Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 82)

Agreed that if performance is decreasing with increased training load, you are in need of some recovery.

-- subject change --

Running greater volume at slow paces will make you race faster, without running faster in training.  You're improving your endurance as well as your efficiency/economy.  Yeah, you'd get faster much more quickly with a few speedwork sessions thrown in each week, but your injury risk would spike too.  Especially in triathlon training, where you likely are doing some tempo and VO2-max workouts on the bike, nearly everyone will become a faster distance runner simply by increasing volume.

For some people, it might actually cause a temporary speed decrease (if you had been running shorter and harder)... but eventually volume will catch up and win (tortise/hare) for IM-distance racing.  In the IM marathon, you don't need raw speed or even the ability to cruise at your threshhold for an hour... you need to be a smooth, efficient, economical runner with the energizer bunny theme song.

I'm definitely experiencing some IM training fatigue.  But, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Two weeks ago cranked out a 10 min PR 1:41 Half-Mary as a B+ race (tapered 2-3 days).  Last weekend, had a bout with sinusitis and took Saturday - Wednesday off completely.  Rest of the week looked like:

Thurs: 45 min swim/ 15 min run at lunch, biked 1.5 hours thursday evening (20 mph with ~800 ft ascent)

Friday: 8:10 min/mile run for 8 miles in the a.m.  At Lunch ran intervals 3 min on/1.5 min off.  Intervals ran at 6:40 min/mile or better. Total running for Friday = 15.5 miles in 2:05.

Saturday: Z1/Z2 45 mile bike @18 mph.

Sunday: Z3/Z4 33 mile bike @ @21 mph.

Today, went out for 100 mile ride hoping to average 18 mph. Had about 1800 ft climbing and really started feeling crappy by about 60 miles.  Turned south and started hitting 10 mph winds.  Speed averaged out to about 16.5 mph.  Ugh...

It was pretty depressing given I would like to average ~20 mph at IMCDA.  I'm hoping that my legs are just extremely run down after 4 days of pretty hard thrashing.

You'll be fully tapered and wearing all your aero gear so don't worry

Count me as another feeling the effects of fatigue.  I'm averaging about 16-16.5 mph on the bike with each long ride, when I'm hoping to do better than 17.5 at CDA.  I'm trying not to stress about it, but I'm noticing that while each training ride seems easier, I'm not getting faster.  Probably just need to be pushing harder :P

With the run, if I do a long bike the day before my average pace is at least :30-:45 seconds/mile slower.

I am getting faster/more economical with swimming though, so I guess I can hang my hat on that.

Here's to a good, productive week for everyone!

"You'll be fully tapered and wearing all your aero gear so don't worry "

That's how my math works out too!

Taper = +1 mph

Aero Helmet = +1 mph

Zipp's = +1 mph

No stopping at lights, stopsigns, etc = +1 mph

So, should have 20 mph in the bag!

x 2, many triathletes simply don't have the running miles in their legs yet to maximize potential so getting in more miles even at slower paces will amount to gains they have not seen before

I completed my biggest week with a 4.75 hr bike and then an 8 mile brick run (some sicko put hill repeats on the brick run!  WTF! LOL!)  I/we are now 1/2 way through our 20 week BT Beg. IM plan!! Wahhoooo!!!

My oddity is that I feel really fatigued and worn down at the end of a long ride, but I can still run (not fast) an 8 mile brick run (with hill repeats!).  I know bike is my weakest link, I just started biking last year and have been running a few years now, but why does this make any sense?

Fortunately I have no life

I like that math, let's all hope it holds up on game day!  It also helped me reconcile my "slow" speed on the bike, at least for the stop signs part.  Thanks!

Yea Ha I just saw my 2010 USAT Age Group Ranking 1882 out of 4264.  I’m in the hunt this year. 

Yea Ha I just saw my 2010 USAT Age Group Ranking 1882 out of 4264.  I’m in the hunt this year. 

How many 100mile rides are you guys doing? I apparently have 4. I think my coach took me literally when I said I was in the hunt for my age group. Hopefully I'll get someone to ride with me on a couple of them.  Although one of them is in an actual race which should be fun but I’ve heard it’s pretty hairy with the amount of riders.

Maybe none.  My coach has me riding and running by time, not distance.  And since my work hours don't allow for high volume, and I'm incredibly slow, that means that I often don't log as many miles as would be ideal.  Although I do believe that more frequent, quality rides trump a few super long ones.  Or at least that's what I keep telling myself.  We'll see in June how that works out for me.

I'm shooting for one 100+ mile ride every weekend in May.  I'm with Kelly (mango) in that I want it to feel manageable.  I've done several 100+ mile rides, but I'm always tired and achy afterward.  Hope to avoid that.

April has been pretty rough for me...unfortunately not because of training.  I'm finishing my dissertation (gave the whole thing to my advisor.  Woo hoo!) so time has been scarce.  May looks to be much better.  I'm leaving the lab next week to move to San Diego and I'm taking all of May as vacation before my new job starts June 1st.  Looking forward to some quality training time.  Lots of long bike rides and ocean swims.

This is a pretty awesome journey and I'm looking forward to meeting you all in June!

100 is only a magic number psychologically, not physiologically.  Remember our equation... training load = volume x effort x frequency.  You can be very much in IM bike shape without ever having ridden 100 miles.

I'm not discounting the psychological benefit of a couple century+ mile rides... I think I did half a dozen or so in my IMLP build (but I'm messed up and enjoy them)... my goal was to keep doing them until they felt easy... and that gave me a lot of confidence going into the race.  In my opinion, however, IM bike readiness is not measured in long training rides.

75 mile solo sufferfest [hard effort] staying in aero the whole time is probably a better IM prep workout than a lazy century ride with 4 extended food stops and lots of pack riding on your road bike.  And the former might take 3-4 hours, vs. 6 or more for the latter (keeps the S.O. much happier IME).

And yes, you should read into that last statement that I think one of the more important elements of the long ride is saddle and sustained aero-position adaptation.  The aerobic fitness can come from a variety of ride schedules (frequent hard and short, or infrequent but longer and sometimes hard)... but I don't think there's as much flexibility when it comes to neck/shoulder/taint adaptation.

Congrats on the milestones and good luck with the move... I would LOVE to live in SD.

Regarding "I've done several, but I always feel achy afterwards" -- if your experience is like mine, your 100 + mile ride every weekend in May plan will help tremendously with this.  The first one will feel like hell (not sure you'll finish but you force yourself to), the next one will possibly feel worse,  , the one after that will feel a tiny bit better but the idea of a marathon afterwards will make you question whether you're ready for IM, and the one after that something will click and you'll be at mile 90 and in disbelief that you've only got another hour of riding and you feel great.  You'll hop off the bike and run 2 miles against your coach's advice just to make sure you're not imagining things.

Since you'll have the time, I'd also recommend a medium distance ride every week if you can as well, in addition to a couple short/hard rides.  A month of that will transform you as a cyclist.

BTW, has there been any talk of a BT get together at CDA?  I am traveling with my real life team and wife, but would love to get together with other BT folks for a quick hello / hug / oh so that's what you look like IRL.

What say you?

I have an 80 and a 89.1 done.  Both completely alone and similar elevation to CdA.  I will do 100 miles this Monday.  Same Basic Course.