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Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 9)
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 2012-10-22 8:34 AM in reply to: #4463064 |
Champion  10618   |  Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULLQUINCY - Which make and model do you have? And before you start surgery, phone up the company and ask whether their construction will allow it. You're right -- an expensive experiment. (I have some dead wetsuits, and maybe I wil try a snipping and see what happens.) Barring that, her are some thoughts:
I'd think the combination of those would solve the problem, especially 3 and 4. i'm assuming you use somehting on your legs, but if it's BodyGlide, not only is BG more expensive than PAM, but it's not near as "slick". (And if you've never used PAM, go for the "original" flavor; the newer gourmet flavors might attract crawdads to your toes! |
)| 2012-10-22 8:44 AM in reply to: #4463115 |
Expert 1358   Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL stevebradley - 2012-10-22 8:34 AM QUINCY - Which make and model do you have? And before you start surgery, phone up the company and ask whether their construction will allow it. You're right -- an expensive experiment. (I have some dead wetsuits, and maybe I wil try a snipping and see what happens.) Barring that, her are some thoughts:
I'd think the combination of those would solve the problem, especially 3 and 4. i'm assuming you use somehting on your legs, but if it's BodyGlide, not only is BG more expensive than PAM, but it's not near as "slick". (And if you've never used PAM, go for the "original" flavor; the newer gourmet flavors might attract crawdads to your toes! I've tried it all. Body glide, suit juice, pam. Makes. Me. Crazy. I HAVE to sit down to get the effing thing off...it's that hard to get my heels out. And this is every suit I've owned. I like the idea of calling the manufacturer. Genius. I'll do it and report back. I am sure they will be horrified and void my warranty etc etc. Seriously, it's gotten to the point that I have wetsuit removal envy. I'll be at the beach and someone will take their suit off and I'll be jealous they got it off without flopping around like an angry mackerel. It's a Blue Seventy Reaction Women's...that's their middle of the line suit and it's way nicer than anything else I've ever owned. Edited by quincyf 2012-10-22 8:47 AM |
| 2012-10-22 8:51 AM in reply to: #4461989 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL stevebradley - 2012-10-20 9:24 PM Thanks! We spent the weekend with the kids attending a weekend long swim meet and spending a night at the Nickelodeon hotel! DONTO - Happy anniversary! 16 is pretty impressive...although you still have some catching up to do to get to our years, which will be 37 in Dec (although we started living together 14 months before we made it "official"). (Does that count towards 38, ya think?) Oh, it's been an up-and-down road for you, hasn't it? But your current plan of working on the rediscovered mojo is very sound, as you are viewing it with a long view that doesn't see you scaling the heights again right away. Having said that, though, it wasn't all that long ago that you won the ag in that killer 45-49 bracket, and placed 6th o.a., so somewhere not too far below the surface is a pretty good Base and a fair chunk of natural talent. Yes? So, lwet the excavation begin!!  Just through too-much running i ahve lost scads of towenails over the years, but maybe three years ago I didn't pull either shoe's elastic laces tight enough on an earlyearly morning run, and about 3km into it I satretd to feel the big toes not feeling right. I adjusted the laces and cursed at myselfor being so sleepy-dopey to not do things right --- but it was too late. Both of those nails eventually fell off, and unfortunately they have never grown back fully or correctly. Don't think they ever will. they never really bother me, although when the day comes that Idrop something heavy on them.................... I have never had issues with running and toenails, thank goodness. I lost the toe nail in a freak accident getting into bed, yes into bed. I came home late from biz travel and was getting into bed without the lights on and went to put my knee on the bed but angle was too shallow and not deep enough. It slipped off and my big toe caught the wood side rail and right away I knew something was seriously wrong. My wife woke as I was hopping to the bathroom swearing away. I went to the clinic the next day but they wouldn't remove it. Lived with it for a couple of days but the pain kept getting worst and the nail was practically 3/4 off so I found a foot doc on the insurance the had it removed. Been going back every 3 months and he was been shaping it as it was growing in and now it 100% without any bull-nosing or in-grown issues.   Have you read about how many ultra-runners just go out and get all of their toenails surgically and permananently removed. Sweet Mother of Mercy, how hard-core is THAT?? I a depressingly twisted way I can see the logic, just from no longer having to deal with the various levels of difficulty that are involved in losing any single toenails, but still --- waaaaay too radical of a "solution" for my tastes! But when I look at my own big toes and feel badly for what has become of their own almost nowadays-vestigial nails...........I take some solace in contemplating an image of the feet of ultra runners. (Oh, my!) Which is the Nov HM, and which is gonna be the "A" tri in June? Just curious! The HM is the Space Coast, I use "SC" in my planned events. The A-race spring in June is called the Pineappleman or "PM", which BTW, is the longest running triathlon in all of FL. |
| 2012-10-22 8:59 AM in reply to: #4463143 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL quincyf - 2012-10-22 9:44 AM Q, I had issues too with my suit but nothing like you. My suit is an older Promotion Powerglide wetsuit (wetsuit.com) and I called them and they offered to have me send it in to them and they would modify it for a minimal cost. I don't use it all that often so I never sent it in, stayed with the BG/PAM spray route. I did notice the last time I was on their website that they have added "leg zips" on the calf part to help with egress. Must have had enough people with issues calling that they decided to add this as a feature.stevebradley - 2012-10-22 8:34 AM QUINCY - Which make and model do you have? And before you start surgery, phone up the company and ask whether their construction will allow it. You're right -- an expensive experiment. (I have some dead wetsuits, and maybe I wil try a snipping and see what happens.) Barring that, her are some thoughts:
I'd think the combination of those would solve the problem, especially 3 and 4. i'm assuming you use somehting on your legs, but if it's BodyGlide, not only is BG more expensive than PAM, but it's not near as "slick". (And if you've never used PAM, go for the "original" flavor; the newer gourmet flavors might attract crawdads to your toes! I've tried it all. Body glide, suit juice, pam. Makes. Me. Crazy. I HAVE to sit down to get the effing thing off...it's that hard to get my heels out. And this is every suit I've owned. I like the idea of calling the manufacturer. Genius. I'll do it and report back. I am sure they will be horrified and void my warranty etc etc. Seriously, it's gotten to the point that I have wetsuit removal envy. I'll be at the beach and someone will take their suit off and I'll be jealous they got it off without flopping around like an angry mackerel. It's a Blue Seventy Reaction Women's...that's their middle of the line suit and it's way nicer than anything else I've ever owned. |
| 2012-10-22 9:22 AM in reply to: #4458300 |
Expert 4921 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible"  . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage? |
| 2012-10-22 9:27 AM in reply to: #4463202 |
Expert 1358 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 9:22 AM OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible" . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage?I don't know the exact numbers, it would vary from person to person. Depending on how much speed you gained and how much time you spent in transition trying to get it off. I am sure in a sprint it is a zero sum game for me. But it would be worth wearing it if I could figure out how to get it off. I am calling Blueseventy this morning to talk to them about it. What a great idea and if they could modify it for me, that would be amazing. |
| 2012-10-22 9:29 AM in reply to: #4461589 |
Expert 4921 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL m2tx - 2012-10-20 8:05 AM tri808 - 2012-10-19 11:51 PM m2tx - 2012-10-19 6:26 PM I'm not sure I understand - FTP is the effort/wattage you can hold for 1 hr straight. If you broke it up into chunks with recovery/rest periods in between, then you should be able to do a 4x15' at threshold (isn't that the point of intervals?). For example, if I took 5 min recovery between each, I should be able to hold FTP again for the subsequent set as I took the time to recover. I understand your logic, but you have to understand that FTP is race effort. Meaning it's the power you can hold for 1 hour assuming you are absolutely fresh when the 1 hour starts, and you are pretty much puking at the end, and need a minimum of 24-36 hours of recovery before you can do anything but a recovery workout. Think of it like a 15k running race. When you do these workouts you're suggesting, I'm assuming you are carrying in some type of fatigue into the workouts from normal training. I'm also assuming you would like to workout the next day, and you want to repeat these workouts week after week. I'm sure you could do 4x15 @ FTP...once but it would ruin the rest of your workouts and hinder your overall progress. There is a big difference between 3x15 and 4x15. Actually the difference is huge because when you're doing 3x15, you should pretty much want to quit after the second set...and you're absolutely done after the 3rd. Now, it is very possible that you need to retest. If you have made improvements since your last test, or if you were not sufficiently rested before your last test...then obviously your FTP could be underestimated, and it would be a lot easier to hold longer intervals. Lastly...2x20's @ FTP or 3x15's @ FTP is REALLY REALLY HARD. Hence why I suggested 95-98%. If you can do them at 100%, you should feel extremely proud of yourself because that is by no means a ho hum workout.
Thanks! Going with that strict definition of "rested", then my tested FTP will be slightly understated because I won't taper for a test (but that's similar to the condition I'll be doing the workouts anyway). Will try and take it easy the day prior but I figure that as long as I'm in the 'range', the workout should still be what it was intended for. On those 3x15 and 4x15 workouts - I definitely need to have the Spinervals video (I used Spinervals 14.0 Totally Time Trial). The only time I can watch TV while on the trainer is if my efforts are SST at most (but mostly lower - like aerobic or recovery pace) as they are definitely hard (if I lose concentration, then it takes me a minute or so to get back in). Back to this FTP/power discussion. Yes, I agree 3x15s and 2x20s are brutal. Sufferfest "Hell Hath No Fury" is a 2x20 plus they throw in a 3.5 all-out TT for good measure. I'm gassed after that workout and I usually plan on an easy day jog or something the day after that one or any of the hard TR 90 minutes sessions. My question relates to testing. Should we "taper" a bit to get a more accurate reading of what our potential is, or be slightly fatigued through normal training. Also, how often do you test? I tested in May and again in August, and I think it's time for another one because the workouts at my tested FTP are getting easier. I used the KK Road Machine, two full turns from initial contact and 100-105 psi and I'm pretty darn obsessive consistent with that. |
| 2012-10-22 9:29 AM in reply to: #4463209 |
Expert 1358 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL quincyf - 2012-10-22 9:27 AM jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 9:22 AM OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible" . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage?I don't know the exact numbers, it would vary from person to person. Depending on how much speed you gained and how much time you spent in transition trying to get it off. I am sure in a sprint it is a zero sum game for me. But it would be worth wearing it if I could figure out how to get it off. I am calling Blueseventy this morning to talk to them about it. What a great idea and if they could modify it for me, that would be amazing. And to your question, I think I have heard that when ITU races are wetsuit legal for the pros, they wear the wetsuit...which would indicate that whatever they gain is worth it to them...and there's no margin for error in transition for them b/c they need to be in the peleton on the bike... But that is an OLY so longer swim... Edited by quincyf 2012-10-22 9:29 AM |
| 2012-10-22 9:32 AM in reply to: #4463212 |
Expert 1358 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 9:29 AM m2tx - 2012-10-20 8:05 AM tri808 - 2012-10-19 11:51 PM m2tx - 2012-10-19 6:26 PM I'm not sure I understand - FTP is the effort/wattage you can hold for 1 hr straight. If you broke it up into chunks with recovery/rest periods in between, then you should be able to do a 4x15' at threshold (isn't that the point of intervals?). For example, if I took 5 min recovery between each, I should be able to hold FTP again for the subsequent set as I took the time to recover. I understand your logic, but you have to understand that FTP is race effort. Meaning it's the power you can hold for 1 hour assuming you are absolutely fresh when the 1 hour starts, and you are pretty much puking at the end, and need a minimum of 24-36 hours of recovery before you can do anything but a recovery workout. Think of it like a 15k running race. When you do these workouts you're suggesting, I'm assuming you are carrying in some type of fatigue into the workouts from normal training. I'm also assuming you would like to workout the next day, and you want to repeat these workouts week after week. I'm sure you could do 4x15 @ FTP...once but it would ruin the rest of your workouts and hinder your overall progress. There is a big difference between 3x15 and 4x15. Actually the difference is huge because when you're doing 3x15, you should pretty much want to quit after the second set...and you're absolutely done after the 3rd. Now, it is very possible that you need to retest. If you have made improvements since your last test, or if you were not sufficiently rested before your last test...then obviously your FTP could be underestimated, and it would be a lot easier to hold longer intervals. Lastly...2x20's @ FTP or 3x15's @ FTP is REALLY REALLY HARD. Hence why I suggested 95-98%. If you can do them at 100%, you should feel extremely proud of yourself because that is by no means a ho hum workout.
Thanks! Going with that strict definition of "rested", then my tested FTP will be slightly understated because I won't taper for a test (but that's similar to the condition I'll be doing the workouts anyway). Will try and take it easy the day prior but I figure that as long as I'm in the 'range', the workout should still be what it was intended for. On those 3x15 and 4x15 workouts - I definitely need to have the Spinervals video (I used Spinervals 14.0 Totally Time Trial). The only time I can watch TV while on the trainer is if my efforts are SST at most (but mostly lower - like aerobic or recovery pace) as they are definitely hard (if I lose concentration, then it takes me a minute or so to get back in). Back to this FTP/power discussion. Yes, I agree 3x15s and 2x20s are brutal. Sufferfest "Hell Hath No Fury" is a 2x20 plus they throw in a 3.5 all-out TT for good measure. I'm gassed after that workout and I usually plan on an easy day jog or something the day after that one or any of the hard TR 90 minutes sessions. My question relates to testing. Should we "taper" a bit to get a more accurate reading of what our potential is, or be slightly fatigued through normal training. Also, how often do you test? I tested in May and again in August, and I think it's time for another one because the workouts at my tested FTP are getting easier. I used the KK Road Machine, two full turns from initial contact and 100-105 psi and I'm pretty darn obsessive consistent with that. I'd like a ground up discussion on testing as I've sort of done it, but would love to hear from Shane or someone else who feels like they did it absolutely correctly. Not just Power either...HR on the bike and run. If there was ever an aspect of training I could use a coach in, it would be this. And to your point about being exact on the knob turns (I only go one full turn) do you also ensure your tire is the exact same pressure every time? Nevermind, didn't read it carefully. Edited by quincyf 2012-10-22 9:40 AM |
| 2012-10-22 9:44 AM in reply to: #4462895 |
Veteran 327 Plaquemine, Louisiana | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL stevebradley - 2012-10-21 10:15 PM SHANA - Well, those injuries would indeed force a wise person to be conservative in their running program! I have been there any number of times, and I think part of my relative malaise this year was on account of reduced training due to just being tired of being hurt. I haven't had any biggies (KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!) for a few years, but it's the seemingly never-ending aches and wonks that tend to sap my enthusiasm some -- and lead to reduced training! As for your persistent ITB problems, can you tell me (a) what running shoes you are using, and (b) what your foot type is (that is, high-arched or low-arched, and do you know if you over-pronate or under-pronate?) As to the last part aboyt pronation, if you don't know we can maybe figure it out by going over your wear pattern. I ask this stuff just on the off-chance that you wear a shoe with medial posting, but if you are a natural under-pronator, then that might force you legs into a running gait that is conducive to ITB. Just a thought -- maybe or maybe not worth pursuing further!
Saucony Progrid Guide with orthotic inserts. Got my feet scanned at New Balance and apparently I'm an overpronator. I was using their women's NB 860s but I found that the Progrid Guide were even better. I also use Newtons the Terra Momentum too but I have more aches and pains after runs with those shoes. If I do my hip strengthening exercises faithfully I see a huge difference. If I slack off my body tells me in more ways than one. |
| 2012-10-22 9:47 AM in reply to: #4463202 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 7:22 AM OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible" . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage?I use the wetsuit any time I can, even with swims as short as 300m (and yes, I've done several sprints with swims that short). People keep looking at the swim as the only part of the equation: is the time gained in swim pace equal to of greater than the time required to take the suit off... But there's another, possibly greater advantage to me -- being warmer coming out of the water means I can be that much faster on the bike RIGHT AWAY. |
| 2012-10-22 9:59 AM in reply to: #4463150 |
Expert 1358 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
Ok, so here is the picture from yesterday's race. I don't think I'm going to do a race report on it...or maybe I should I don't know...anyway, this is our annual "fun" run...usually it is closer to Halloween but they moved it this year. It is really fun because almost everyone is in costume. For whatever reason, the Hooter's "twins" thing just kills everyone...we're a running visual joke and it is so much fun to make everyone laugh at us. My husband is obviously a great sport and doesn't take himself too seriously...and he makes a pretty good lookin' chick, so that's....weird. We both have Amanda nametags, so I guess we had an Amanda PR...1:54...usually one of us bonks or something at the end (too much Halloween party the night before) but we were relatively healthy this year. Well a minor tummy issue at the end, but fortunately nothing dramatic.... Oh, and we PR'ed Brunch afterwards. It was a really fun day. I love to race and I'm very competitive, but it's good to just devote yourself to some not so serious fun once in a while. Anyone else do fun runs or costume races or anything else once in a while? It's fun to be able to apply your fitness to adventures other than racing once in a while, IMO. ETA: I wonder if I could have used the phrase once in a while a couple more times in there? Sheesh Edited by quincyf 2012-10-22 10:03 AM |
| 2012-10-22 10:01 AM in reply to: #4463244 |
Expert 1358 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL briderdt - 2012-10-22 9:47 AM jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 7:22 AM OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible" . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage?I use the wetsuit any time I can, even with swims as short as 300m (and yes, I've done several sprints with swims that short). People keep looking at the swim as the only part of the equation: is the time gained in swim pace equal to of greater than the time required to take the suit off... But there's another, possibly greater advantage to me -- being warmer coming out of the water means I can be that much faster on the bike RIGHT AWAY. Great point. |
| 2012-10-22 10:09 AM in reply to: #4458300 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL I'm sprinting through these posts (sorry for that one!) and almost caught up. Bio coming once I'm current. Wow - get sidetracked with life (all that silly non-sbr stuff) for a couple days and talk about getting behind on this thread! Talk about an active group - I am PSYCHED to be part of this - just delinquent in diving in. OK - back to page seven (and my morning coffee break)! Matt |
| 2012-10-22 10:11 AM in reply to: #4460857 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL stevebradley - 2012-10-19 1:56 PM GANG! Quincy has a to-look-at "disclaimer" at the bottom of page 3, and I have one to add to it: PLEASE don't get discouraged if you fall behind by a page or seven! Onwards! Ha - I get to page seven and look what I find. Spooky - like this group was made perfectly for me...
(and I close many emails with Onward! Sums up so much...) |
| 2012-10-22 10:18 AM in reply to: #4458300 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL Hey Samantha, nice job on the race yesterday! You were quick with your race report...you inched me out by less than a minute you young little whipper snapper For me, I think I'm on the other side of my peak! Not a PR for the distance, but it was a PR for that course. I was bummed as I did not even break an 8 minute pace. Then I saw the results and I came in 20th in my age group....out of 1000 women! Can you believe there were 1000 just in my AG!! One thing I'm excited about is tri season 2013. Being that I turn 40 on 12/30/13 and we're supposed to race by our age at year end, I get to be the absolute youngest person in 40-44, unless someone is turning 40 on 12/31 |
| 2012-10-22 10:34 AM in reply to: #4463279 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL quincyf - 2012-10-22 10:59 AM
Ok, so here is the picture from yesterday's race. I don't think I'm going to do a race report on it...or maybe I should I don't know...anyway, this is our annual "fun" run...usually it is closer to Halloween but they moved it this year. It is really fun because almost everyone is in costume. For whatever reason, the Hooter's "twins" thing just kills everyone...we're a running visual joke and it is so much fun to make everyone laugh at us. My husband is obviously a great sport and doesn't take himself too seriously...and he makes a pretty good lookin' chick, so that's....weird. We both have Amanda nametags, so I guess we had an Amanda PR...1:54...usually one of us bonks or something at the end (too much Halloween party the night before) but we were relatively healthy this year. Well a minor tummy issue at the end, but fortunately nothing dramatic.... Oh, and we PR'ed Brunch afterwards. It was a really fun day. I love to race and I'm very competitive, but it's good to just devote yourself to some not so serious fun once in a while. Anyone else do fun runs or costume races or anything else once in a while? It's fun to be able to apply your fitness to adventures other than racing once in a while, IMO. ETA: I wonder if I could have used the phrase once in a while a couple more times in there? Sheesh Awesome picture! It actually took me a second to realize that one of the ladies was a dude |
| 2012-10-22 10:46 AM in reply to: #4463213 |
| New user 170 | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL quincyf - 2012-10-22 9:29 AM quincyf - 2012-10-22 9:27 AM jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 9:22 AM OK...this is definitely a short course question. When would you not use a wetsuit (assuming it was wetsuit legal)? Seeing Q's struggles getting hers off, I'm assuming that's "as much as possible" . Is there a certain distance that the time taken getting the suit off doesn't make up for the speed advantage?I don't know the exact numbers, it would vary from person to person. Depending on how much speed you gained and how much time you spent in transition trying to get it off. I am sure in a sprint it is a zero sum game for me. But it would be worth wearing it if I could figure out how to get it off. I am calling Blueseventy this morning to talk to them about it. What a great idea and if they could modify it for me, that would be amazing. And to your question, I think I have heard that when ITU races are wetsuit legal for the pros, they wear the wetsuit...which would indicate that whatever they gain is worth it to them...and there's no margin for error in transition for them b/c they need to be in the peleton on the bike... But that is an OLY so longer swim... What I've read so far about wetsuits is that the zero sum is around 400-500m; I don't own a wetsuit and have never used one. If you have have wetsuit removal issues, that would make it longer. Wetsuits are supposed to help slower swimmers more than faster swimmers, so that can adjust the zero sum point. Dave's point about the temp is a good one. Depends on the water temp and how far the bike is from the water. A good sprint to the bike could help warm one up. I was wondering how the bike would be a couple of weeks ago at Amelia when the forecast was for mid to upper 60's in the morning, and I was thinking, "wet, sleeveless tri top, 67 degrees and a 25 mph wind chill factor, great". Was 70-72 degrees and the swim got canceled due to 5'+ waves and high rip current warning. I'd love to hear more on this. I'm not a fast swimmer, so any speed will help, especially for an Oly. |
| 2012-10-22 11:48 AM in reply to: #4458300 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL OK, got through page seven but decided I needed to get this part done and then catch up on my reading! NAME: Matt McManus STORY: A long time ago... No, wait - that's a different story. Mine: I live in Concord, MA outside Boston, from where I originally hail (and, yes, I am part of RedSox Nation - from back before there were pink hats and they never flippin' won it all - and a Pats/Celts/Bruins/PawSox/Beanpot fan). I did my first tri in 1994 in VT (run, bike, canoe, of course) and my last, until this season, in 1995 on the Cape (a couple traditional sprints - sbr - but WOW were they different than what I saw this year!). My wife (see "Family" below) and I decided to get into it this year and did two local sprints in September (more to follow on that). So, to fill in the time between 95 and '12: After the sprints in '95, I did more running than anything else, completing a few marathons (USMC a couple times, Boston as a bandit back in the day when that wasn't a big deal, etc.) and mostly doing shorter stuff for a few years. Then, career and family and "stuff" happened and I've just been running mostly (and very slowly, 3-4 miles, a few times a week) for the intervening years until last April. That's when a roadie colleague at work convinced me to buy a new bike (not my 20 y.o. steel bike with downtube shifters and such). Got a Specialized Venge and just got HOOKED on getting out there - it was (is) like a cross between flying a plane and skiing, all while pushing until you're drooling on your Garmin and seeing spots. LOVE IT. So, spent most of the Spring/early summer riding (from work, on the weekends, doing charity rides), getting to know the roadie thing and occassionally still running - and dropped a few pounds. Then mixed swimming in, as I was at the beach and needed a workout. Dropped a few more pounds. My wife got a new bike and started riding outside (not just spinning). Then, while chatting with my (MUCH-) better half down the beach one day said, "Hey, why not do a sprint? I think I'm going to..." She, to my GREAT excitement/relief/pride/etc. said, "Hmmmm, maybe I'll try one to." Then I started the Time Crunched Sprint program 6 weeks out from our "A" race in Dover (hard to call it that when you register 6 weeks out...) and 4 weeks from a "let's see what this is all about" race in Plymouth. She said, "Hmmm, maybe I'll try a workout or two from that plan, too." So, merrily we descended into the tri-thing! FAMILY: As mentioned above, married for ~15 years to Kim. Great partner, for so many things. Three kids (12, 10, 8 - boy, girl, boy) who are active and might even drift into tri (but are currently doing some single sport stuff and fencing - which is great by me). I'm a very lucky person in this category (more than makes up for being a slow guy that unfortunately likes speed!). CURRENT TRAINING: After doing the two tris in September, we set sights on a HM in early November. I did that as my run is proportionally my weakest leg and thought this might help. The race we wanted was sold out, so we are doing one the first week of November - kind of cutting short the training a bit, but it was in line with about where my mileage and long runs were at the end of the TCT program (using a rough approximation of the Higdon - between Intermediate and Advanced, throwing a swim and bike in on the rest days or in lieu of an occassional easy run). Kim tweaked her lower calf, and so has had to bag the HM (sadly), but is still looking forward to getting back at it (as am I to having my LSD partner back). As the HM is two weeks away, I've done 12 milers for my longs the past two weeks, will do a 2hr run this weekend and then taper down to the race the following Sunday. After that, I'm trying to figure out WHAT my current training will look like, as I'm just now reading up on how to periodize for a given race schedule next year and such. It's a bit daunting to get all this to hang together, when my workouts prepping for races used to be about just going longer and harder until the race taper and then doing it again when a race caught my fancy. I like the idea of a multi-year plan! I suppose most of this should go into GOALS below... 2012 Races: Mayflower sprint tri in Plymouth MA (got to SWIM past the Mayflower!). Placed 3rd in my AG (total surprise - when they announced "and from Concord..." I turned to ask my wife if she'd seen anyone we knew at the race, when she starts saying, "That's you - get up there!"). All about who (doesn't) show up that day. Kim was MOP AG and very psyched, too. Dover/Sherborn Boosters sprint. Something like 5th or 6th in AG and 25th OA. Was really happy with the race, but it's clear that I need to work on the run (these crazy bugs in my AG are WICKED fast on the run - sorry, slipped into MA speak there...). Kim was middle to top third AG, and also happy (and happy to be done with 6 consecutive weeks of brick workouts - the Time Crunched program is great, but very intense). Wayland HM in a couple weeks (I forget the actual name of the race). Mostly about trying to kick-start my run with a more focused few weeks. Would like to run fast-for-me, but am looking at it in the context of still riding and swimming (iow, I'll still run until I can taste blood in my mouth, but won't expect to set any records...). 2013 Races: Trying to figure it out. Definitely want to include several sprints and a couple Olys (never done one). Thinking about participating in a HIM, but I'm not sure I can register for a race and not race (if there's a number pinned on my belly, I'm racing...), nor that I want to tank the sprint/Olys, as I think HIM training will make good performances there tough. 2013 Goals: CRUSH a few sprint tris and Olys. WEIGHTLOSS: Lost 25 pounds this year without trying too hard (didn't even think I could ever, or needed to, do that but now can't imagine what I was doing hanging around at ~188-189). I'm 5'8" or so and about 162 currently. Could still lose an additional 5lbs or thereabout - and that would see me to a weight I haven't been at since I hit it on my way up as a teen! I'm not really focusing on this one - just trying to eat right (mostly), drink good beer and scotch (life's too short to drink anything but good stuff) in moderation, and let the calorie burn torch off some blubber. GOOD MENTOR/Mentee As a confirmed serial obsessionist, and a long time physically active person (and a former doc), I tend to dive in and try to figure things out. While I don't have the experience around tris and specific training (that's part of why I'm on here!), I have been around sports a long time and have decent general "sporting sense." As a mentee, I'm pretty enthusiastic and am psyched to get deeper into the sport. If enthusiasm is infectious, then that's probably a good thing! Edited by mcmanusclan5 2012-10-22 11:49 AM |
| 2012-10-22 12:29 PM in reply to: #4458300 |
Member 220 Wakefield, Massachusetts | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL @STEVE The only way a 5 & 5 week happens is if I HFUP. To be honest, most weeks end up looking more like 3 & 4. Somehow it always seems so much more reasonable when I’m plotting out the next 8-10 weeks of workouts than it does at 10pm with the couch (or bed) calling. I’d love to put together a plan that focuses on fewer short, solid workouts each week, and then count anything extra as “I’m feeling good” gravy. So far I’ve been going with the conventional wisdom of ~80% of my runs in z2, which was fine when I could stick my daughter in the stroller and go for a longer run after work. But that’s not an option now that it gets dark before I’m home (damn you, winter!), and I’m not convinced z2 is super effective at the short durations I’m stuck with during lunch. Unfortunately, most of the training plans I’ve seen tend to equate time crunched with “fewer long workouts”, as opposed to “more short workouts”, which is the situation I’m in. If only there were a group dedicated to short course full of experienced people to help me get the most out of my 20-30 minute sessions… I got lucky with the injuries – in both cases I caught them early and they were pretty light, so I was able to get them under control without too much fuss, and in both cases I still keep up with at least some of the treatment plan to keep them at bay. Although something must still be lingering from the PF, because while running isn’t an issue, there are certain shoes I just can’t wear anymore. Let’s see, what else? We picked up the dog yesterday – he’s not 100% basset like our last dog, and whatever else he’s mixed with has blessed him with normal legs and an extra pop in his step, so maybe he could be a running buddy after all; fingers crossed. @MATT If you’re looking for sprints in MA, Max Performance puts on great races. I did Buzzards Bay my first year, and had a great time (the bike course is gorgeous). Unfortunately it’s often the same weekend as Nantasket, and while I think BB is a better race, a bunch of friends always do Nantasket, so that wins out. Speaking of which, if you want a brutal, cold ocean swim, Nantasket’s your race! This year we had surfers 100 yards down the beach from the swim start. Cohasset’s a good June race, but it sells out in about 5 minutes, so tough to get into. Streamline does a couple of other races, though, and I've always been happy with them. I’ve also heard good things about New Bedford (Whaling City, I think?), Plymouth, and Cranberry, which Steve mentioned. |
| 2012-10-22 2:00 PM in reply to: #4463335 |
Expert 1249 MI | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL Amy, did you think there were one too many inclines??? Or is it just me? I thought I had read lots on how this course was BQ-worthy, so I didn't expect so many! (At least to me it seemed like a lot!) Okay okay, I know there weren't THAT many, but sheesh, I'd like none.  Granted, for every incline there was a near equal decline, but...... I trudged up all the inclines because I didn't want to waste extra energy... I'm not sure if I completely made the time up on the downs, but... I just don't like climbing.  |
| 2012-10-22 2:33 PM in reply to: #4463503 |
Champion 10618 | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL MATT - I WAS BORN AT EMERSON HOSPITAL!!!!! Lived in Bedford from birth until late teens!! More later! |
| 2012-10-22 2:33 PM in reply to: #4458300 |
Member 231 | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL Trying to get caught up on some of these posts. Maybe tonight when I get home I will be able to scan through here. Just wanted to jump in and say WOW what a difference my bike fit last Tuesday made to my bike performance when I was finally able to get out on the roads early Saturday before we had to leave for Reading, PA for the Ghouls and Fools. Keep in mind I am riding a Schwinn Katana that I bought off amazon.com about 3 years ago and have been riding in my running shoes up until Tuesday! I am in LOVE with the bike all over again - I feel like I have so much more power now and I can jump into the 20 mph range when I want to not just on a steep downhill! During the week I can only get in time on the trainer due to time constraints and not wanting to become road pizza but I am so looking forward to the weekend for a truly long ride. I am very excited about 2013 (STEVE - I signed up for Devilman Sprint this morning!!!) On the race front, I improved my time at Ghouls and Fools by over 30 minutes. That race is INSANE but always the most exciting race that I think one can ever do. Up a mountain in the dark on barely marked trails with a bunch of insane mountain goat/people. Oh, and it starts and ends at a German beer garden. Great quad workout too! Okay, I will try to jump on later to read all the posts that I have missed! Patti in NJ |
| 2012-10-22 2:54 PM in reply to: #4463218 |
| Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL quincyf - 2012-10-22 4:32 AM jmhpsu93 - 2012-10-22 9:29 AM Back to this FTP/power discussion. Yes, I agree 3x15s and 2x20s are brutal. Sufferfest "Hell Hath No Fury" is a 2x20 plus they throw in a 3.5 all-out TT for good measure. I'm gassed after that workout and I usually plan on an easy day jog or something the day after that one or any of the hard TR 90 minutes sessions. My question relates to testing. Should we "taper" a bit to get a more accurate reading of what our potential is, or be slightly fatigued through normal training. Also, how often do you test? I tested in May and again in August, and I think it's time for another one because the workouts at my tested FTP are getting easier. I used the KK Road Machine, two full turns from initial contact and 100-105 psi and I'm pretty darn obsessive consistent with that. I'd like a ground up discussion on testing as I've sort of done it, but would love to hear from Shane or someone else who feels like they did it absolutely correctly. Not just Power either...HR on the bike and run. If there was ever an aspect of training I could use a coach in, it would be this. And to your point about being exact on the knob turns (I only go one full turn) do you also ensure your tire is the exact same pressure every time? Nevermind, didn't read it carefully. I plan on testing once a year. That's it. So long as I don't totally fubar the test, I usually can make a good guess about what my FTP is, and everything after that simply gets adjusted based on workout results. For this test, I will taper. I usually do this early in the season when I'm not doing high volume weekends, so a 2-3 day taper is sufficient. Once I've got my FTP, I adjust it based on how well I can complete my workouts. If something like 2x20 is supposed to be done at 95-100%, and I hit 100% three workouts in a row, I know I probably have to bump up my FTP about 2-3 watts. I don't need to do a whole new test to tell me that. Conversely, If I'm only hitting 93% for the same workout consistantly, I know I need to drop my FTP a few watts (unless there is some other outside factor going on). To be perfectly honest, most people can get away without ever doing an actual test. Just guess your FTP, try doing a prescribed workout at a given % of FTP, and see how you do. Make adjustments, rinse, repeat. That's the beauty of power. The measurement, recording, and analysis makes it easy to to make adjustments. |
| 2012-10-22 3:19 PM in reply to: #4463956 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Fast Twitch Tri-FULL
I plan on testing once a year. That's it. So long as I don't totally fubar the test, I usually can make a good guess about what my FTP is, and everything after that simply gets adjusted based on workout results. For this test, I will taper. I usually do this early in the season when I'm not doing high volume weekends, so a 2-3 day taper is sufficient. Once I've got my FTP, I adjust it based on how well I can complete my workouts. If something like 2x20 is supposed to be done at 95-100%, and I hit 100% three workouts in a row, I know I probably have to bump up my FTP about 2-3 watts. I don't need to do a whole new test to tell me that. Conversely, If I'm only hitting 93% for the same workout consistantly, I know I need to drop my FTP a few watts (unless there is some other outside factor going on). To be perfectly honest, most people can get away without ever doing an actual test. Just guess your FTP, try doing a prescribed workout at a given % of FTP, and see how you do. Make adjustments, rinse, repeat. That's the beauty of power. The measurement, recording, and analysis makes it easy to to make adjustments. Agree. the first time you test, it's worth a taper. Let's you set a Wattage to shoot for based on current physiology, not the last few days of workouts (which can tank your FTP). Nothing like a powermeter and an objective target to keep you honest during intervals or smooth out riding on long distance pulls (as in not blasting away at 600W for the first 30' of a hill because it just feels good!). Once I got the meter, my riding smoothed out considerably (didn't change racing as much, oddly, as I try to redline my HR and then see where the wattage falls - but it did help in not overshooting on hills on raceday). I like the lather/rinse/repeat approach, as well, having found that my wattage will drift depending on accumulated fatigue v fitness v form. I try to stick to the numbers, but will adjust by a few Watts depending on recent trends (and I'm not THAT laser-like that I can stay within 3 Watts at any given time - easier over longer efforts). Going back over the data really has helped my understand HOW to ride, as much as helping with individual workouts. (edited to put the quoted material in italics, as I somehow messed up the line-thing with the quote) Edited by mcmanusclan5 2012-10-22 3:20 PM |
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