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2009-05-01 10:24 AM
in reply to: #2123170

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler

I'm pretty certain this is the death of the UAW.  Put them in control of both sides of the bargaining table and what are they gonna do?  Where will they get most of their money from, that's what they're going to do.  I bet it's not going to be raise wages and increase benefits...  I bet it will be slash wages, lay off senior employees, cut benefits and raise profit margins.  



2009-05-01 1:13 PM
in reply to: #2121275

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler

Come on guys you know exactly what this is and why it makes sense.  Let’s review Chrysler is heavy industry and will be owned by the government, and the workers.  What is it when the major means of production are owned by the Government?  Think hard you’ll figure it out even if you do not want to.  The best thing is that soon 2 of the 3 auto makers in the U.S. will be owned by the Government combine that with the upcoming government ownership of the major banking institutions and we will have a real workers utopia. All Hail the mighty Obama.

2009-05-01 3:30 PM
in reply to: #2123152

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler
D.Z. - 2009-05-01 9:21 AM
I'm not arguing the truth of your statement, but please keep in mind that your car today weighs more (safety standards) and burns cleaner.

Comparing the 2 is not really fair to either.

I think it's fair. That my 15-year-old car performs reasonably close to a new "efficiency-class" car in terms of fuel mileage makes it valid.

My car was produced 4 years after the '89 Civic. Yes, it's heavier with its cast-iron block inline-6 engine (3070lbs vs. 2150lbs), and it's larger and more powerful overall. My car has ABS and one airbag, no other "modern" safety advancements. I'm pretty sure both cars have the same equimpent with regard to emissions. Catalytic converter, oxygen sensor, not much else in there...

The automakers got all caught up in making the cars bigger (a new Civic is larger than my '93 3-Series), adding electronic gizmos, and the mileage suffered. Now that efficiency is back en vogue, they're scrambling.
2009-05-01 4:32 PM
in reply to: #2121386

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler

TriRSquared - 2009-04-30 2:52 PM
So Fresh So Clean - 2009-04-30 2:32 PM You know, there are many young adults who would love to have a job like that for $14, regardless of the economy. How this union was able to turn the job into $28/hr w/ benefits is beyond me. Stupid unions.


$28/hr plus benefits is just starting pay.

Show me the contract that shows that a new hire earns $28/hr plus benefits to start.  It's total BS, it's not happening!  The new contracts that the UAW has from my read on it are comparable to what any American working for Toyota or Honda in a US plant are making.  So is that okay if a UAW worker makes the same as someone working for a foreign car company, or at least in the ball park?

Yea there may be some old timers making big bucks now, but when they retire that 's all gone for the UAW.  Things aren't like they used to be in the 90's.

There's is no one making $28/hour to start, plus theres no one starting a new job only lay offs in these parts and plants closing.

Actually having the UAW owning part of a company they have to take care of workers may help more then it hurts, as they won't be as likely to go on strike or get crazy job bank type deals since they'll realize how much money all of those things cost and as part owner they'll have to balance things out.

You seem real easy to call out unions, are you doing the same to all the financial companies and bank executives?  Just a curious question since the government doesn't even know where more then what was it 77 billion dollars actually went to with possibly more going that way.

 

2009-05-01 6:38 PM
in reply to: #2124534

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler
bcart1991 - 2009-05-01 4:30 PM

D.Z. - 2009-05-01 9:21 AM
I'm not arguing the truth of your statement, but please keep in mind that your car today weighs more (safety standards) and burns cleaner.

Comparing the 2 is not really fair to either.

I think it's fair. That my 15-year-old car performs reasonably close to a new "efficiency-class" car in terms of fuel mileage makes it valid.

My car was produced 4 years after the '89 Civic. Yes, it's heavier with its cast-iron block inline-6 engine (3070lbs vs. 2150lbs), and it's larger and more powerful overall. My car has ABS and one airbag, no other "modern" safety advancements. I'm pretty sure both cars have the same equimpent with regard to emissions. Catalytic converter, oxygen sensor, not much else in there...

The automakers got all caught up in making the cars bigger (a new Civic is larger than my '93 3-Series), adding electronic gizmos, and the mileage suffered. Now that efficiency is back en vogue, they're scrambling.


You're just talking about options. It's all the other stuff. Reinforcements in the doors, the front and rear bumpers.

If you want to compare the burn of the 2 two engines, go stick your nose in the tailpipe of each car. Tell me which one is burning cleaner. That's not intended to be smarmy, I've spent alot of time around cars, and can tell the difference between a new engine and 20 yearold engine.

True, your 89 civic got great gas mileage. My friend has a 92 DX and it would go forever. There is no arguing that fact. Personally, I don't think it's a fair comparison for the reasons I stated.


2009-05-02 7:32 AM
in reply to: #2124687

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Subject: RE: The UAW to own 55% of Chrysler
rottieguy - 2009-05-01 5:32 PM

TriRSquared - 2009-04-30 2:52 PM
So Fresh So Clean - 2009-04-30 2:32 PM You know, there are many young adults who would love to have a job like that for $14, regardless of the economy. How this union was able to turn the job into $28/hr w/ benefits is beyond me. Stupid unions.


$28/hr plus benefits is just starting pay.

Show me the contract that shows that a new hire earns $28/hr plus benefits to start.  It's total BS, it's not happening! 



I'm just quoting the article in the first post.  If they are incorrect then so be it.  The point is they are lower the wages for the "new" guys.

 

You seem real easy to call out unions, are you doing the same to all the financial companies and bank executives?  Just a curious question since the government doesn't even know where more then what was it 77 billion dollars actually went to with possibly more going that way.

We've called out the bank exec in the past.  However the unions are part of the reason Chrysler & GM are failing (notice I said part).  They have refused time and again to make real concessions and have contributed ot the overall spending culture at these companies.  Toyota, Nissan BMW an others can produce great cars in this country with no unions.  Does that help prove they are not needed?

We can arguge about this all day.  There is no way I'm going to convince you unions are not needed and there is no way you can convince me they are required.



Edited by TriRSquared 2009-05-02 7:32 AM


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