Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... (Page 4)
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2010-10-05 3:20 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Master 1529 Living in the past | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Prayers for God's comfort and peace to Jeff and his surviving family and friends. |
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2010-10-05 3:23 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Expert 1192 Oak Creek, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... This is awful news... my heart, thoughts and prayers go out to his family... |
2010-10-05 3:27 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Veteran 279 | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Wow. I'm just stunned. I don't know Jeff but as several have said, this just hits really close to home. My thoughts are with him and his family. Edited by LunaTick 2010-10-05 3:54 PM |
2010-10-05 3:54 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Veteran 150 Hartland, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... very sad new... my heart and prayers go out to family and friends. |
2010-10-05 4:33 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Master 1732 Delafield, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Coincidently just happen to drive by accident site this afternoon after picking up my daughter from school. So sad. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. |
2010-10-05 7:41 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Expert 663 A little slice of paradise | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... such a tragedy and a loss to the community my thoughts are with his family and all those who knew and loved him |
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2010-10-05 8:43 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Master 1563 Chicago | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... I can't believe this has such a sensless, tragic end. I am so sorry to all of you who knew him....from what I've read, he seemed to have been a wonderful man. My thoughts and prayers to his family during this difficult time. So sad! |
2010-10-06 8:11 AM in reply to: #3128305 |
Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Question: Is there a tribute of sorts (BT avatar-wise) that us Donkai would like to do for this month or something? |
2010-10-06 8:59 AM in reply to: #3128305 |
Expert 798 Kewaunee, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... This is not the news I was hoping to read. I am sending my thoughts and prayers to his family. Such a tragic loss. |
2010-10-06 11:47 AM in reply to: #3128305 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... I want to share with you a letter my father (who lives in Brookfield) wrote and sent to Tom Held at the Journal Sentinel and the Waukesha County DA. He says, "And encourage everyone to keep the pressure on the DA - until they start taking this seriously they are sending entirely the wrong message, that it is OK to hit people on bikes because there are no consequences." Tom: thank you for stopping the posts on the article about Jeff yesterday, they were as sad as they were predictable. I had the pleasure of getting to know Jeff a little bit this summer when I would stop into his store on my rides around Pewaukee Lake. Sadly, at the time I had no idea he was such a highly regarded racer and triathlete (my loss). To me he was just a really nice guy who happened to run a bike shop, in fact I didn't even know he was the owner. He was, however, one of the nicest, most trusting people I've ever encountered anywhere. He once let me test ride a $4000 time trial bike with nothing more than my word that I would bring it back. No deposit, no liability form, the only question was whether I would have it back that day or the next! Sure, he had my old bike, but that one wasn't worth 1/2 what the new one was even when it was new, and it's now 5 years old. Same thing when I rented a wetsuit to use in the recent Devils Challenge triathlon in Devils Lake - I paid the rental fee and walked out with a brand new wetsuit - no credit card swipe for deposit, no forms to fill out. Jeff's comment was "I know you'll be back with it, you've been in here enough that I trust you". At that point I'm not even sure he knew my first name, much less where to find me. Now that I have that out of the way, here is my 2 cents on the legal situation: I am sick and tired of hearing about people on bikes being killed, and nothng ever seems to happen to the drivers. Allen Belonger - killed by a 16 year old who admitted drinking the night before at a volunteer fire dept picnic. No charges or citations were ever issued, after all we wouldn't want to embarrass the VFD, would we? Brett Netke - the driver who killed him was fined $114 because he didn't allow the required 3 feet of clearance. Meanwhile I was ticketed $162 and 3 points because when I passed a stopped squad car that had someone pulled over I could have moved over to the center lane and didn't and the officer wasn't even out of his car! So far no charges in the Littmann case but I'm not holding my breath. Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if young Mr. Dieringer had struck and killed a cop or a construction worker (you've seen the billboards "kill a construction - worker go to jail") that he would be going to jail? Of course not. So how come when it's someone on a bike it is written off as an "unavoidable accident"? These are NOT accidents! This is drivers not being careful and paying attention! What makes the life of a police officer or construction worker doing their job somehow more important than yours or mine or Jeff's or Allen's or Brett's or ... you get the idea. Until our district attorneys start making examples of these people I'm afraid this isn't the last time we'll be having this discussion. THIS HAS TO STOP AND IT HAS TO STOP NOW! If you've read this far thank you for taking the time. |
2010-10-06 1:57 PM in reply to: #3136262 |
Veteran 268 Germantown, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Very well said Artemis. Please thank your father for me. |
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2010-10-06 2:15 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Extreme Veteran 338 Greendale, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Agreed, very tragic and sad. My heart, thoughts, and prayers go out to Jeff's family. Also, very well said in the letter to Tom Held! This kind of thing does need to stop, but sadly I doubt it will for some time......if ever........ |
2010-10-06 3:00 PM in reply to: #3136262 |
Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Thanks, Badger Jen, for sharing your father's thoughts. Quite powerful, indeed. |
2010-10-06 3:10 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Veteran 194 Between Madison and Milwaukee | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Artemis I'm glad that your father sent that letter. I hope and pray that some changes are made so that hitting a cyclist regardless of intent becomes a crime that is punishable. I adored Jeff. He was such an amazing man and mentor. I always thought he treated me so well and he made me feel like a superstar every time I walked into his store to see him. Since Jeff's accident I've learned that this is how he treated everyone that he met and it just shows how wonderful of a human being he was. I've read so many stories about Jeff's fashion sense and his need to match. I remember when my husband bought his bike from Jeff he figured he had spent enough money on the new bike so he was going to wait to get the helmet.....Jeff couldn't even stand the thought of Jeremy wearing a green and blue helmet and his fancy new red and white Specialized tri bike so he threw the new Specialized bike helmet in free of charge. That is just one of the many generous things Jeff did for Jeremy and I. He did things like this for everyone that he met. He was a sort of hero of ours and we really admired him. I will forever miss Jeff. I am reminded how precious and short life is. "He who believes is strong, he who doubts is weak. Strong convictions precede great actions" - Louisa May Alcott |
2010-10-06 3:54 PM in reply to: #3136854 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... |
2010-10-06 4:29 PM in reply to: #3128305 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... This is a terrible tragedy indeed but I'm sorry, I cant go as far as to believe that these things are never accidents and that all drivers want to gun us down. I do agree with stiffer penalties where driver neglect is proven or sure as hell when someone tries a hit and run, but the bottom line is we need to be smart out there- be visable, know your surroundings, choose routes and times of day to ride wisely. This could be any one of us in any role in this tragedy. Do your part as a driver and biker. I think you pay your respects most by listening to the advice to work with the Bike Federation to help awareness, but this isnt always necessary US vs Them in Cars. Be smart and be safe each and every time you hit the road. |
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2010-10-06 4:58 PM in reply to: #3137022 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... jszat - 2010-10-06 4:29 PM This is a terrible tragedy indeed but I'm sorry, I cant go as far as to believe that these things are never accidents and that all drivers want to gun us down. I do agree with stiffer penalties where driver neglect is proven or sure as hell when someone tries a hit and run, but the bottom line is we need to be smart out there- be visable, know your surroundings, choose routes and times of day to ride wisely. This could be any one of us in any role in this tragedy. Do your part as a driver and biker. I think you pay your respects most by listening to the advice to work with the Bike Federation to help awareness, but this isnt always necessary US vs Them in Cars. Be smart and be safe each and every time you hit the road. I agree with you, Joe. There are genuine accidents. But in this case, I don't buy the driver's story. If we was suddenly blinded by the sun, he should have seen the cyclists ahead BEFORE he was blinded. It's a straight section of road. If he was blinded by the sun for a long period of time and really "couldn't see more than 10 feet ahead", he was by definition advancing at an unsafe rate of speed. According to the article, Littmann was thrown 50 feet and he hit BOTH cyclists, one after the other. I'm no physicist, but how fast must he have been traveling to hit a cyclist traveling in the same direction at, let's say 15 - 20 MPH, and STILL throw the cyclist 50 feet?... and incur those deep impressions on his hood and windshield? (I'll also note the impression on the car's hood was near the MIDDLE of the hood.) The statements and circumstantial evidence are very troubling to me, even if sunlight played a factor. I think it demands a thorough investigation, and if appropriate, charges need to be brought. Like others, I'm really tired of seeing these incidents brushed off by DA's, judges and many in the public who often seem to hold a deferential attitude toward drivers and against cyclists in these "accidents". |
2010-10-06 5:10 PM in reply to: #3137063 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... scoobysdad - 2010-10-06 4:58 PM I think it demands a thorough investigation, and if appropriate, charges need to be brought. Like others, I'm really tired of seeing these incidents brushed off by DA's, judges and many in the public who often seem to hold a deferential attitude toward drivers and against cyclists in these "accidents". I dont wish to speculate on the cause and circumstances but primarily wanted to point out that true accidents can happen unlike the letter above seems to disagree with. I am in agreement that the police and DA should take these more seriously though vs using its just a cyclist as an excuse and I think helping to work with the Bike Federation or others that are already working on this is to everyone who bikes benefit. |
2010-10-08 11:33 AM in reply to: #3128305 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Send prayers to Jeff from Attitude... Just wanted to give you all a follow-up. My dad heard back from the Waukesha County District Attorney. He was very helpful and went through some of the details of the cases. In addition, he was a friend of Jeff's, so he is definitely taking a personal interest in the case. Here was some of the most interesting info: "It is too soon to say whether the collision that took Jeff Littman’s life will be criminal in nature. I will review the matter carefully. We will explore all possible sources of distraction or impairment to determine whether the driver did anything that created an unreasonable and substantial risk of death or great bodily harm. I, too, have seen the signs that refer to jail sentences for hitting a construction worker. Knowing the actual law, I have been left scratching my head when I see those signs. They are misleading at least in relation to Wisconsin law. Other states may have different laws. I suspect that they intentionally paint the consequences in a more serious light to try to get drivers to slow down in construction and emergency zones. However, the same laws apply to hitting a construction worker or police officer as apply to hitting a bicyclist. If the act is intentional or criminally negligent, it can result in criminal charges which would provide for imprisonment. If not, then any charge would be a traffic forfeiture which does not carry the possibility of jail." |
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