Tri Mark's Madness Group-Closed (Page 8)

Mark- I wanted to get your thoughts on the training plan I'm putting together.  I don't have it in an easy format to attach just yet, but I'll try to do that as soon as I can.

For now, however: I was thinking of 2 days of swimming, 3 of biking, 2 of running, with every two weeks of build followed by a week of recovery.  You said last week that it's better at this point to focus on speed rather than endurance.  I was therefore thinking of making 1 of each of these workouts focused on sprints/intervals this week (and possibly next week), and then work up to 2 days of sprints/intervals as I get into better shape.

With this in mind, here's my plan for the week:

Monday (today)- 60 min bike (steady pace)

Tuesday (key workout day) - 1100m swim (4x25 all out sprint, 3x200 threshold), run 30 min (6x short pickups)

Wednesday- 45 min spin (interval class), run 25min (steady pace)

Thursday- 1350m swim (2x500m, steady pace), strength training

Friday-off

Saturday- long bike (hills)

Sunday- soccer

Think this is a good place to start?  I'm definitely open to making adjustments.  Thanks for the input!

 -Tel

Ok, ok You're all echoing the same axiom I'm familiar with. I do have a cough and that's why I skipped the ride on Sunday. The run felt fine today, but I'll dial it down and hopefully it will just be a regular cold that passes in 4 or 5 days.

I think you should dial yourself in for a race type cadence of about 95.  If you can do that comfortably, you'll be very pleased.  I roll about there, and people I ride with make comments all the time.  They cannot believe how fast it is.  You should do drill work to get it up in the 110-115 range, NO BOUNCING ON THE SEAT.  If you bounce, dial it back.  If you're not bouncing, dial it up.  I can do about 125 or so before the bouncing starts, but it takes a lot of trainer work for that.  You just do intervals.  2 or 3 minutes at 95, then increase by 3-5 every 3 minutes.  That's one drill.  Another is to work 95 for 3 minutes, then like 105 for three minutes, then 95 for 3 minutes, then 110 for 30 minutes.  In time, you can do this with higher gears so you'll be working to go faster and faster with lower gears in a race.  That will leave you with a good bike time AND a GREAT RUN. 

Have you ever seen a guy walking the run in an Ironman bragging about how great his bike was?

My A race is 1/2 mi swim, 17.2 mi bike, 3.1 mi run.  Interesting to hear your perspective on spinning.  Unfortunately I don't own a trainer.  I've always adjusted the spin bike so that my body position feels similar to my bike (including staying in a more forward hand position throughout class), but of course that is a matter of perception.  The class instructors typically incorporate drills for 360 degree even pedal strokes through the warmup and frequently make reminders throughout the class.  I've actually been incorporating their advice into my outdoor riding and feel like it's made me much more aware of my pedal stroke.

I am least experienced with training on a bike, so I'm certainly open to suggestions.  I've been told that I typically have a very low cadence, but it seems like training at high cadence is better? 

Ellen,

I've used the Lose It! app for tracking my food and nutrients for about 2 years.  They have an ipod/iphone app, as well as online site to enter your food.  The website is www.loseit.com.

Jacqui

I use www.livestrong.com/myplate for nutrition. Not very accurate for activity burn so I don't track activity on there. Just figure out how many calories I should be eating and enter it as my goal. I've generally been aiming for 25% protein, 55% carb, 20% or less from healthy fats, but endurance athletes who are training harder than me or aren't trying to lose weight need higher carbs I think.

-henry

Here is a really basic one. 

Plank- 3 sets each side (front, side, side)

SWIMMER - do 3 sets of 10-12 each side
HIP ROLL - 3 sets of 10-12
SHIN CRUNCH - 3 sets of 10-15

Front Plank- Prone position with forearms supporting you on the mat, head in line with spine looking STRAIGHT DOWN.  Stay on your toes, support your body.  Keep your butt in line, do not raise it, that makes it easier.  Straight back from head to heels.  Hold 30 seconds, keep your core tight, pull your belly button up to your spine.  Then same concept on each side, support yourself with one arm, the other straight up to the ceiling.  Hold.  Front, side, side is one set.  Do 3.

SWIMMER - pelvis, stomach, front part of quads on ball. Neck in line with spine - raise opposite arm and leg. Start with weaker side.
HIP ROLL - Pelvis and quads on ball - upper body in push up position, neck in line with spine - while looking at the floor raise hip to ceiling, back to center position and then the other side.
CRUNCH FROM SHIN POSITION - push up position on ball - with shins on ball. Pull knees to chest keep neck in line with spine.

Kathy - You get no sympathy from me - we still have ice on our lakes.

Denise

Mark,

Tell your mom "Good Luck".  That is so exciting. I did my 1st 5k at 57 with a 35:30.  Tell her to stick with it 'til she's 60 and she'll be bringing home the place awards like crazy - that's when the competition really drops off.  And since she's a beginning runner, she can get faster even as she's getting older.

Denise

Wow!  Lots of great information since I last logged on.  I enjoyed the race report.  Love the fact that your mom is running a 5K.  My kids are dropping like flies with fevers and colds here.  Not sure what is going on....put a real damper on training this weekend especially being up until 3 am.  I am such a whiner when I don't get enough sleep

Ok, enough whining!  Planning a 3 mile run/walk at the beach tomorrow.

One question:  the mucky bottom in the lakes give me the heebie geebies!  Do people wear something on their feet?  I am planning to wear a wetsuit.

Thanks!  And 'hi' to the other Ellen!

Ellen (Threejs)

i think the feeling too is weird, however you barely walk around much as you are swimming. just use ur feet to get in and out.

if you really dont like it, they sell booties like Blue Seventy Swim Booties that cover your feet with neoprene and help with coldness as well

best of luck

If you're touching the bottom you're not swimming!  If it's a shore start, you should only be running in a few steps.  Running is far slower than swimning.  On the way in, you swim until your hands touch the bottom, then you pull yourself forward one or two more strokes.  You'd ideally like the water to be at your knee level or lower when you get up so you can high step it out of there.

One word of caution for all the newbies.  PRACTICE GETTING TO YOUR FEET QUICKLY AFTER A SWIM AND TAKING A 30 OR 40 YARD JOG.  It is very likely that you will get a spike in your HR when you go from prone to standing after the swim.  This can make you feel very dizzy and disoriented.  You need to know that it goes away and how to work through it.  If you just keep moving, it goes away as your HR moderates.

Team,

I promised this yesterday but neglected to get to it.  I see lots of you trying to build up your distance, particularly in the run.  While nobody has specifically stated this, I believe that many of you are trying to build distance by just running a little farther every time.  I KNOW this is what you are doing in the pool.  I'm not sure of everything in life, but I am sure of the following statement.  That method does not work quickly, and in many cases, does not work effectively.  What it does do is teach you very gradually go longer and slower.  The good news is, there is a way, and it works much faster.  If you're willing to work harder AND smarter, we can get you in great shape fast.

The principle I am going to share here works for you in the pool and on the run.  For ultra distance athletes (and I consider 70.3 in that category for the purpose of this discussion), this is absolutely the only way to effectively train or you'd injure yourself for sure just logging the miles.

First the assumptions:

1.  You at least know how to run a few miles and are in decent shape. 

2.  You are willing to work at higher intensity levels then you have before because you understand it will maximize the quality of your training time.

3.  You want results, and you want to reshape your body.

4.  You're not afraid that if you work really hard, you might throw up, or at least feel like it.

5.  You'll thank me later for this when it's all over.

Ok, so now the warnings and prerequisites are posted.  I'm going to be very general here with the concepts because we have drastically different levels.  We can customize distances and times for individuals if need be.  First, you have to commit to running 3 times each week.  If you can't do that, you probably won't get much better.  For sprint training, these need not be long runs.  For 70.3 training, you'll probably need to exceed 30 miles a week.  For 140.6, you'll probably be looking at 40 or more miles/week if your legs can tolerate.  You need to pick a schedule and STICK TO IT.  I am a big believer in plans, hence the first question I asked you all to fill out. You have to have a plan to get better, and you have to discipline yourself to stick to it.  You have to put your training WAY up there on the list of priorities, selfish as it seems.  You are taking control of your body, and you own that time for training, and nobody can take it away from you.  If you have little kids, you're doing this for them too, your health and good example are way more than most parents do for their kids, so don't feel bad. 

Now you've got your three days selected for this week, what do I do?  Day 1, we're going to go moderate.  Just go out for the length your program calls for.  Warm up, then for the middle third (10 minutes of a 30 minute run if that's the deal) you are going to do a couple intervals.  Break it into 3 intervals of 2.5 minutes with 30-60 seconds rest in between.  For that 2.5 minutes, you're just going to pick up your pace.  If you're running a 9 minute mile, pick it up to 8 for 2.5 minutes, that's just over a quarter mile at that pace.  Surge, feel strong, manage your breathing, IT'S ONLY 2.5 MINUTES, tell yourself that.  Then cool down for the final 10 minutes, but at your regular pace.  Make sure you walk for 3-5 minutes after you're done, your heart is still producing lactic acid and will until you bring down your HR.  If you let it build up you'll be paying for that workout for a couple days.

Next run, this one might hurt.  If it doesn't, you're not working hard enough.  Thing is, only you will know.  I'm not checking HR tapes and stuff (except my own), so you are the one who must be truthful with yourself.  Warm up for 10 minutes.  If you have a track nearby, that's the ideal place.  If not, mark off distance with your car.  Do 15 minutes of hard work here.  If you're real new, do 1/4 mile "sprints".  If you're a good runner, do 1/2 mile "sprints".  Expert runners, hold tight, I'll get you a copy of my track workouts.  When I say spring for those of you in the first two categories, it need not be all out if you're not in shape to do it, but you have to do it HARD AND FAST.  I'll say, as fast as you are capable of WITHOUT LOSING YOUR GOOD FORM AND JUDGMENT.  I'm not going to give you a number of them to do, but do 15 minutes like this.  Do your sprint, then take 45 seconds rest in between, walking around, slow jog even better.  If you're doing 1/2 mile intervals, make it 90 seconds and do a slow jog.  Don't take extra rest, that defeats the purpose of conditioning your legs and heart.  Try to do each interval without getting slower each time.  That does not mean sandbag the first couple, it means work as hard on each one.  You can do it, I can show you the science behind the fact that bonking is a mental breakdown, not physical, and that's in the best athletes in the world.  Cool down with the remaining 5 minutes at a slow jog.  Go puke if it makes you feel better, you've earned it today.

Workout three.  This is your long/slow.  Take this run steady and easy, and at least one day of rest between this and your last run to let your legs recover.  They may still be sore the first few times, that's ok, don't be a wuss.  Know the difference between pain and injury.  Pain you work through, injury you STOP.  Ok, so you warm up nice and easy for 10 minutes, then you can pick what you want for the middle 10 minutes, maybe some brief surges, like 20-30 seconds, maybe 1 minute intervals, whatever.  Something to keep it interesting.  You are not going crazy on this set, just breaking up the run and opening up your legs a little bit.  As we get longer and longer and closer to your race we'll start incorporating "race pace" into the middle of this run so it will get challenging.  Now if you were running 30 minutes, I want you to expand that by about 15% each week.  That includes the middle set.

Ok, same principles apply in the pool, but a little different.  YOu need not just try to swim farther each time.  That is counter productive.  Here is a really basic idea of your workout:

Warm up with 100-300m depending on how good you are

Do sets of 50m to 500m depending on skill level.  Just keep doing repeats, don't worry about overall distance in a continuous fashion.  That will come.  In a typical one hour workout I will do a lot of 200 and 300m repeats.  Do some pull drills with a bouy and make that your longer (200-300m if you're a newbie, you can do shorter, but this drill you should be able to do longer).  Adjust the set distances to your skill.  Work in some drills.  "Catch up" is a great one.  You can find videos on it on youtube. 

 I'm still willing to pull together a conference call session for swimming if there is demand and walk people through the different videos and put some color to them.  Stroke is hard to learn and requires perfection to be fast.  I'm not "fast" for my crowd, but on Saturdays there are 5 collegiate All Americans at my pool and a number of Kona qualifiers.  I'm slow compared to them, but fast compared to average.  It took me a year to get there, swimming at least 3 times a week, mostly with masters groups.  If I want to take the next steps, I would need to go 5x weekly, but I don't have the desire, time, nor ability for my shoulders to take that and not give out on me.  I know my limitations and I work within them to the maximum capabilities, and that is the key to all of this.  I feel good because I know that I'm giving my all, and getting max results.  When you get there, you will feel incredible inside, like nobody can stop you.  It will help your home life, your work life, everything.  The outside world will see what the inside feels.  That's why you tri!

but waaa,  we have sharks that BITE (well, twice this year after none in forever) and baracudas and lovely rays and all those tropical fishies and once an "army" of squid...ooops and TOURISTS that jump in the pool when I'm swimming (it is a SMALL pool) and 1500yd was SEVENTY FIVE laps (down and back being 1 lap) and...  yeah, no sympathy 

That's the first time I've swum in the pool and it wasn't TOO bad but the kids at the very end put a kabash on my end-of-set sprints.  And I got totally lost onthe first 500 and probably swam much more before I started figuring out how to count laps (and strokes each lap as the end of the lane is transparent (so it seems).    Out in the sea 1 lap=300m so the pool takes a LOT of adjustment.

You need to use a CSV file.  I used Excel to set one up.  The first time was the hardest.  After that, it's just a matter of plugging in my numbers.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1066

very good information mark.

one needs to stress the body in either frequency, duration, or intensity.  Lots of us can get lulled into the same workout and a similar pace.  While that is good for our body healthy wise, it isn't very efficient making us faster. 

a fun way to do some interval training if you dont have a track is "fartlek" training.  Basically warm up and jog and your typical pace, then find a tree maybe 150yards or so away, pick up the pace / sprint to that tree.  once you hit the tree go back to your original pace.  Its a fun way to do it, and there are plenty of objects on the run whether in the woods or in the city to practice this.

best of luck guys!

great tips mark!

Thanks for the tips, Mark! I'm still fighting off this cold, but the cough seems a bit better. Instead of going to Masters class this morning, I just got in the pool when they were finished and did a short & easy warmup, then timed my race distance.

Denise, I timed my 600meter (our race is yards!) in 13:45! And that's still being sick *and* having another 7 scheduled swim days, minimum, before the race. It's pretty cool that I'm right where I estimated I would be when I registered, even though I was swimming nowhere near that back then.

-Henry

...."Go puke if it makes you feel better, you've earned it today."

LOVE IT. Awesome info - I'm all over it! Thx Mark.

Also- I'm down for a C-Call, I need all the help I can get in the pool.

Like Mark, I kind of fall into the boring food category - same-o-thing most days. I'm typically a smoothie person in the AM.. I started counting my cal's today, just to try to get an eyeball on what's really going in the tank.. Holy Cr@p! There's a lot of cal's in the smoothie I make, and I don't add much fluff to it..

Just curious - what do you guys typically do for breakfast?