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2009-05-27 8:39 PM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
bschulte - 2009-05-27 8:28 AM
mburkhart - 2009-05-25 10:22 PM My problem is I haven't been able to get back to the pace I was at last season for my HIM (running). I was in the low 9's with intervals around 8:40 and this season after taking about 2 months off entirely I can't seem to break 10:00mm w/o my HR sky rocketing. does it really take this long to get beck in shape after a lapse of that long? I seem to be able to push during races but my HR is always way too high. My first 1/2 Mary is this weekend which should be a good test. Very frustrating!


Sounds frustrating for sure.  Just keep at it and your fitness will come back.  One thing to keep in mind is that your resting HR is probably not as low as it used to be so in fact all of your zones have moved up.  Not sure, but it can make a difference.  You may think you are in a higher zone than you actually are.
Thanks - good point, I haven't tested my rsting HR since I started back, I'll check on that tomorrow morning!


2009-05-29 11:51 AM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Training without a race insight is boring. Dont have anything going until August. Have I told you it is hot down here in Florida. Humidity 100% headed out for a two hour bike ride. Looking forward for the races again. Good luck you guys with HIM in Macon. Tear it up by reading some of your logs it looks like it will be a walk in the park (Brent and Jon). Have fun if you can and have a good race.
2009-05-29 4:29 PM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
That's why I try to race every month! 
2009-05-29 6:09 PM
in reply to: #2181162

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
fireman70 - 2009-05-29 12:51 PM Training without a race insight is boring. Dont have anything going until August. Have I told you it is hot down here in Florida. Humidity 100% headed out for a two hour bike ride. Looking forward for the races again. Good luck you guys with HIM in Macon. Tear it up by reading some of your logs it looks like it will be a walk in the park (Brent and Jon). Have fun if you can and have a good race.


Thanks, we'll see if I have left anything in these legs or if I've trained everything out.
2009-05-29 6:58 PM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed

Awesome idea Macmadame I may be able to squeeze a sprint in this month before vacation. Brent it is more like how hard are you going to push yourself in the race.

2009-05-31 12:09 PM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
I finally got a chance to test my new wetsuit and do an open water swim.  I did about 1200 yards at the local resevoir and I must admit the suit made a big difference.  The added buoyancy took a fair amount of pressure off of my lower back that starts to tighten up after a while of keeping my posture straight.  I didn't feel that at all today and did a decent job of sighting buoys.  Once I finished the swim, I had my wife take everything back to the house and I ran home for a nice brick workout.  One week from today I will be doing this for real.....can't wait.


2009-06-01 9:11 AM
in reply to: #2184310

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
baldbuyer - 2009-05-31 1:09 PM I finally got a chance to test my new wetsuit and do an open water swim.  I did about 1200 yards at the local resevoir and I must admit the suit made a big difference.  The added buoyancy took a fair amount of pressure off of my lower back that starts to tighten up after a while of keeping my posture straight.  I didn't feel that at all today and did a decent job of sighting buoys.  Once I finished the swim, I had my wife take everything back to the house and I ran home for a nice brick workout.  One week from today I will be doing this for real.....can't wait.


Good to see everything worked out well.  One less thing to worry about on race day and now you will have some additional confidence in your swim for the race.
2009-06-01 10:06 AM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Brent,
Finally, I have a question. 

At Macon this weekend, I was very happy with my swim and bike.  On the bike, I used the same nutrition program that I did in Kona.  As you know, on the run I was reduced to walking with a bad case of nausuea.  My old nutrition program looked like this (the one I used on race day):
* At top of every hour take 1/3 of feed bottle (6 scoops Carbo-pro, 1 scoop Gu2O) followed by water
* At bottom of every hour take 1 gel followed by water
* Water at 15 and 45 minutes with goal to finish 1 bottle per hour of water

Looking at it again on paper, that gives me 347 calories per hour, 95 mg of sodium, 47 mg of potassium, 0 mg calcium, 0 mg magnesium, and 86 grams of carbs. 32 oz of water per hour.  I'm 150 to 155 lbs.


New nutrition plan will be the following:
1 bottle (1/3 of the bottle every 20 minutes) per hour filled with the following
- water
- 2 scoops endurolytes
- 2 scoops carbo pro

Gel if I need it for hunger pains. This will give me a minimum of 280 calories, 200 mg sodium, 70 mg of potassium, 100 mg calcium, 50 mg magnesium, and 70 g carbs per hour.

My question is: have you ever done any research on proper levels of potassium and magnesium?  I know sodium levels should vary by athletes and I have found that I cannot take in a ton of sodium without getting bloated.  Last year at one point I was taking in 600 mg per hour of Sodium and almost could not finish my rides due to sever bloat and sotmach cramping. 

I'm hoping the new nutrition plan works out better for Augusta.
2009-06-01 1:59 PM
in reply to: #2186248

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
jonathan22 - 2009-06-01 11:06 AM Brent,
Finally, I have a question. 

At Macon this weekend, I was very happy with my swim and bike.  On the bike, I used the same nutrition program that I did in Kona.  As you know, on the run I was reduced to walking with a bad case of nausuea.  My old nutrition program looked like this (the one I used on race day):
* At top of every hour take 1/3 of feed bottle (6 scoops Carbo-pro, 1 scoop Gu2O) followed by water
* At bottom of every hour take 1 gel followed by water
* Water at 15 and 45 minutes with goal to finish 1 bottle per hour of water

Looking at it again on paper, that gives me 347 calories per hour, 95 mg of sodium, 47 mg of potassium, 0 mg calcium, 0 mg magnesium, and 86 grams of carbs. 32 oz of water per hour.  I'm 150 to 155 lbs.


New nutrition plan will be the following:
1 bottle (1/3 of the bottle every 20 minutes) per hour filled with the following
- water
- 2 scoops endurolytes
- 2 scoops carbo pro

Gel if I need it for hunger pains. This will give me a minimum of 280 calories, 200 mg sodium, 70 mg of potassium, 100 mg calcium, 50 mg magnesium, and 70 g carbs per hour.

My question is: have you ever done any research on proper levels of potassium and magnesium?  I know sodium levels should vary by athletes and I have found that I cannot take in a ton of sodium without getting bloated.  Last year at one point I was taking in 600 mg per hour of Sodium and almost could not finish my rides due to sever bloat and sotmach cramping. 

I'm hoping the new nutrition plan works out better for Augusta.


I sent you an inspire before I actaully read this.  Specifically for potassium and magnesium I have not done any research other than to know it's needed.  I did do some experimenting with gels and different salt tabs to find the one's which work best for me.

Sorry couldn't be more help.
2009-06-01 6:26 PM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Sounds like you guys had some heat up there. I worked out Sat down here and I lost about 5 lbs in an hour of running. Then take in the fact the calorie burn. I finally think I have the nutrition thing somewhat worked out for me. I dont have it to a science like you guys but I eat every 20 on the bike and gel every 30 on the run and that seems to keep me from bonking. As for the water issue I know I need to keep more down but dont think it will matter with 90% humidity. Im sure you guys had the same. Jonathan good job it takes a lot to just not say "I quit". When obviously it would have been easier and a hell of a lot less painful. Puking at mile 9 with 4 to go is a long 4. As for Brent awesome race at this point not even having met you that is the caliber and what I would expect from you hope to hook up with you guys some day. Good job the both of you. Good to see Jonathan is already hard back at and already trying to fix it. Looks like you found it with an old post.
2009-06-03 1:32 AM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Doing my 3rd tri this weekend. It's a shortened Sprint so I'm treating it as a hard workout day. I was even going to ride my bike to it (it's 4 miles from my house) but my daughter is also doing the accompanying Fun Run so I think I'll spare her and drive her.

Tomorrow AM I have my last "free" personal training session. The first one they just did measurements. They claim my body fat is 17.8%! (I think it's a bit higher than that.) I was stoked though since my goal is get under 25% and be in the 18-22% range. The second one is just 20 min. but I had two killer workouts today so that's okay. 


2009-06-03 9:36 AM
in reply to: #2191061

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
MacMadame - 2009-06-03 2:32 AM Doing my 3rd tri this weekend. It's a shortened Sprint so I'm treating it as a hard workout day. I was even going to ride my bike to it (it's 4 miles from my house) but my daughter is also doing the accompanying Fun Run so I think I'll spare her and drive her.

Tomorrow AM I have my last "free" personal training session. The first one they just did measurements. They claim my body fat is 17.8%! (I think it's a bit higher than that.) I was stoked though since my goal is get under 25% and be in the 18-22% range. The second one is just 20 min. but I had two killer workouts today so that's okay. 


Congrats on your goal!, also, good luck at your race.
2009-06-04 7:45 AM
in reply to: #2078550

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed

I have a question regarding HIM race pace: I have done a little bit of research and found that it is quite possible with adequate bike fitness and pacing that one can probably expect to run at about their open Marathon pace during a HIM (I do most of pacing based on VDOT by Daniels which is a good book if any of you are looking for a good running book) which is what I have set as my HIM run pace (approx. 7:23 m/mile).  My question is regarding bike HIM pace and what target HR zone I should be working in mainly?  Is there any protocol for figuring this out or should I just do some trial and error pushing a little bit on the bike and seeing how I feel during my longer brick runs?  Have any of you that have done HIM's figured out what works best for you?  I would be interested to hear!

Ryan

2009-06-04 10:39 PM
in reply to: #2194196

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
rymac - 2009-06-04 8:45 AM

I have a question regarding HIM race pace: I have done a little bit of research and found that it is quite possible with adequate bike fitness and pacing that one can probably expect to run at about their open Marathon pace during a HIM (I do most of pacing based on VDOT by Daniels which is a good book if any of you are looking for a good running book) which is what I have set as my HIM run pace (approx. 7:23 m/mile).  My question is regarding bike HIM pace and what target HR zone I should be working in mainly?  Is there any protocol for figuring this out or should I just do some trial and error pushing a little bit on the bike and seeing how I feel during my longer brick runs?  Have any of you that have done HIM's figured out what works best for you?  I would be interested to hear!

Ryan



For me bike HIM pacing is zone 2.  Now, I got to that via good old trial and error.  I think your plan of experimenting with your long brick runs is the perfect way to try to figure it out.  A friend of mine just started doing tri's and started with HIM's (crazy I know).  After a disappointing first one where he blew up on the bike and couldn't run he worked on pacing more and just finished his second HIM last weekend, shaving off an hour off his time from the first.  The advice I gave him is to really think of it as two events vs. three.  It is swim, bike-run.  My point is that the bike and run play off of each other.  There is a great quote I used to have up on my training page that went something like this "so you thing you went too easy on the bike, well you now have 26.2 miles to correct that, think you went too hard on the bike, that now has 26.2 mile to rear it's ugly head".  

1/2 mph bike average, which is a huge differnece on the bike, can be erased by walking just 1/4 mile on the run.  My feelings are that you are better off leaving some on the bike and being able to run the entire 1/2 mary.  Just my 2 cents.

2009-06-07 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Did a nice 40 miler today sure is hot. Definitely summer time in FL down here. Stayed hydrated though only lost 2.5 lbs today. Slight head wind which made for a good tail wind on the way home.
2009-06-07 8:19 PM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
I did the Rev3 tri today and thanks to a left quad muscle cramping up from mile 33 on the bike on, it took me 7:45 to finish it. Several of the pros said that it was the toughest course that they had ever done because there was so much hill work.(5000 ft in altitude change on the bike course alone. I feel pretty good just finishing, considering this was my first tri event ever.


2009-06-07 8:41 PM
in reply to: #2200832

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
baldbuyer - 2009-06-07 9:19 PM I did the Rev3 tri today and thanks to a left quad muscle cramping up from mile 33 on the bike on, it took me 7:45 to finish it. Several of the pros said that it was the toughest course that they had ever done because there was so much hill work.(5000 ft in altitude change on the bike course alone. I feel pretty good just finishing, considering this was my first tri event ever.


Congrats on getting the first one in the books.  I promise you they are not all like that, so don't get discouraged!  Muscle cramping can make for a long day of misery.  Kudo's for sticking with it!
2009-06-08 12:22 AM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Finished the Mermaid Triathlon today. It was a short course and really flat so I just hauled on it as fast as I could. I finished in 1:18:28 and was only 10 min. behind the winner of my age group!

Also, they had a mini-Fun Run for the girls and I actually got my daughter to enter and now she wants to do tris too! Whee. 
2009-06-08 3:42 PM
in reply to: #2201135

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
MacMadame - 2009-06-08 1:22 AM Finished the Mermaid Triathlon today. It was a short course and really flat so I just hauled on it as fast as I could. I finished in 1:18:28 and was only 10 min. behind the winner of my age group!

Also, they had a mini-Fun Run for the girls and I actually got my daughter to enter and now she wants to do tris too! Whee. 


Congrats!  It's very rewarding when all the hard work starts to show.  Keep at it!
2009-06-09 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Update: I came in 12th out of 24 in my age group and 204 out of about 415 overall and my run pace was 10:43 -- which is AMAZING for me. I didn't think I was running that fast.

It turns out the 5th place overall finisher was in my age group so I was actually 20 min. behind the winner. But 10 min. behind the 2nd place finisher.

Now I have to get ready for the Donner Lake Tri. It's at altitude and an Olympic distance so I'm a bit worried. I haven't run 6.2 miles at  one time since my last Olympic tri. I need to work harder to get the long run in each week. 
2009-06-09 4:03 PM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Now that I am back from CT and have bagged the first tri, have had a good nap, an even better massage, and a day to do pretty much whatever I want, I can start thinking about the Boulder Peak (Olympic course).  I learned a great deal about this sport on the first trial by fire.  Some of the things that I need to work on are:  Hill work, more discipline on the electolyte intake, and making sure that whenever possible, try to scout the course first.  I never knew that there would be so much logistically to remember, both in pre-race prep as well as during the race nutrition strategy.  While the bike course was brutally hilly, part of my cramping was my own fault.  When I think back, I may have actually been doing too much water and not enough drinks with the electrolytes in them during the first part of the bike.  The problem is that once I reached about mile 24 of the bike, the next 7-9 were pretty much all up hill and I was so focused on working my gears and cadence, that I didn't pay enough attention to the nutrition. 

Overall, even with a miserable run and not coming close to my goal time, I found out a lot and never found myself wanting to quit.  I just hope that the Boulder Peak at least has some flat spots in it.


2009-06-09 6:56 PM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Hell first time tri as a HIM. I thought I was nuts. Good job on getting it done. That is my problem too so much to remember.

I definitely eat every 20 on the bike even if it is just a bite then I get in one g2 and another full water bottle on the ride and that covers me for about 40 miles. Havent bonked yet on a ride or any other trng days since I started consuming something if my workout is going to go over an hour on the run and 90 min on the bike. Snack before and after and a good stretch walk after working out seems to be the ticket for me.

But very impressive the Olympic dist will be a walk in the park for you now Baldbuyer. My HIM isnt until Nov to hot down here now for that wish I lived out west again. 92 degrees and 90% humidity makes for some long hot training sessions.
2009-06-09 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
Yeah,

Humidity like that can be a real problem.  CT was definitely more humid than CO, but didn't feel that bad.  I think that the only disappointing part of this last weekend was just the cramping, because I was really paying attention to my breathing and HR, and neither was really spiking, so I had plenty of lungs to get through it.  I just couldn't get the legs to cooperate.  I am going to give it until probably this weekend and then get moving again, with a little light swimming and maybe an easy jog.
2009-06-10 8:32 AM
in reply to: #2204976

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Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
MacMadame - 2009-06-09 11:42 AM Update: I came in 12th out of 24 in my age group and 204 out of about 415 overall and my run pace was 10:43 -- which is AMAZING for me. I didn't think I was running that fast.

It turns out the 5th place overall finisher was in my age group so I was actually 20 min. behind the winner. But 10 min. behind the 2nd place finisher.

Now I have to get ready for the Donner Lake Tri. It's at altitude and an Olympic distance so I'm a bit worried. I haven't run 6.2 miles at  one time since my last Olympic tri. I need to work harder to get the long run in each week. 

Amazing progress you have made.  You should be very proud!  Just slowely work up the running miles and you will be ready for your Oly in July.
2009-06-10 8:37 AM
in reply to: #2206023

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Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: bschulte mentor Group - Closed
baldbuyer - 2009-06-09 5:03 PM Now that I am back from CT and have bagged the first tri, have had a good nap, an even better massage, and a day to do pretty much whatever I want, I can start thinking about the Boulder Peak (Olympic course).  I learned a great deal about this sport on the first trial by fire.  Some of the things that I need to work on are:  Hill work, more discipline on the electolyte intake, and making sure that whenever possible, try to scout the course first.  I never knew that there would be so much logistically to remember, both in pre-race prep as well as during the race nutrition strategy.  While the bike course was brutally hilly, part of my cramping was my own fault.  When I think back, I may have actually been doing too much water and not enough drinks with the electrolytes in them during the first part of the bike.  The problem is that once I reached about mile 24 of the bike, the next 7-9 were pretty much all up hill and I was so focused on working my gears and cadence, that I didn't pay enough attention to the nutrition. 

Overall, even with a miserable run and not coming close to my goal time, I found out a lot and never found myself wanting to quit.  I just hope that the Boulder Peak at least has some flat spots in it.


Logistics, oh yeah, there's a bunch to remember and think about.  Every race has a curve ball, a glitch if you will.  Thinking though these effectively is the key to success.  I have learned the hard way too many times what ineffective problem solving does to you during a race.  The "I don't want to waste 20 seconds to stop and get a water bottle which I dropped at an aid station on the bike" are bonehead judgment calls which end up costing dearly.  Live and learn. 

At the HIM and longer level electrolyte replacement is a must or you will.......ummmm cramp up (sorry for the late notice)
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