourself out of a hole.  Since I believe that's more about pacing that fitness, I won't advocate for that camp... but will note that many folks I respect hold to this view.

* unless you truly stink and swimming and there is worry about safety or not making the cutoff.

I think people kind of fall into 3 groups as far as swimming goes:

1. new swimmers
2. people who have done a fair amount of swimming as adults
3. swimmers who grew up swimming / joined competitve programs as kids

I'd argue that #1 and #2 can make big gains with relatively modest time spent IF they get coached and learn proper technique.  And you see where I was going with Olympic distance.  The swim time might be 1/2 of your bike time.  Compare that to an Ironman where it's 1/6.

This made me think about another aspect.  When you OWS with a lot of people, it is very easy to spike your HR in the washing machine.  And even later on when the pack stretches out, if you try to stay on someone's feet and they are above your level, it's easy to get winded.

So I would never dispute anyone's decision to put time in on swim training.  For me, my running is weak and that's what I'm working on the most right now.

Maybe I'll be the first to agree with you - even if only for the mental aspect of the game.  If swimming more makes you feel stronger and like you are racing better then it is the right thing to do for you.  Only you know your body, your strengths and weaknesses and what you need to keep a positive head.  If you come out of the swim feeling on top of the world then I believe that will help you (as long as you've done your time on the bike as well).

For me it's nailing the bike.  I'm a runner (not fast mind you, but consistent), so when I get to run I know what my body can do - even when broken or in pain - so I just want to get there.

Whatever your training plan - go after it with 100% and have fun!

More numbers... Keeping my running volume down due to injury/back issues.  Was really impressed by some of the bike times people posted!  Great job BT'ers!

S:  24600.00 Meters B:  30h 57m R:  69.50 Mi  Str:  5h 05m

April will be about hitting more hills and volume on the bike and getting used to my darn wetsuit before it is too hot to put on anymore (Arizona).  Happy that I'm staying on track and not dropping weight like last time since my energy level paid for it.  Marque HIM this weekend  - pretty flat course but for me it will be about getting some OWS and defensive swimming practice in.

I totally agree with you.  For all my ROI-anti-swim talk, I think 2x wk is probably a minimum one should be swimming.  I come from that camp who had some swim background as a small child (my Dad swam for Purdue and taught us well from VERY young)... so coming back to it as an adult I can swim 2-3 times a week to finish the IM swim in about 70 minutes.

I suspect that for me to get to 60 minutes would probably require tripling my pool time... add commuting to the pool and it would require me to borrow from run/bike time to get it all in with my time limited schedule.

But for someone closer to 2 hours than 1, I think there is some merit to some swim focus.  At that point there are some form/technique issues that can get some rapid time increases (much faster than you could get a fitness increase) with good instruction.

I'm just curious what times everyone is shooting for.  I started a poll thread here:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=247256&posts=1#M3430426

Bop on over and choose your expected finish time...

OK I'm confused... according to this...

http://c28908.r8.cf1.rackcdn.com/2010/09/CDA_2011-Schedule.pdf

2nd lap of bike must be completed by 4PM

Bike course closes 5:30PM

Most IM races give you 10h:30m from the start to complete the bike (which would be 5:30PM).  So what's with the 4PM cutoff?

My bet is that it is a poorly done cut and paste job from another IM schedule.  Maybe Arizona or another course with 3 loops.  My guess is that the 4PM cutoff will disappear before race day.

I sent an email to WTC letting them know about this error.  I needed to update my name for the bibs anyway. It looks like WTC has a new "trouble ticket" system.  I got a confirmation email back immediately saying my issue had been logged.  Service with a smile for every 140.6 miles...and $575

15step - 2011-04-05 7:09 AM Jesus, I had my first IM panic dream last night. Is 3 months out too early??? Basically I was late to the swim, and just barely made the cutoff. I got out last thinking what is the point in continuing. Then said HTFU and got on the bike. Only by now, all the cones and signs were gone, and the racers were already well into the bike. I got lost on the bike riding aimlessly around the city, and then woke up....never made it to the run

right on schedule

that's a pretty nasty dream.  i've had similar.  the worst are right a the beginning of taper for me. my stress level went up a bit this last weekend from following IMCA 70.3.  it helps me to remind myself of my goals and stop measuring myself against anyone elses performance or expectations.  if you are a list maker/planner, its not too soon to start working on packing lists, race week schedules, and a race plan.  i like to use the race plan and do visualization to see myself in control and having fun on race day.

i think i'll do this for my 70.3 coming up on 4/16 (Rage Long Course...anyone else going to be there?).

kiki_zen - 2011-04-05 9:47 AM

15step - 2011-04-05 7:09 AM Jesus, I had my first IM panic dream last night. Is 3 months out too early??? Basically I was late to the swim, and just barely made the cutoff. I got out last thinking what is the point in continuing. Then said HTFU and got on the bike. Only by now, all the cones and signs were gone, and the racers were already well into the bike. I got lost on the bike riding aimlessly around the city, and then woke up....never made it to the run

right on schedule

that's a pretty nasty dream.  i've had similar.  the worst are right a the beginning of taper for me. my stress level went up a bit this last weekend from following IMCA 70.3.  it helps me to remind myself of my goals and stop measuring myself against anyone elses performance or expectations.  if you are a list maker/planner, its not too soon to start working on packing lists, race week schedules, and a race plan.  i like to use the race plan and do visualization to see myself in control and having fun on race day.

i think i'll do this for my 70.3 coming up on 4/16 (Rage Long Course...anyone else going to be there?).

Your stress went up from following IMCA 70.3 from following it, and mine went up by doing it! Haha! Okay, not really stress go up on it...but the race went "okay" and probably on par with where I felt like I might be (minus the swim---but I've been told the later waves had some decent tides to deal with, eh, whatever) on things with some lesson's learned and all for CdA.  I'm definitely not ready to predict any kind of time for CdA yet.  Too much still seems unknown to me this time around. 

I was having those nightmares in January haha.  That  is rotten but none lately.

As to race times, for me, its never a good idea to put down a time goal. My pat goal is always to give the best effort I can on the day given the conditions. So much can go right/wrong during an IM that it seems wise to hedge your bets and be ok with not hitting your ill-conceived time goals. Take a bit of pressure off yourself if you can.

TexasMPGal - 2011-04-05 11:35 AM

kiki_zen - 2011-04-05 9:47 AM

15step - 2011-04-05 7:09 AM Jesus, I had my first IM panic dream last night. Is 3 months out too early??? Basically I was late to the swim, and just barely made the cutoff. I got out last thinking what is the point in continuing. Then said HTFU and got on the bike. Only by now, all the cones and signs were gone, and the racers were already well into the bike. I got lost on the bike riding aimlessly around the city, and then woke up....never made it to the run

right on schedule

that's a pretty nasty dream.  i've had similar.  the worst are right a the beginning of taper for me. my stress level went up a bit this last weekend from following IMCA 70.3.  it helps me to remind myself of my goals and stop measuring myself against anyone elses performance or expectations.  if you are a list maker/planner, its not too soon to start working on packing lists, race week schedules, and a race plan.  i like to use the race plan and do visualization to see myself in control and having fun on race day.

i think i'll do this for my 70.3 coming up on 4/16 (Rage Long Course...anyone else going to be there?).

Your stress went up from following IMCA 70.3 from following it, and mine went up by doing it! Haha! Okay, not really stress go up on it...but the race went "okay" and probably on par with where I felt like I might be (minus the swim---but I've been told the later waves had some decent tides to deal with, eh, whatever) on things with some lesson's learned and all for CdA.  I'm definitely not ready to predict any kind of time for CdA yet.  Too much still seems unknown to me this time around. 

Good job on your IMCA 70.3 finish Brittany! 

I think we all need some self affirmation lessons.  Here is my favorite one from youtube: Jessica's Daily Affirmation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR3rK0kZFkg 

(first link was wrong)

i think i'll do this for my 70.3 coming up on 4/16 (Rage Long Course...anyone else going to be there?).

A new move by WTC in IM races the last ~12 months is to have intermidate cut offs on bike (plus on the swim and run too) that can hurt slower folks if they have mechanical issues early on the bike.

I think at IMFL they had two bike cut offs before the bike into T2 time. Run they had a loop 1 cut off time and then another one at the turn around on second loop.

Wha???  The bike cutoff thing is weird.  And scary!  As the event schedule stands now, if you're pusing the cutoff on lap 1, you then need to average 22.4 mph in order to make the final cutoff.  Hah!  No problem!  As previously mentioned, they also have 5pm listed as the time that the bike course closes, so the 4pm thing doesn't make sense.  Here's hoping they change it!  Even without mechanical issues, I won't be finishing that course by 4pm...

WTC is so awesome and informative!