I love my gas guzzling V8 truck (Page 3)
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2009-03-31 1:45 PM in reply to: #2051528 |
Hawai'i | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 8:33 AM bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 2:25 PM I disagree, my point was that bigger cars are not safer to society. They are more likely to get into an accident than a small car... But we were talking about the safety of the vehicle you are driving... Got any facts to back that up....? No, you were talking about the safety of the vehicle you are driving, that was not my point. As I said, my point was not in line with your statement. I am not going to go and grab research that shows that a heavier vehicle is more likely to get in an accident than a lighter vehicle. So you win and I apologize for expressing my differing opinion on my belief of what safe is. And to keep in line with the thread topic I love my SUV. |
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2009-03-31 1:52 PM in reply to: #2051570 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 2:45 PM I am not going to go and grab research that shows that a heavier vehicle is more likely to get in an accident than a lighter vehicle. So you win and I apologize for expressing my differing opinion on my belief of what safe is. It's not about winning. I have no issue with you expressing your opinion. However you cannot state a "fact" like that and not expect to be asked to back it up. I think that's fair. |
2009-03-31 2:17 PM in reply to: #2050631 |
Master 2356 Fenton, MI | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck Its evolved a long ways from this photo, but I've always loved the "aero oxymoron". http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=8330&photoid=67715 Kristen, I know of some good offroading areas that you can take a stock cherokee and have a blast. |
2009-03-31 2:25 PM in reply to: #2051489 |
Slower Than You 9566 Cracklantaburbs | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 2:21 PM You are 100% correct (well 80% as you are not taking into account the better ABS technology in newer, larger cars vs older smaller cars). Also red cars get pulled over for speeding more than black. On this point: ABS does not help you stop sooner, it actually increases stopping distances . It does allow you to maintain steering control under heavy braking. Edited by bcart1991 2009-03-31 2:25 PM |
2009-03-31 2:25 PM in reply to: #2051607 |
Hawai'i | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 8:52 AM bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 2:45 PM I am not going to go and grab research that shows that a heavier vehicle is more likely to get in an accident than a lighter vehicle. So you win and I apologize for expressing my differing opinion on my belief of what safe is. It's not about winning. I have no issue with you expressing your opinion. However you cannot state a "fact" like that and not expect to be asked to back it up. I think that's fair. Explain to me what part of my argument you take issue with. I am saying that a car that is heavier, less manueverable and has an increased stopping distance is more likely to get in an accident than one that is lighter, more manueverable and can stop quicker and that when an accident does happen the bigger vehicle is more likely to harm the smaller vehicle/person. anyone can play the show me some facts game. Where are your statistics that show a Truck/SUV is more likely to avoid an accident or even as likely to avoid an accident as a smaller car? I am talking modern day cars that are equipped similarly not a '78 datsun with no safety features vs a Dodge Durango with airbags and ABS. |
2009-03-31 2:36 PM in reply to: #2051497 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 3:25 PM Explain to me what part of my argument you take issue with. You said... bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 2:25 PM They are more likely to get into an accident than a small car Just becuase a truck is heavier and less "maneuverable" does not mean it will get in more accidents. Most people who drive larger vehicles realize this and leave more room, brake sooner, accelerate slower etc... You statement is pure conjecture. I'm just asking you to back up your assertion that large vehicles get into more accidents than smaller ones. Otherwise it's just opinion. Where are your statistics that show a Truck/SUV is more likely to avoid an accident or even as likely to avoid an accident as a smaller car? I'm not the one who made the statement. You did. It's not up to me to prove your argument.
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2009-03-31 2:37 PM in reply to: #2051698 |
Extreme Veteran 928 Chesapeake, VA | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 3:25 PM TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 8:52 AM bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 2:45 PM I am not going to go and grab research that shows that a heavier vehicle is more likely to get in an accident than a lighter vehicle. So you win and I apologize for expressing my differing opinion on my belief of what safe is. It's not about winning. I have no issue with you expressing your opinion. However you cannot state a "fact" like that and not expect to be asked to back it up. I think that's fair. Explain to me what part of my argument you take issue with. I am saying that a car that is heavier, less manueverable and has an increased stopping distance is more likely to get in an accident than one that is lighter, more manueverable and can stop quicker and that when an accident does happen the bigger vehicle is more likely to harm the smaller vehicle/person. anyone can play the show me some facts game. Where are your statistics that show a Truck/SUV is more likely to avoid an accident or even as likely to avoid an accident as a smaller car? I am talking modern day cars that are equipped similarly not a '78 datsun with no safety features vs a Dodge Durango with airbags and ABS. I truely believe my new buburban can stop quicker then any of my german cars.. and I put it test a couple of weeks ago by nearly missing a deer.. I was impressed. |
2009-03-31 2:45 PM in reply to: #2051749 |
Slower Than You 9566 Cracklantaburbs | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck kraut_fan - 2009-03-31 3:37 PM I truely believe my new buburban can stop quicker then any of my german cars.. and I put it test a couple of weeks ago by nearly missing a deer.. I was impressed. Physics is on line one BEGGING to argue this with you. |
2009-03-31 2:53 PM in reply to: #2051769 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck bcart1991 - 2009-03-31 3:45 PM kraut_fan - 2009-03-31 3:37 PM I truely believe my new buburban can stop quicker then any of my german cars.. and I put it test a couple of weeks ago by nearly missing a deer.. I was impressed. Physics is on line one BEGGING to argue this with you.So you are saying that the ONLY factor is braking is mass? That's incorrect. Here is a chart I found in about 5 seconds of searching...
The colt (the lightest of all the cars) had the worst stopping distance... Also notice the Lincoln (larger than the Nissan) has better stopping distance. ---edited to remove snippyness--- Edited by TriRSquared 2009-03-31 2:55 PM |
2009-03-31 2:57 PM in reply to: #2051671 |
Veteran 178 | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck matt3liv - 2009-03-31 2:17 PM Its evolved a long ways from this photo, but I've always loved the "aero oxymoron". http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=8330&photoid=67715 Kristen, I know of some good offroading areas that you can take a stock cherokee and have a blast.
is that the AEV kit I'm always drolling over when i'm in the bathroom at work work reading my quadratec catalog? I'm on my third wrangler right now |
2009-03-31 2:58 PM in reply to: #2051743 |
Hawai'i | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 9:36 AM Most people who drive larger vehicles realize this and leave more room, brake sooner, accelerate slower etc... You statement is pure conjecture. You ding me on stating facts then follow up with the line above. I concede that it is my "opinion" that bigger more cumbersome things are more likely to bump into things than smaller less cumbersome ones. |
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2009-03-31 2:58 PM in reply to: #2051785 |
Slower Than You 9566 Cracklantaburbs | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 3:53 PM So you are saying that the ONLY factor is braking is mass? That's incorrect. Here is a chart I found in about 5 seconds of searching... No, I'm not. Nice chart. Now find one comparing that M3 to a Suburban. Brake technology has also improved significantly, though it still seems to be lagging on trucks (that still come with drum brakes). I'm saying I regularly see large trucks with smaller brakes than are on my 3 Series. That is not especially conducive to shorter stopping distances. |
2009-03-31 3:07 PM in reply to: #2051802 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck bigislandfj - 2009-03-31 3:58 PM TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 9:36 AM You ding me on stating facts then follow up with the line above. I concede that it is my "opinion" that bigger more cumbersome things are more likely to bump into things than smaller less cumbersome ones. Most people who drive larger vehicles realize this and leave more room, brake sooner, accelerate slower etc... You statement is pure conjecture. OK fair enough... bcart1991 - 2009-03-31 3:58 PM TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 3:53 PM So you are saying that the ONLY factor is braking is mass? That's incorrect. No, I'm not. Nice chart. Now find one comparing that M3 to a Suburban. Brake technology has also improved significantly, though it still seems to be lagging on trucks (that still come with drum brakes). I'm saying I regularly see large trucks with smaller brakes than are on my 3 Series. That is not especially conducive to shorter stopping distances.Here is a chart I found in about 5 seconds of searching...
I'm not going to argue that a BMW is going to stop slower than a truck. I'm just saying there is a LOT more to it than mass. |
2009-03-31 3:20 PM in reply to: #2051834 |
Slower Than You 9566 Cracklantaburbs | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck TriRSquared - 2009-03-31 4:07 PM I'm not going to argue that a BMW is going to stop slower than a truck. I'm just saying there is a LOT more to it than mass. It's okay, you tried. Of course there's a lot more involved. Things like swept area, coefficient of friction between the pad/disc, brake booster size, etc. And the ULTIMATE variable: the driver... |
2009-03-31 3:26 PM in reply to: #2051671 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Canton, MI | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck matt3liv - 2009-03-31 3:17 PM Its evolved a long ways from this photo, but I've always loved the "aero oxymoron". http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=8330&photoid=67715 Kristen, I know of some good offroading areas that you can take a stock cherokee and have a blast.
Where? |
2009-03-31 3:44 PM in reply to: #2051800 |
Master 2356 Fenton, MI | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck kburk09 - 2009-03-31 3:57 PM matt3liv - 2009-03-31 2:17 PM Its evolved a long ways from this photo, but I've always loved the "aero oxymoron". http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=8330&photoid=67715 Kristen, I know of some good offroading areas that you can take a stock cherokee and have a blast.
is that the AEV kit I'm always drolling over when i'm in the bathroom at work work reading my quadratec catalog? I'm on my third wrangler right now Nope, its a scrambler. Thats how it looked when I first got it. Its come a long ways from there. It was a bit of a basket case. Its riding a lot lower now, but its way more flexible. I've seen some of the aev brute stuff in person and its nice. |
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2009-03-31 6:03 PM in reply to: #2050631 |
Extreme Veteran 365 Hattiesburg, MS | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck Well dang I guess I should have scrolled dowm before i posted in the weenie car thread. I love some V8s! My tiny little tacoma right isn't cutting it. I shouldn't have gotten rid of my 4wd F150 I was gettin around 10mpg but that was with larger tires. I will be back among the V8 ranks with my gas burning 59 GMC 100. I got the tiny small block between the frame rails. |
2009-04-01 8:20 AM in reply to: #2050631 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck Wow - I guess I'm not surprised by all the drama in here.
For the record, I love my big SUV and I have it primarily to tow my beloved boat, which gets less than 1 mile per gallon when we're really hauling azz. I am currently shopping for a lightly used Suburban built on their 3/4 ton platform as a tow vehicle upgrade. |
2009-04-01 9:25 AM in reply to: #2050631 |
Veteran 247 CA | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck I had a project about a year ago on discussing the the safety "advantages" of SUVs and large vehicles. Basically, SUVs and large vehicle owners, like the OP, have the mentality that they ARE going to get into an accident and it is inevitable, thusly, they are buying into an automobile that emphasizes what's called passive safety - the idea of protecting the driver and occupants upon an accident - not preventing it. Smaller cars convey the idea of active safety, focusing on not getting into an accident in the first place. Being more agile, being able to brake harder, having more control in sketchy situations, etc. It's all deeper than how I'm simplifying it, but basically - why prepare yourself for an accident when you can avoid it? Not all crashes are avoidable, but many are preventable. But I've been in this world long enough that it is very hard, if not impossible, to convince others to try and see things in another light, and am not trying to force anything on anyone, including the OP. I've given up on that a very long time ago. Just for the record, I do not own a car of my own, commute by bicycle, and recently got a motorbike. If I could only have one of the two, it would easily be the bicycle. I guess I sound like a monumental hippie now, but I've been a motorsport enthusiast for a long time, and if I had to chug gas like it was going out of style like an SUV, I would happily take a modern GTO with the six litre. Edited by AnthonyF 2009-04-01 9:28 AM |
2009-04-01 9:31 AM in reply to: #2053922 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck AnthonyF - 2009-04-01 10:25 AM Basically, SUVs and large vehicle owners, like the OP... I'm not sure how big the drivers are would affect vehicle safety, unless they are so fat/tall/muscular that braking performance is adversely affected. But, thinking about it, if a really large dude is driving and the vehicle's suspension can't compensate, it could contribute to rollover accidents. Also, how do you know how big the OP is? Edited by run4yrlif 2009-04-01 9:32 AM |
2009-04-01 10:06 AM in reply to: #2053922 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck AnthonyF - 2009-04-01 10:25 AM Basically, SUVs and large vehicle owners, like the OP, have the mentality that they ARE going to get into an accident and it is inevitable, thusly, they are buying into an automobile that emphasizes what's called passive safety - the idea of protecting the driver and occupants upon an accident - not preventing it. I think that is a rather broad and generalized statement. My big truck handles 10x times better than some of the eco-boxes I have driven as rental cars. I did not buy my truck with the mentality you said above. However I did make sure I bought a safe vehicle in the event something did happen. If you are not thinking about the possibility of a wreck then you are being shortsighted. |
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2009-04-01 10:54 AM in reply to: #2053922 |
Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck AnthonyF - 2009-04-01 10:25 AM Smaller cars convey the idea of active safety, focusing on not getting into an accident in the first place. Being more agile, being able to brake harder, having more control in sketchy situations, etc. It's all deeper than how I'm simplifying it, but basically - why prepare yourself for an accident when you can avoid it? Not all crashes are avoidable, but many are preventable. This assumption requires something that isn't always true... that the driver knows how to drive, and that the driver is always situationaly aware. Does joe-blow driver know how to accelerate through a high speed swerve? Even if he does, will that be his instinct reaction? Probably not. Chances are he will lock the brakes and skid, at which point his fancy handling car is worthless. The thing about accidents, is that they are preventable, but how many people have the reaction time to make a difference. IMHO, if you really want to be a safer driver, go to a driving school that includes track time and actually learn how to handle a car |
2009-04-01 11:36 AM in reply to: #2054166 |
Veteran 247 CA | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck
run4yrlif - 2009-04-01 7:31 AM I'm not sure how big the drivers are would affect vehicle safety, unless they are so fat/tall/muscular that braking performance is adversely affected. But, thinking about it, if a really large dude is driving and the vehicle's suspension can't compensate, it could contribute to rollover accidents. Also, how do you know how big the OP is? Well done. TriRSquared - 2009-04-01 8:06 AM I think that is a rather broad and generalized statement. My big truck handles 10x times better than some of the eco-boxes I have driven as rental cars. I did not buy my truck with the mentality you said above. However I did make sure I bought a safe vehicle in the event something did happen. If you are not thinking about the possibility of a wreck then you are being shortsighted. You've placed safety high on your list of priorities, and to me, it seemed that safety was defined by you as holding up well in the event of a crash, not the prevention of one. If that's the case or not, it's not a big deal, as I'm not trying to change the way you see things. I will admit though I'm not in the know of trucks, and I know Toyota has had a performance version of their Tundra out at one time, so your truck may be a better performer than most SUVs. It sounds like your vehicle is more stable and balanced than an SUV, so I have no statements to make. I agree with you on not thinking about wrecking is a bad idea, but on the other hand, focusing too much on wrecking can be just as shortsighted as well.
vortmax - 2009-04-01 8:54 AM This assumption requires something that isn't always true... that the driver knows how to drive, and that the driver is always situationaly aware. Does joe-blow driver know how to accelerate through a high speed swerve? Even if he does, will that be his instinct reaction? Probably not. Chances are he will lock the brakes and skid, at which point his fancy handling car is worthless. The thing about accidents, is that they are preventable, but how many people have the reaction time to make a difference. IMHO, if you really want to be a safer driver, go to a driving school that includes track time and actually learn how to handle a car
You speak the truth about driver skill - I wish an HPDE or something of the sort would be mandatory for drivers, but I know that won't be the case, if ever, for the US. That said, I'm not trying to make a blanket statement that all SUV drivers are bad and all small car drivers are always safer drivers. Drivers in both camps are all over the place. But when you take that average inattentive driver who's going to lock up the front at the first sign of trouble and throw him into either camp, I'd rather see a coupe or family sedan sliding into me than a three ton Escalade. Edited by AnthonyF 2009-04-01 11:56 AM |
2009-04-01 12:30 PM in reply to: #2050631 |
Master 2356 Fenton, MI | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck FWIW, my suburban was nimble enough to avoid getting t-boned today. She didn't even look back. The funny thing is, I immediately thought of this thread. And since this is a tri forum, I was on my way to swim. |
2009-04-01 1:37 PM in reply to: #2054476 |
Extreme Veteran 928 Chesapeake, VA | Subject: RE: I love my gas guzzling V8 truck matt3liv - 2009-04-01 1:30 PM FWIW, my suburban was nimble enough to avoid getting t-boned today. She didn't even look back. The funny thing is, I immediately thought of this thread. And since this is a tri forum, I was on my way to swim. AMEN... so, can you live without your burb. |
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