Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 94)

My experience as well.  In fact, I was enthralled with the R4 Aero when it came out, and then spent 5 months getting delay after delay after delay on the set I had ordered, until I finally canceled my order and went with another near-the-top-of-AFM-chart tire (which I promptly ruined by a pinched latex tube blowing out the sidewall).  So I've actually never used one, but the folks I trust most on ST who know more about back gadgetry than I'll ever forget keep suggesting it.

R4aero tests slightly slower than the mondo open tubbie, the theory being it more than makes up for it with its aero leading edge.  I'm not sure if the shape is also aero as a trailing edge.  If it is, I would think it makes good sense to use as a rear tire.  If it's not, then I'm sticking with R4 aero up front (if I can find one), and mondo on the back.

Supposedly part of the R4 Aero's benefit is due to its interface between tire and rim.  So it may indeed work well at the trailing edge but I haven't seen any test of it, by Trek or anyone else.

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuRj20wPpyI

Asto the tires/tubes, I wrote a long message and it disappeared into hyperspace and you know how much you hate that. anyhow to summarize:

1. I am no longer going with slime tubes (but I did use them for 2 IM builds and IM races). The butyl tubes are doing fine for me this build. I doubt I will go with latex because of the rapid pressure loss and possible increase in flatting likelihood.

2. The Corso Evo tires are IMHO as well as through the data faster than the Michelin pro3s I had used. My bike splits continue to improve with these tires. i am not sure how much more they cost though.

3. I'm not sure about switching to more narrow front tire. Right now, both are 23 if I am not mistaken.

4. Thanks Josh. You have been a big help on this stuff. I also can't believe how well my running is going with all this volume. Wish we had even more time to get my volume over 250 per month prior to the race.

Okay, apologies in advance for the continual beating of the dead horse that is gearing.

I went to the LBS the other day to ask about having my husband's crankset swapped with mine and they (very nicely) told me that his crank arm length is too long for me (d'oh!).  SOOO I am faced with the task of purchasing one quickly and having it swapped ASAP.

I know somewhere back in the thread it was mentioned that certain levels of quality should/should not be purchased when buying a crank (i.e. Ultegra is totally worth the extra money vs. just buy whatever, it's all going to work the same).  Can someone refresh my memory on this?  Given the large price difference in higher quality cranksets, is it worth it to shell out?

Dura-Ace will run you $400-500.  Ultegra or 105 will be less than half that - with 105 being lower but not by much.  FSA also has some relatively inexpensive options.  If you're checking online pricing - be mindful whether they include the bottom bracket or not.

Also if you're going to let your bike shop install it, then it might make sense to just purchase it through them, if you get a discount on the labor.

I'm sure someone has the answer....

Anyone know what size bottles of IM Perform they hand out at the aid stations?  And do they mix it to full strength?  Example... 24oz bottle needs 3 scoops of IMP powder for 210 total calories.  I've been testing it out and I don't get rot-gut from it, so I'm pretty happy about not having to worry about carrying a super-formula and potentially dropping it.

Thanks!

IMHO 105 is more than adequate, and should cost under $100.

Pretty sure they're just the retail style sport bottles.

Here is a chart listing tires tested with latex tubes.  Latex tubes and fast tires often need to be ordered on line or from your LBS (probably won't have them in stock)... so I figured I'd post this now when you've still got several weeks.  IMHO, you can't go wrong with the specialized mondo open tubular (a clincher tire) in terms of Crr and durability.  It can be ordered from the specialized website, or is basically the same tire as the Vittoria Open Corso EVO 320tpi CX.  Some people (me included) use a narrower tire up front where there is 1) more of an aero benefit on the front wheel, and 2) less of a need for durability on the front wheel since more weight is on the back and many flats occur when a front tire kicks up debris and the rear tire runs over it at a wierd angle (vs how it wants to lie flat on the road).

Ok, I'm not very smart about this kind of stuff, so please help me out with the interpretation of the table.  First, my current setup is and 808/1080 tangente clincher with 23 mm butyl tubes.  40mm stems with the zipp valve extenders.    Assumming I don't want to drop the dough for new tires but just want to run with the latex tubes.  What is my expected benefit assumming no flats?

Well, can't find the exact same configuration in the attached table that Josh posted.  But, for the configuration of current tires + latex tubes, this dude ran that setup on Page 2 Line 2 and Page 2 Line 16.  Watts per wheel being 13.5 watts & 14.1 watts.   I'll assume the lowest of the two.  But still, what is my current power per wheel with butyl tires?  Don't think it was tested in this pdf file.  However, on page 4, the tester shows results of the various tires while only varying between butyl/latex.  If you tabulate the results this breaks down to a mean differnce of 1.85 +- 0.87 watts per wheel.  So taking best case scenario, and I get maximum cRR benefits of 2.7 watts per wheel or 5.4 watts total, how does this translate to my expected time savings over a 112 mile bike?

Well, if I put it into something like this calculator http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html and enter my stats from last IM and enter following info:

Power: 160 watts, Weight: 200 lbs, Bicycle Weight: 18 lbs, Tires: Clinchers, Position: Aero, Distance: 112 while leaving all other variables as default...

I get average velocity of 20.57 mph, Time of 326.67 minutes.

If I up the power by 5.4 watts to 165.4 watts I get average velocity of 20.85 mph and Time of 322.22. 

So, net savings of 4min27 sec with just upgrading latex?

 However, if I'm willing to shell out the dough of buying best of the best Mondo's. And it nets me the full benefit of 4.7 watts per wheel. Then my time savings using the above parameters with power upped to 169.4 watts, my estimated velocity increases all way to 21.06 mph and time of 319.06 min. 

Net savings of 7 min 36 sec.

Does that analysis sound about right?  Figure I can change a tire in about 5 minutes, so even if I flat, I come out about even under the first scenario while still netting about 2 1/2 minutes in the second case. 

Guess the mondo's retail for about 79 per tire, plus ~15 per latex tube.

Hmmm...will have to consider. I do know I'd pay a good amount of money to shave 7 1/2 min off marathon PR.  Thanks for the info josh.

Just a quick post to let everyone know that I am freaking beat.  I ran 19 miles in 86 degrees this afternoon at a pace that is 30 seconds off my solo mary time...plus....just over 30 miles in 24 hours.  It's f-ing Miller Time!!!

I also have my first Ironman distance open water race next weekend.  I planned to be crushed by all of the natural swimmers, but it will be a good learning experience for me.  I need this swim mentally more than physically as I am doing 10-12k meters a week.  Man I am a wimp.      

Another 20 hour week for me.   Wife is pissed and does not even respond with red/yelllow cards anymore.  I look like I am dying.  I can't eat enough and weight is still dropping.  Slight burn out feeling.  However, I'm really fast and my endurance is crazy strong.  Shhhhh, my Ironman + Marathon plan seems to be working.   

I better do well in CdA because I don't know if I can go through this hell again.  

Party on.

Had a great work-week 5 days this week.   Ran and biked every day for 100 miles on the bike and 27 miles running.  Only one swim day, but that's no big deal.   Hoping to get a 50 mile ride in tomorrow followed by a longish run.

Like others have said, I too am feeling really, really strong and fit.   Can't wait for the 26th to get here!

Haha Yeah man. If you aren't beat and fit at this point, you better get over to your house of prayer. I am not doing 20 hour weeks and I feel the same way but I do know that I can go through this hell again and will because of that feeling when you cross the line. Self-esteem for life. Stay the course everyone and careful on the injuries. Must...get...to...the....start...healthy. 8)

For those feeling really fit but beat, that's probably exactly how you should be feeling.  Like Phatknot, I'd caution that you be really careful to not push it just a little too far and end up injured at this point.  Yes, you want to show up at taper ready to absorb all the exhausting hard work you've done and convert it to race day fitness (while you question everything you've done, entertain doubts about whether you're even going to finish, have bad dreams about crashing your bike or drowning on the swim or running off course, and resist the urge to squeeze in more hard workouts).  But the peak of your training plan is also the time that a lot of people push just a little to hard and end up with an injury... and that will not help on race day. 

Stick to the plan, but listen very carefully to your body.  At this point, especially for those of you who are getting into some insane volume... cutting a mile or two off a long run or shorting a long bike by an hour is not going to hurt you... in fact it may be the very thing that keeps you from getting hurt.  Nothing worse (well, I suppose there is, but it still sucks) than sabotaging a well executed IM build in the last couple weeks.

Now THAT is a level of neurosis I can relate to... well done my friend... well done!

None of your calculations seem off to me.  On ST I've seen 3-4 watts per tire cited for latex tubes before, and I've never seen anyone object to that characterization... and if it was psuedo-science somebody would have.  A quick google has people citing anything from 2-4.5 watts (per wheel)based on their home testing.  Bike Tech Review compared latex and butyl on the Vittoria Corso EVO CX I mentioned (basically same tire as the specialized mondo open tubular) and found a total 5 watt savings (2.5 per tire) for a 200 pound rider going 25mph on rollers.  See thread.

If it was me, and my tangente clinchers were in good shape, I would likely race on them with latex tubes.  Whether the slight savings by moving to a slightly faster tire is worth $150 is something only you can answer.

You point out a very excellent point, which is that a time savings of X anywhere on the course is the same (in terms of finish time) no matter where it comes from.  I think for some who are comfortable on the bike but nervous about the run, it might be helpful to think of rolling faster tires/tubes as the equivalent of running 15-30+ seconds per mile faster on the marathon.

And gentleman... the very first thing you should do during taper is take your SO out to a fancy dinner and thank her for all she's sacrificed for you to pursue this goal.  Not just like "thanks" but a really meaningful expression of how much she means to you and how much you love her (all the time, but you feel it extra tangibly for her loving support of this IM dream).  You can give her the jewelry there, or before the swim start of the IM when you give her that last kiss before you get in the water... your choice.

The above will erase A LOT of yellow cards.

Josh

Yep I'm dealing with a calf strain right now.  I'm just thankful that it happened with plenty of time to recover before the race.

One thing you have to watch out for is these "little" injuries.  It is tough to hold off and let them heal.  I'm going up the wall not being able to run this week.  But better than having a nagging problem that's still hanging around on race day.

Ok, I'm not nearly as technical as some of you with regards to tire selection, tubes, etc.  However, in addition to all this talk of rolling resistance and watts I saw something on the St. George coverage today that raised a question for me.  They were talking about tire pressure, particularly on some of the roads around St. George that chip sealed, which is less than smooth.  The point being that reducing tire pressure, particularly on rougher roads (but even on smooth ones), can give you better performance, both in comfort and overall speed.  I did some web searches and it seems many folks agree, depending on how much the rider weighs.

So how much pressure do you put in your tires?  I've always done near-max pressure, but unless I'm in very good shape, I weigh more than 170 lbs so that's not unusual.  That being said, I might try dropping down to 100-110 psi to see how that feels.

Zipp has a guide for their Tangente tires, based on rider weight:

http://www.zipp.com/accessories/detail.php?ID=72

You can probably dig up similar info for whatever you're riding on.  If you're way underinflated you'll be prone to pinch flats.  Do whatever's working for you right now -- nothing new on race day!  And the roads at CdA aren't too bad, for the most part.

Today's 101/6.28 brick was done on a friend's bike.  It felt awesome.

#1 - I am going to swap my Felt B10 for a Trek 7.5 or a P2 with a similar setup (and Zipp Firecrest full carbon clinchers).  The reason is that the B10 Di2 does not allow for a lot of flexibility with aerobar set up.  I am happiest with my elbows low and my hands high.

#2 - I made a 5 hour bottle of Infinit and loved it.  Also discovered that I can put some "Monster" (Energy Drink) into my run nutrition, but I need to make sure that the carbonation is gone.

a) Because the carbonation makes it leak everywhere.

b) Because the carbonation made me burp a lot.

This ride capped off my biggest week of training ever.

11.5 hours bike

4.75 hours run

2.4 hours swim.