Here's what I think....as if it matters.... (Page 8)

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
? Benjamin Franklin

So now I think I have 2 changes that most folks would agree upon.

1)  draconian penalties for irresponsible gunowners...not properly stored weapons?  said weapon or weapons are used in a crime?  used by minors?  kiss your old life goodbye.  good luck on the ol' rock pile.

2)  draconian penalties for those found with illegal weaponry or unlicensed weaponry.

3)  no weapons for folks in residences in which there is/are one or more individuals with violent criminal backgrounds and/or violent tendencies (with definitions crafted with the help of mental health experts)

Wouldn't they kick you out for looking like a little kid first?

On #3, this is where the pro-"gun for everybody" faction might have to step back a bit.  If a homicidal maniac wants a gun...if a someone who is clearly suicidal and or homicidal walks in and applies for a gun license, you are telling me it's there constitutional right to get that license and get that deadly weapon?  If that's what you are saying, please be clear about it...most folks would like to know that up front.

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
? Benjamin Franklin

How willing to negotiate is the ACLU when it comes to infringing on the 1ST? What about the 4th... ya, they don't mind that one, they are pretty open minded to restrictions when it comes to the 4th. I mean it's OK to allow a child predator go just because the police did not arrest him right. But that's right... they are just good honest people protecting our rights from abuse of power.

people that are suicidal and homicidal don't "clearly look" like they are about to kill themselves or another.  sadly, i know this well.  if someone's best friend doesn't know, how would a random clerk at the gun-licensing-depot know? 

There is no evidence in the CT case that these were factors. There are reports the young man had a hisotry of mental illness (being described as either a personality disorder or an autism spectrum - which sounds more likely based on what I have read and the duration of concerns). 

If you were to blame the parent, then you would have to say that parents of children with mental illness or aggressive behaviors should not own guns. Because in this case, at least, it was known that the mother had a child with mental health problems AND that she was a gun enthusiast. 

I keep seeing in this thread people talking about the guns being stolen - but if he lived at home, he would have ready access, and really it is not implausible that the mother would even have trained him on how to handle guns safely or taken him target shooting or hunting (if she were into those things).  So are we now going to ban gun ownership for people who have been committed AND their families? 

Personally, I think if a child of mine had a history of aggressive behaviors, I would be particularly cautious about bringing guns into the home. But I know plenty of people who take umbrage when we recommend even temporarily removing guns from the home when we discharge someone from the hospital following a suicide attempt. 

I don't have a clear answer to the problem. But I know it will not be a simplistic solution that can fit on a bumper sticker, whether it be "Parent better", "Gun control" or "treat mental illness". 

Yeah, I've seen this quote a few times. Has yet to become relevant, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

What about the freedom to go somewhere and not be killed? The freedom to live in safety? Sorry, but that trumps your freedom to have a gun, even if every factor dictates that you shouldn't even have a picture of one. And no, I do not mean you personally, but the general "you" who believe that the "freedom" of owning a gun is absolute and unlimited.

There is a freedom of speech. Can you yell fire for the fun of it in a crowded theater? Can you slander someone, make threats, be verbally abusive?

Freedoms come with a price, and they come with obligations.

And sometimes, they also come with limitations.

As a citizen of this country I am outraged at the Sandyhook incident.

As the father of 5, I'm heartbroken over the deaths of such innocent children.

As a person who lost 7 co-workers in a mass shooting in 2007 I am again reminded that you can't answer "why" in these situations. Don't try.....you'll end up in real trouble.

As a Police trainer and firearms instructor I am left to dissect the incident, try to learn how we can be more effective tactically, and implement any changes that may help to save a life.

As a gun owner, I am watching closely to the tide I see building.  I get it.  This may be the last straw.  You can't kill our children.  I'm sorry, no.

I have listened closely the last few days.  I don't hear much different.  I hear ideas, I hear emotion, I hear anecdotes, I hear fear.  I get fear......truly.  

This incident happened in a state with arguably the strictest gun control laws in the country.  All 4 weapons were bought legally.  The "shooter" (btw, I HATE that term.....it somehow glorifies the act.  I'm a shooter....I'd never shoot at innocent, unarmed people) had no criminal record.

I want to stand up and proclaim that we need to disarm ourselves.  I do.  Enough is enough.  I have stood over hundreds of shot people.  I can't even begin to imagine standing over 20 five and six year old children.  It's not going to happen.  I'm sorry, it's not.  I understand that there are many who want guns to be banned, and all of the existing guns to be turned in, or re-called, or retrieved.  As a father, in the wake of Sandyhook, it wouldn't take much to get me on your side. I mean it.  This has to end.  Again, you can't kill our children.....it's unacceptable.

My answer?  Two police officers in every school in the country.  Each police department mandated to form a "school safety" division.....staffed to the highest level of each department.  A National law enforcement initiative that requires as much of a complete and total security system that our best law enforcement/security minds can come up with.

Why?  Because I truly believe, from over 25 years experience dealing with all manner of armed citizen, that we cannot rid our society of guns......and I'm sorry, nor should we.  The framers of our Constitution had it right....the PEOPLE should carry the biggest stick.  

I don't think our founding fathers could come close to comprehending our multi-media society.  I don't think they could begin to imagine the weaponry available to our citizens.  Still, they had it right. "The People" must always have the most power.  It is up to us to put in place the protections to ensure that Sandyhook doesn't happen again.  Teachers want to teach......Police Officers want to protect.  Let's do that in the immediate aftermath, while some idiot plans a copycat. 

We can work on the rest.....but get used to the biggest and best armed society in the history of the world.....it's not going away.  I'm sorry, it's not.

Yeah, I've seen this quote a few times. Has yet to become relevant, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

What about the freedom to go somewhere and not be killed? The freedom to live in safety? Sorry, but that trumps your freedom to have a gun, even if every factor dictates that you shouldn't even have a picture of one. And no, I do not mean you personally, but the general "you" who believe that the "freedom" of owning a gun is absolute and unlimited.

There is a freedom of speech. Can you yell fire for the fun of it in a crowded theater? Can you slander someone, make threats, be verbally abusive?

Freedoms come with a price, and they come with obligations.

And sometimes, they also come with limitations.

Yeah, I've seen this quote a few times. Has yet to become relevant, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

What about the freedom to go somewhere and not be killed? The freedom to live in safety? Sorry, but that trumps your freedom to have a gun, even if every factor dictates that you shouldn't even have a picture of one. And no, I do not mean you personally, but the general "you" who believe that the "freedom" of owning a gun is absolute and unlimited.

There is a freedom of speech. Can you yell fire for the fun of it in a crowded theater? Can you slander someone, make threats, be verbally abusive?

Freedoms come with a price, and they come with obligations.

And sometimes, they also come with limitations.

Yeah, I've seen this quote a few times. Has yet to become relevant, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

What about the freedom to go somewhere and not be killed? The freedom to live in safety? Sorry, but that trumps your freedom to have a gun, even if every factor dictates that you shouldn't even have a picture of one. And no, I do not mean you personally, but the general "you" who believe that the "freedom" of owning a gun is absolute and unlimited.

There is a freedom of speech. Can you yell fire for the fun of it in a crowded theater? Can you slander someone, make threats, be verbally abusive?

Freedoms come with a price, and they come with obligations.

And sometimes, they also come with limitations.

Is there not one single person that understands the U.S. legal system.

You can not yell fire in a theater because you are ACTIVELY endangering me DIRECTLY by your actions... right then and there. PERIOD!!!

You can't slander someone because you are causing harm to that person ACTIVELY by your ACTIONS right then and there.

You can't use your rights, to actively infring on someone else's.

You can't infringe on my 2A right because I might do something maybe possibly in the future that might somehow effect you or offend your sensibilities some how possibly!!! When at the present I have not broken any laws or violated anyones rights in any way shape or form. PERIOD!!!

Argue all you want... my rights effect you no how, no way. PERIOD. When they do... then we can talk.

The problem with telling the people with all the guns that they can't have the guns is.......well.......they have all the guns. 

I still think, aafter all I have heard and read the last few days.....and now I have to sit on a panel that will try to decide if our local schools need to do anything different.....this country will not be disarmed.

Let me ask you (the collective you) this:

If you have children in school, what would make you feel more comfortable for their safety.....

1. A new set of laws to control gun ownership/purchases/use.

2.  Armed security at the school. 

Is there not one single person that understands the U.S. legal system.

You can not yell fire in a theater because you are ACTIVELY endangering me DIRECTLY by your actions... right then and there. PERIOD!!!

You can't slander someone because you are causing harm to that person ACTIVELY by your ACTIONS right then and there.

You can't use your rights, to actively infring on someone else's.

You can't infringe on my 2A right because I might do something maybe possibly in the future that might somehow effect you or offend your sensibilities some how possibly!!! When at the present I have not broken any laws or violated anyones rights in any way shape or form. PERIOD!!!

Argue all you want... my rights effect you no how, no way. PERIOD. When they do... then we can talk.

Yes, I understand the law. Perhaps you should try reading my posts, and you will see that I have not suggested, anywhere, that your guns be taken away. Heck, go buy a few more, if you wish.

I am not suggesting doing anything to your 2A rights. I am saying that better security is the answer, and any whining about giving up ones "freedom" by having to be checked that that person indeed is licensed to carry his gun is idiotic.

IMHO.

Yeah, I've seen this quote a few times. Has yet to become relevant, regardless of how many times it is repeated.

What about the freedom to go somewhere and not be killed? The freedom to live in safety? Sorry, but that trumps your freedom to have a gun, even if every factor dictates that you shouldn't even have a picture of one. And no, I do not mean you personally, but the general "you" who believe that the "freedom" of owning a gun is absolute and unlimited.

There is a freedom of speech. Can you yell fire for the fun of it in a crowded theater? Can you slander someone, make threats, be verbally abusive?

Freedoms come with a price, and they come with obligations.

And sometimes, they also come with limitations.

The problem with telling the people with all the guns that they can't have the guns is.......well.......they have all the guns. 

I still think, aafter all I have heard and read the last few days.....and now I have to sit on a panel that will try to decide if our local schools need to do anything different.....this country will not be disarmed.

Let me ask you (the collective you) this:

If you have children in school, what would make you feel more comfortable for their safety.....

1. A new set of laws to control gun ownership/purchases/use.

2.  Armed security at the school.