Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread (Page 22)
-
No new posts
Moderators: the bear, kaqphin, tinkerbeth, D001, k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2010-02-15 3:14 PM in reply to: #2662674 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Half Marathon is over with and I have a lot of catching up to do, getting on the bike this week starting at week 1. I'll be using the HR method as I don't have a PM. The Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer did come with it's "power computer" but I don't have it setup right now. Wondering if anyone has used the KK meter for the PM training? |
|
2010-02-16 8:28 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Royal(PITA) 14270 West Chester, Ohio | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Week 7 Q2 done....killer. |
2010-02-17 2:36 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Expert 1027 Zürich, Switzerland | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Here we go guys, I just finished my 5th round of tests, starting the program on the 4th of November, the week after my great NYC marathon. I want to share here my numbers/results and have some comments, especially by Jorge. On WKO+ software I don't understand some parameters like Pw:HR or Pa:HR but those are meaningless at the moment. Some background on myself: solid runner, did few Half Ironman and once the full Ironman in 2008, my first year in triathlon, then in 2009 only running again, focusing on marathons and then from October I bought the Powertap and started with it at beginning of November. I have to admit that some sessions were very hard but I am use to that, especially when I do hard sessions on track&field for running. I did NOT miss ANY training from Jorge scheduling. I added a couple of testing weeks, testing every 4th week. Now let's see the results, considering that I started on 68kg and gradually dropping downto my actual 66kg body weight. 5mins test results
20mins test results
As you can notice, I couldn't improve on the last 5' test and I gave all while I have seen I small improvement in the 20mins test At the moment I have my FTP at 257W with 3.89W/kg which sets me on a Very good rating from Coggan (Level 2). Question 1) Last 5' test was at the same level because we missed VO2max training? Question 2) Should we include some VO2max intervals in the future? Question 3) Is the last 4W only improvement on the 20mins test normal? Overall I was expecting more due to the hard sessions I did in the last 4 weeks Question 4) I am finishing my Base period, would it be better to test then every 8weeks instead of 4 only) Question 5) I have seen that most of the books propose LT training sessions like 2x15, 2x20, 4x10 at a level which is >100% FT with long recoveries like 5' easy while you propose them shorter, less intense (>95%) with shorter recoveries of 1'. Where is the difference between the 2 methodologies? Finally, I thank you Jorge for all this you did for us for free. |
2010-02-19 10:33 AM in reply to: #2677988 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Plissken74 - 2010-02-17 2:36 PM Here we go guys, I just finished my 5th round of tests, starting the program on the 4th of November, the week after my great NYC marathon. I want to share here my numbers/results and have some comments, especially by Jorge. On WKO+ software I don't understand some parameters like Pw:HR or Pa:HR but those are meaningless at the moment. Some background on myself: solid runner, did few Half Ironman and once the full Ironman in 2008, my first year in triathlon, then in 2009 only running again, focusing on marathons and then from October I bought the Powertap and started with it at beginning of November. I have to admit that some sessions were very hard but I am use to that, especially when I do hard sessions on track&field for running. I did NOT miss ANY training from Jorge scheduling. I added a couple of testing weeks, testing every 4th week. Now let's see the results, considering that I started on 68kg and gradually dropping downto my actual 66kg body weight. 5mins test results
20mins test results
As you can notice, I couldn't improve on the last 5' test and I gave all while I have seen I small improvement in the 20mins test At the moment I have my FTP at 257W with 3.89W/kg which sets me on a Very good rating from Coggan (Level 2). Question 1) Last 5' test was at the same level because we missed VO2max training? Question 2) Should we include some VO2max intervals in the future? Question 3) Is the last 4W only improvement on the 20mins test normal? Overall I was expecting more due to the hard sessions I did in the last 4 weeks Question 4) I am finishing my Base period, would it be better to test then every 8weeks instead of 4 only) Question 5) I have seen that most of the books propose LT training sessions like 2x15, 2x20, 4x10 at a level which is >100% FT with long recoveries like 5' easy while you propose them shorter, less intense (>95%) with shorter recoveries of 1'. Where is the difference between the 2 methodologies? Finally, I thank you Jorge for all this you did for us for free. Question 1) Last 5' test was at the same level because we missed VO2max training? Yeah, since we didn't do much VO2 it just shows given your training you have been able to sustain your power which is great. what you can do is take it easy for a week or two (riding around 65-755 of FTP with some threshold sets and then start a 3 week diet of VO2 max sets to try get that 302w to 310-320 and then focus on 20MP and/or FTP Edited by JorgeM 2010-02-19 10:34 AM |
2010-02-19 12:24 PM in reply to: #2674029 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Donto - 2010-02-15 3:14 PM The Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer did come with it's "power computer" but I don't have it setup right now. Wondering if anyone has used the KK meter for the PM training? I have a PowerTap, access to a computrainer and a KK with the power computer. The PT on the computrainer give identical wattage numbers in the low and high range so I believe they are accurate When I use the PT with the KK computer, at 165w they seem to say the same thing. But as The wattage increases, the KK gives higher readings. So at 185on the PT, the KK says 195. And at 220 on the PT the KK will say 260......you get the idea. I don't think these meters are all that accurate. A little more work and I suspect I could achieve Lance's FTP with this meter :-), ok , maybe not Second problem is that it doesn't give an average wattage. It will be difficult to do the tests and figure out what your average power for 20 minutes will be unless you keep it very constant in which case you will have your eyes continuously on the computer which makes training kind of boring. I look over at the PT numbers every minute or so, and bring the average up a bit or down a bit....It would be difficult but not impossible with the KK PM. If other people's experience is different please let me know. Maybe I am doing something wrong. |
2010-02-19 4:14 PM in reply to: #2681978 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread marcag - 2010-02-19 1:24 PM Donto - 2010-02-15 3:14 PM The Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer did come with it's "power computer" but I don't have it setup right now. Wondering if anyone has used the KK meter for the PM training? I have a PowerTap, access to a computrainer and a KK with the power computer. The PT on the computrainer give identical wattage numbers in the low and high range so I believe they are accurate When I use the PT with the KK computer, at 165w they seem to say the same thing. But as The wattage increases, the KK gives higher readings. So at 185on the PT, the KK says 195. And at 220 on the PT the KK will say 260......you get the idea. I don't think these meters are all that accurate. A little more work and I suspect I could achieve Lance's FTP with this meter :-), ok , maybe not Second problem is that it doesn't give an average wattage. It will be difficult to do the tests and figure out what your average power for 20 minutes will be unless you keep it very constant in which case you will have your eyes continuously on the computer which makes training kind of boring. I look over at the PT numbers every minute or so, and bring the average up a bit or down a bit....It would be difficult but not impossible with the KK PM. If other people's experience is different please let me know. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Thanks for the feedback marcaq. KK website seems to say that the two parameters are settable what ever that means, but if it doesn't provide an average reading then it is useless. |
|
2010-02-19 4:52 PM in reply to: #2682623 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Donto - 2010-02-19 4:14 PM KK website seems to say that the two parameters are settable what ever that means, but if it doesn't provide an average reading then it is useless. I re-read the manual. Apparently you can get average power, you use one button (on the right) to get to "Power mode" then another key bottom left to switch between avg, max and instant power. If there would be a way to reset the average, this would be actually useful (if it was accurate). I will play with it more on tomorrow's workout. I'll PM you with any findings so not to hijack the thread. |
2010-02-24 7:24 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread In November I did my first test 20min : 225 5min : 263 FTP : 212 In December 20 min : 248 5 min: 261 ( I think I had a bad night, but whatever) FTP :244 I did the program until week 10, when I switched to Jorge's HIM plan. The biking is very, very, similar. You know those 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10 minutes at 95 or 100% of FTP, those killers....ya...you know. Tested tonight 20 min : 274 5 min : 305 FTP : 264 52 watts in less than 4 months. I have read many comments that the only way to improve is time in the saddle. Well, I spent a good amount of time in the saddle last summer and saw marginal improvements. Maybe I needed a base to see recent improvements, but I believe quality time in the saddle is needed and this program does just that, provide the structure to get quality time in the saddle. It was never easy, but wow, was it worth it. We owe Jorge a massive thank you for this plan. |
2010-02-25 9:21 AM in reply to: #2691918 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Any other late starters out there? You all are giving me positive vibes with these results! I started this week with Week #2 (testing) and recorded a 20 min 204 watt avg and 5 min 233 watt avg. Not in great biking shape since I was run focused and expect to see some nice gains out of all this. I also copied all the workouts and related info and made a pdf document so that I have the weekly workouts handy right next to my bike & trainer, no excuses! |
2010-02-25 9:49 AM in reply to: #2691918 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread |
2010-02-25 11:16 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Expert 1706 NoVA | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Yeah I was another late starter and just recently finished through week 12....during the course of this plan I saw my FTP on the testing reach the same that I did back in Sept when I got my PT---I'm taking that as a positive since I struggle big time inside---feels so much harder and the watts just don't seem the same (even though I know they are...). I now KNOW that this plan took good care of me this past 12 weeks---I finally said screw it I'm going outside....took the bike off the trainer (changed tires...)---it was an odd feeling the first couple of minutes---I was pedalling and the ground was moving and the scene was too!!! Man the freedom of the open road BUUUUTTT back to the point---did a 40mile loop that I did regularly last summer/fall---was just looking for a solid ride but kept looking at my watts and thinking that I was over cooking my legs---waited for the bottom to drop out and reality to set in....well I made it back home and the ave watts were WAY over my expectations and the IF was a hair under .92 for the ride----so I figured let's really see what Jorge did to me this winter and I went for a nice little 20' run---I was EASILY able to maintain a pace right around HIM pace run!!! The legs still felt good. So this plan left me with a great base to build on for this season and I can't thank Jorge enough!!! |
|
2010-03-01 12:31 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Veteran 561 Arden Hills, MN | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread I can't provide updates for the entire training cycle because half way through I got a powermeter and switched from HR to power. But here are the last 3 tests... December 20 minute: 227 5 minute: 295 FTP: 204 January 20 minute: 238 5 Minute: 300 FTP: 217 February 20 Minute: 248 5 Minute: 300 FTP: 231 I have 8 weeks to the start of my IM training so I'm going to go back and redo weeks 7-14 and then retest. |
2010-03-02 7:27 AM in reply to: #2492759 |
Expert 1087 Portland | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Round 2 testing done today. Avg. Heart rate Avg. Speed Test 1 163 21.15 mph Test 2 163 21.66 mph .5 mph improvement over 4 weeks! I feel like I maybe could have pushed slightly harder. Very consistent on the HR though... Which is a surprise. |
2010-03-02 8:04 AM in reply to: #2492759 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread I'll share the results of a little experiment I did, that might give some insight into what to expect in terms of speed. I had a computrainer for the winter that I must return this weekend. I had decided before I started Jorge's plan to becnhmark myself, writing down all the parameters of the test and to re-test in the spring. Back in the fall my FTP was 212, I now measured it at 264. But what does this mean in terms of speed ? I used the computrainer on the Hampton Sprint Course. This is a 20km pretty flat course. I remember doing to all out and being totally wiped at the end. Back then my FTP was 212, and my average over the 20k course was 206watts and ended with my HR at 170. Last night I decided to do the exact same course, but at 95% of my FTP which Jorge says is within the range one could use in a Sprint. I ended with a HR of 161. So my average speed was 2.64km/h faster and I shaved off 2'32", at lesser effort as refelect by the HR and the % of FTP
I hope this is useful I would have loved for it to be 5 minutes faster but hey, 2'32" on a sprint isn't bad. I also feel my ability to hold a good pace over a longer period of time has dramatically improved. |
2010-03-02 10:12 AM in reply to: #2701692 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Question. Since power is power is it fine to break up a 15min 80-85% FTP session into 3x5min (80-85%) at different RPMs (e.g ~87, ~95, ~103) to break up the trainer monotony? I did this today and found the lower RPM was harder than the other two. I typically ride at higher RPMs so this is not much of a surprise. |
2010-03-06 1:17 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Royal(PITA) 14270 West Chester, Ohio | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread I'm still plodding along with these sets but I just wanted to say I can see the difference when I ride. I can hold a higher speed for a longer length of time. Facing headwind today I could still get 17 mph in that wind. |
|
2010-03-10 8:14 AM in reply to: #2492759 |
Expert 1128 Boston | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread my olympic plan started 2 weeks ago and I have had to stop the plan verbatim as of the end of week 10. I still follow it on the days I find myself on the trainer. Since I didn't have any fancy equipment in the beginning other than my HRM, I can't get you any hard and fast numbers. But what I can say is this: This plan is awesome. I finally got outside last weekend and wow...what a difference from last fall! Hills would leave me breathless and now I charge up them without a second thought. My mph has increased as well from last fall. I am very happy with the improvements and will definitely be looking for you again, Jorge, next off-season! Thank you! Edited by Seren 2010-03-10 8:16 AM |
2010-03-26 10:58 AM in reply to: #2692657 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Donto - 2010-02-25 10:21 AM Any other late starters out there? You all are giving me positive vibes with these results! I started this week with Week #2 (testing) and recorded a 20 min 204 watt avg and 5 min 233 watt avg. Not in great biking shape since I was run focused and expect to see some nice gains out of all this. I also copied all the workouts and related info and made a pdf document so that I have the weekly workouts handy right next to my bike & trainer, no excuses! Still working at it! I'm into Week 6 and just did my 2nd round of testing, some nice gains so far:
Actually felt like I left some on the Rd2 20m test, started out too low compared to how I was able to finished the last 10 min. |
2010-05-31 7:12 AM in reply to: #2492759 |
Pro 4360 Baton Rouge area | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread On week 6, went for a ride on the road and definitely noticed a difference. |
2010-07-03 12:51 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
Pro 4360 Baton Rouge area | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Just wrapped up week 10, killer but great! Road rides are much improved, thanks!!!! |
2011-07-25 4:04 PM in reply to: #2492759 |
New user 5 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Forgive me for bumping an old thread, but the links in Jorge's first post don't appear to be working. Are they hosted at a new location now? I would really like to read them. |
|
2011-07-27 1:16 PM in reply to: #3614131 |
Extreme Veteran 732 Omaha, USA | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread Or does someone have the program in a file format they can email? |
2011-08-02 5:25 PM in reply to: #3617205 |
Member 9 | Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread |
|