re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment (Page 4)
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2008-05-23 12:58 PM in reply to: #1421775 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment amiine - 2008-05-23 12:37 PM JohnnyKay - 2008-05-23 9:28 AM I think Bryan is making reference more for those going after a KQ. IMO in general those wanting to get to Kona will benefit from more than a few longer intense rides (high zone 2 with bouts of tempo/Z3 or even some FTP riding). IOW these guys will do more of this specific prep rides than the avg AG and definitely more than the beginner. Also, while doing many 20 miles might not be necessary, still the fast dudes prob should log several 1:30-2 hrs long endurance intense runs.The paragraph you quoted does say "there might be occassions" and "in general" and "for most people". That is, it's not intended to be gospel for 100% of the people, 100% of the time. I agree that most will benefit from a long ride, but they really only need to do 6-7 hours once or twice to work on pacing, nutrition, staying aero for long duration, etc. I personally can’t see many guys could KQ with just a few long/intense swims, rides and runs. Hmmm, sounds like you and my coach agree! My longest run for CdA will be 2:30. I'll have only 4-5 run or so that are > 2 hours, mostly zone1/2, with a tempo section towards the end. Majority of the "long" runs have been long tempo of 1:30 to 1:45. Running really takes a toll, especially the longer duration. I think we've found a good balance where i can push it, but not completely obliterate myself for the next day. |
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2008-05-23 1:16 PM in reply to: #1421812 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment JohnnyKay - 2008-05-23 12:49 PM Yes I defintely agreeI'm generally with you Jorge. But Bryan was talking about BOP and MOP with the 6-7 hour ride. I think those athletes should do that as well. They just don't need to do it very often (if their plan is well-designed anyway). If recovery from such a session is a big issue, then more 'intermediate' duration rides may be the better choice to optimize the balance between training stress and recover. It's all dependent upon the athlete and the sum of all their constraints (which I know you already know ). |
2008-05-23 1:19 PM in reply to: #1421846 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment coredump - 2008-05-23 12:58 PM he sound like a great coach, ha! Hmmm, sounds like you and my coach agree! My longest run for CdA will be 2:30. I'll have only 4-5 run or so that are > 2 hours, mostly zone1/2, with a tempo section towards the end. Majority of the "long" runs have been long tempo of 1:30 to 1:45. Running really takes a toll, especially the longer duration. I think we've found a good balance where i can push it, but not completely obliterate myself for the next day. BTW, you are 1 month away from your chance; you better be ready to kick some major tail! |
2008-05-23 2:20 PM in reply to: #1415256 |
Champion 5575 Butler | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment For the record, I have not done and Ironman so take my opinion for what it is worth. I understand what Aaron's coach is saying and it does make since provided you have the ability to do more training sessions a week. I think most AGers are strapped enought for time to get 8 or 9 training sessions a week and getting more sessions albiet on the same about to time is difficult. I have heard a few people say that either they can't imagine running for 1.5 hrs in training and then having to run 5+ in their IM. My thought is that your body knows it only has to do this 1 time and then it gets a nice break after the race so it guts it out. For most of the slower runners who say this, chances are you aren't running the whole marathon anyways but walking most of it so do you really need to go out and pound the pavement for 3 or 4 hours everyweek before your race? I think this would do more harm than good. I also think for most people they tell their mind that if I don't do the distance before the race I won't do it on raceday. Fortunately the mind is a powerful thing and if you believe in Aaron's coaches logic though training I could definately see it work. I watched Aaron's training blog for IMAZ compared to IMKY last year and it seemed like he had a lot for sessions for IMAZ than IMKY but the same volume and had it not been for stomach issues on the bike he would have beat his IMKY time. I know when I watched his IMKY training he had abunch of 100+ rides and I don' t remember seeing many for Arizona. |
2008-05-23 6:02 PM in reply to: #1422104 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment kproudfoot - 2008-05-23 2:20 PM I watched Aaron's training blog for IMAZ compared to IMKY last year and it seemed like he had a lot for sessions for IMAZ than IMKY but the same volume and had it not been for stomach issues on the bike he would have beat his IMKY time. I know when I watched his IMKY training he had abunch of 100+ rides and I don' t remember seeing many for Arizona. In his case, I think he would have benefited from more longer efforts. I think to be a top AG'er, like I said before, you need big volume and volume at race intensity. If you can avoid injury your bodies ability to recover improves along with your fitness. And there are no "would haves" in Ironman, there only is what actually happens. Case in point, my Kona race and Boston Marathon. Follwoing my Boston qualifier race, I could barley walk for a few days. Marathon shuffle big time. That was Jan. '07. Following IMAZ, I felt pretty ok after a few days. Following Kona, I was righ as rain within 48 hours. I couldn'y have gone for a run, but I felt good and I was active. For Boston this year, I really ramped up my run mileage and intensity for 3 months. I sat on a plane for 5 hours and flew home to Phoenix the same day I did the race and was in my office the next morning with only moderate soreness. My point is that as my fitness increases through volume, my recoveries from training and racing also improve. Edited by bryancd 2008-05-23 6:03 PM |
2008-05-23 6:38 PM in reply to: #1415256 |
2008-05-23 7:54 PM in reply to: #1422466 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment leo mc cabe - 2008-05-23 6:38 PM pardon my ignorance, fop bob mop? fop=front of pack, bop=back of pack, mop=middle of pack |
2008-05-25 8:43 PM in reply to: #1422552 |
Expert 657 Portland | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment Actually, any run training greater that 40 minutes or a bike greater than 60 minutes is going to be of no benefit and actually going to expose the person who exceeds these limits to high risks of over training and excrutiation injuries. So please limit your training to within these limits..... Especially if you are training for Lake Placid or Florida IM races this year and are Male 40-44. |
2008-05-26 10:07 AM in reply to: #1415256 |
Expert 1148 Santa Fe, New Mexico | Subject: RE: re JeepFleeb's not so much volume comment Or Florida IM age group 55-60. |
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