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2008-08-30 10:38 AM

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Subject: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question
I'm going to be doing an "Olympic" ("international distance" whatever) tri on Sept. 6, after which I'm looking forward to doing the Philly Marathon. Since I'm focusing only on my tri training right now, my run mileage is obviously not tremendous. Longest run since my HIM in May has been a little over 7 miles.

The Philly Marathon is on Nov. 23, so I've created an abbreviated training program (only one run of 20 miles, though I'd prefer two)... Still think it's too aggressive? I tried to increase mileage as slowly as possible, but some weeks I do increase 15%...Can I tweak it or is this just a bad idea? Your advice, as always, is much appreciated!

9/8–9/14 off 4 4 4 off 10 3 25
9/15–9/21 off 3 4 4 off 12 3 26
9/22–9/28 off 4 5 4 off 14 3 30
9/29–10/5 off 4 4 4 off 16 3 31
10/6–12 off 5 6 5 3 12 4 35
10/13-19 off 4 4 4 off 18 3 33
10/20-26 off 5 6 5 off 12 4 32
10/27-11/2off 4 4 4 off 20 3 35
11/3–9 off 4 4 4 3 15 3 33
11/10–16 off 4 4 4 off 6 5 23
11/17–23 off 4 4 3 off 2 26.2 13+race


(Edited to say sorry couldn't fix the weird tabs...the last column is total weekly mileage)

Edited by swishyskirt 2008-08-30 10:39 AM


2008-08-30 11:40 AM
in reply to: #1639307

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question
You didn't include mention of your distance running experience. How recently have you run any 25+ mile weeks? If you have any niggling problems now, and don't have a big running base, you might anticipate some running-related injuries - so I'd have a contingency plan in place just in case you have to back off on the mileage for a while.
2008-08-30 12:04 PM
in reply to: #1639352

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question
nancytoby - 2008-08-30 12:40 PM

You didn't include mention of your distance running experience. How recently have you run any 25+ mile weeks? If you have any niggling problems now, and don't have a big running base, you might anticipate some running-related injuries - so I'd have a contingency plan in place just in case you have to back off on the mileage for a while.


I come from a running background. A plentitude of 10k and 5k races, several half mary's over the years, including the HIM I did in May, and I did the NJ Marathon in 2005.

Edited to add: Oh, yes, and I did injure myself briefly training for my HIM, and did quite a bit of deep water running for three weeks. Fun...

Edited by swishyskirt 2008-08-30 12:05 PM
2008-08-30 12:06 PM
in reply to: #1639307

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question

A 12 week plan for a marathon is always a bit agressive when it includes a build phase. The general idea of the plan seems solid in that you actually have 2 long runs (An 18 and a 20) and the cutback weeks seem well placed. The Rest/Recovery days also seem well placed. (As long as you don't go off on a 100 mile bike ride or do 5,000 yards in the pool )

Short plans like this are always a compromise but you do have a good base to start from. Your base run mileage does not really provide a complete picture of your training mostly because racing and training up to this point has involved Biking and Swimming.

Just a few ideas that might help:

1). Maybe consider a 2 week taper instead to make room for another LR. (A lot of plans come with 2 week tapers)

2). Maybe think about adding a few more medium/long runs (10-15 milers) Your fast enough to keep these runs under 2 hours and so they will be easier to recover from but still offer similar benefits as a long run. (Add them as a second MLR in the weeks you already have them)

3). Not sure what "Other" Training (Swim/Bike) your planning but they might be great for active recovery on your off days as long as your not totally knackered.

4). Make absolutely sure you have a good handle on your training paces; especially your LR pace. Too slow and you will lose the benefits; too fast and you might extend your recovery beyond the 48 hours you have planned.

5). Consider adding a few MP miles at the end of some of your shorter runs and maybe even your 18 miler. MP miles are gonna give you a great read of your fitness and tell you how hard it's gonna be on race day to hold it.

Ultimately, be sure to listen to your body and abandon the plan if things are not going well. Philly is such a fun marathon and your gonna have a blast

2008-08-30 12:19 PM
in reply to: #1639378

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question
I actually never considered length of time out on the road as a factor in the long runs, just thought of them in terms of distance. But duh, that seems sort of obvious now--yeah, I can definitely keep those longer runs to under 2 hours. If I throw in a longer run during the week, do you think I should cross train on the other days, or just run 2 miles or something on the day after? I don't want to screw around with the mileage increase too much (see earlier comment about injury during HIM--that was pure hell and I'm terrified of it happening again).

I'd definitely like to fit in some swim sessions and maybe a couple on the bike, too. The last time I trained for a marathon, I didn't even really know what a triathlon was, so my rest days really were just that: rest days. Cross training sounds like a good plan this time around.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this race...I did the half in Philly last year and loved, loved, loved it. Would be super psyched to do the full there!
2008-08-30 12:35 PM
in reply to: #1639392

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question

My personal preference is to run for active recovery over full rest days but that is definitely not for everyone. Although there are many coaches/experts out there that swear by this approach, there are many others that loathe the idea of running as recovery.

If you do decide to run on rest/recovery days, make it optional. If your not feeling it, bag the run. An easy swim or a spin on the bike is great for speeding up the recovery process and ward off DOMS.

As for your injury, just listen carefully to your body and don't ignore niggles. There is not much if any slack in your plan and the challenge is gonna be balancing your training with proper recovery.

If you do miss a workout, don't try to make it up, just skip it and move on. Obviously, if you have to bag a key workout like an LR, your gonna have to re-adjust your goals for the race

On of my team mates is doing Philly again this year to try and repeat the BQ that he ran last year. Definitely some magic out there on the course



2008-08-30 5:50 PM
in reply to: #1639307

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Subject: RE: Another "too aggressive?" Marathoner Question
Your plan is nearly identical to a plan I used last year for a Nov 4 marathon. I started my training the last week of August and had a very similar long run progression. My long runs progressed from 11 to 13 to 15 to 18 to 20, race 13.1, 17, taper 2 weeks. (I used the half marathon as a test to see if I was where I needed to be. This was my first and only marathon and I decided if things did not go as planned for the half I was not going to race the full marathon 3 weeks later).

I had enough base from cycling and running in previous years that I was able to adapt to a very abbreviated marathon program easily. You should have no problem with that.

I seldom rode the bike during training simply because time did not allow (I was coaching cross country during the entire marathon training), but I did swim on recovery days and felt that was a good form of cross training.

Excellent plan - it should work well for you.

Edited by kerrylitka 2008-08-30 5:52 PM
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