login
"Just finish" as a goal (Page 2)
-
No new posts
|
 2009-08-13 4:55 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Master  2404   Redlands, CA |  Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goalWell, I couldn't agree more with the OP. Personally, the races I've ran where I set a 'just finish' goal I did them at about 80%. My training also lags as well. It just gives me a built in excuse to slack. However, if my day doesn't go as planned and I have to go into 'survival mode' then I will and not regret it one bit. I don't have a problem with people who just want to finish, its an endurance race and for many (including myself) just finishing is a big accomplishment. However if I don't set that time goal I find it a hard motivating factor to push myself. |
| 2009-08-13 5:05 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Pro 6767    the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I think there is a big difference between doing the distances (in any race) and doing them in race conditions. There is the excitement/adrenaline factor; the "where the h*ll is my bike" fun at T1 (I never lose my bike when I set up my own training), the pacing factors (do I try to pass this person and risk blowing up?) that never come into play in a "make your own" tri or other endeavor. For many people, "just finish" is a very realistic starting point. By reducing expectations, you reduce the stress you feel. When I was climbing more a few years ago, for example, we would go through phases of really pushing one another. If I took a week or two off, and came back just to climb in a more relaxed fashion, I often climbed better. Or it might be a person's first event, or event of that distance. The first year (of two) that I ran an adventure race with a 5 person team, ouor goal was to finish in the alloted time of 10 hours. We called our team "Sub-10". We were DFL (by quite a bit) and made our goal with an hour or two to spare. Or it might be like not announcing the pregnancy until the end of the first trimester - by not setting up expectations in others, you don't have to deal with questions that overwhelm you later if you fail to "deliver". |
| 2009-08-13 5:39 PM in reply to: #2347293 |
| 4 | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I feel like quite a few of the rebuttal posts are saying "just finish" is an admirable goal, and I don't think that was the OP's initial point. I think his initial point was that "just finish" yet also saying "I want to finish in X time." are 2 conflicting goals and the "just finish" goal is a safety net so people don't feel like a failure. I am one who always sets "just finish" as a goal but then also sets a time goal. I understand your argument, and I think for some people, it's very true. I don't believe it is for myself. I am not a great athlete. No matter how hard I work, how many months I train, it's extremely difficult for me to complete these events I enter. Because of how difficult it is for me, I consider finishing to be an acceptable goal and am always thrilled when I can finish. When I set a goal time, it's more like the icing on the cake. It's an additional something nice if I can make it (which I am 0 for 5 on, lol - I'm not very good at that). But it's really a back of my mind type goal/attitude. I always keep my mind on the first goal - finishing. I think that's the difference - I would imagine if somebody says my goal is to finish, but I'd like to do X amount of time, it really depends what their primary goal is. I'm sure all will say "Well finishing is my primary goal." But not all will really mean it - and those are the ones left with the lukewarm feeling of finishing. For me, I've been nothing short of ecstatic after completion of my running/traithlon races. |
| 2009-08-13 5:44 PM in reply to: #2347293 |
Elite 3471 Evergreen, CO | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal gearboy - 2009-08-13 4:05 PM For many people, "just finish" is a very realistic starting point. By reducing expectations, you reduce the stress you feel. I agree with this! If I'm putting pressure on myself to meet time goals I do not enjoy training and am usually disappointed in my race results. Instead if I follow a plan that will make sure I am ready for the distance, when I get to the race I know how hard I can push myself and still finish (based on RPE, not HR or pace), and my goal is to finish. That doesn't mean I'm hoping to beat the cutoff time, it means I'm going as fast as I can w/o blowing up. Since I started doing this I haven't been dissatisfied with my race results, and am usually pleasantly surprised. |
| 2009-08-13 5:53 PM in reply to: #2347132 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Socks - 2009-08-13 3:53 PM I think you all at the front of the pack have a lot to learn from those of us at the back of the pack. Like what? Please educate me. |
| 2009-08-13 5:54 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Sure I enjoy doing a PB in anything, but I try not to let that get in the way of enjoying the event. I've never been a gifted athlete & I accept that. I enjoy training for & being part of an event. Not the same just doing the distances alone. If I stay somewhere MOP I'm stoked. Finish uninjured BOP but not DFL & I'm happy too. Felt that way back when I was racing MTB, and feel the same way since I started doing tri's his year. FUN is Job 1!!!!!!! No offense McFuzz- but not sure I would have continued on in IM with a known (or strongly suspected) significant injury. "Stupidity Alert" assessment is spot on. Risk to self (and others) is damn well worth it to save a life, but in a sporting event???? |
| 2009-08-13 6:17 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Veteran 121 | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Maybe 'just finish' is shorthand for "I just put 10-months into training and want to see a return on that investment." In my mind that is not the same a validation, although I will concede we may be arguing over semantics. I have 3 IM finishes and 1 IM DNF. You can talk all you want about the journey (and I love the journey), but the journey is not what you're thinking about as you're carted off the course to the med tent. Although I set measurable goals for races and training, I think it is absurd. There are too many things that require on-the-fly adjustments. Like three flats. Or nutrition that worked in training but failed utterly in a race. Or an injury. My real goal - that secret immeasurable goal that I keep to myself - is to use the race to measure my toughness. Did I give up? Did I mentally give up? Much more interesting than meeting a time goal, although those are satisfying too. Kinda rambled there, but there were a couple of interesting views posted. |
| 2009-08-13 6:30 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Pro 4507 Simpsonville, SC | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I like this thread. It is thought provoking. My goal as listed on the BT Watching thread for my IM was to finish. I don't think I included a "just" in there. It was my first IM. I am a slow and injury-prone runner. There was no "just" about it. I felt fairly confident that I would finish between 12-14 hours because of what I was doing in training. But there is always that big "what if xxxx happens" that McFuzz had to look in the eye. We both did IMCDA. And the ambulances were busy on the bike course. I chose "finish" as my goal because if I had to look that big, scary xxx happened on the course, what do I do now monster in the eye, I know I would still try to finish. Throughout the race I knew the only way I was not going to finish was if someone came up to me and took my timing chip and prohibited me from continuing. I think the intelligence of that choice is better served in another thread. Fortunately, I encountered no huge catastrophies and I finished within my initial time frame. Had I finished out of that with no serious issues on the race course, yes, I would have been disappointed in myself that I had not done what I trained to do. But I also put that goal as "finish" to make me realize what was important to me in that race. Crossing the finishing line and completing 140.6 miles in 17 hours or less. Even if things went slower than anticipated, my "finish" goal would be achieved and I would live to fight and race another IM another day. There is a lot of hard feelings between FOP, MOP, BOP. I don't really understand this. We are all racing the race we have in us on that day and striving to do our best. Why does it matter what the people that finish in front of us or behind us think about our performances? I don't think McFuzz was thinking about this as his reason behind the thread. His point of the thread is that big, ol' "but" we use after we say we just want to finish. I think he's trying to get everyone to confess to their super secret time goals and understand that they may be in for some disappointment if they have been consoling themselves with the goal for "just finishing" yet don't perform up to their abilities come race day. If we own up to those time goals, we could increase our chances of achieving them by adjusting our training to do it. Also, we may save ourselves some disappointment by adjusting those goals to more realistic ones compared to our training paces. I don't think anyone is attacking anyone here. We all deserve the chance to achieve our triathlon dreams. Setting a goal to "finish" a race is fine. Just be sure that you're not deluding yourself with that "but" that is often attached to the finishing goal  Pam |
| 2009-08-13 6:32 PM in reply to: #2347413 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal barqhead - 2009-08-13 6:30 PM There is a lot of hard feelings between FOP, MOP, BOP. Pam There are? Please educate me. |
| 2009-08-13 6:34 PM in reply to: #2347350 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal bryancd - 2009-08-13 6:53 PM Socks - 2009-08-13 3:53 PM I think you all at the front of the pack have a lot to learn from those of us at the back of the pack. Like what? Please educate me.Well, how about racing at the peak of your ability, knowing that you are going to be on the field 2-3 times longer (or more) than the FOP crowd, but still pushing through without giving in to demoralization? Or running that last mile knowing the volunteers are in the midst of breaking down the course, so that they can go home, expecting the post race celebrations are essentially done (good luck getting so much as a half a banana), but still planning to go out and do it again at the next race? I think what Socks may have been referring to is that it is a lot easier to push yourself when you know that there is chance for glory at the end. But those of us who are BOP are pushing ourselves as hard as we can too, knowing there is no chance AT ALL of getting any hardware, knowing that we are going to be at the limits of our exertion longer than the FOP (who are also at their limits, but for significantly less time), but still being out there for the "fun" of it. Some of us are BOP because we are not gifted athletes, or we are still working on our weight issues, or we have chronic injuries that limit us, but we are all still out there, pushing ourselves, which is more than most people are doing at 7 am on a rainy Sunday morning. And to be given an impicit message that it "doesn't count" for any reason is horribly elitist. Imagine being told in school if you are not a straight "A" student that you might as well just stay at home and read the material on your own, since there is no chance you will benefit from being taught... |
| 2009-08-13 6:37 PM in reply to: #2347416 |
Pro 4507 Simpsonville, SC | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal bryancd - 2009-08-13 7:32 PM barqhead - 2009-08-13 6:30 PM There is a lot of hard feelings between FOP, MOP, BOP. Pam There are? Please educate me. From reading the responses on this thread, that is what I deduced. Forgive me if I was wrong. I ain't perfect. |
| 2009-08-13 6:42 PM in reply to: #2346921 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I've done 4 sprints and an oly...hardly IM...but it still took a lot to get from my previous level of fitness to the finish line...For me I never said my goal was to "just finish". Then again, I didn't set a time goal either. I knew, barring a crash like mcfuzz, I'd finish. I put in the work. I knew I was going to finish. For me, the satisfaction of finishing the race comes from reflecting back to the 5 or 6 days/week of training, the gains I made, and the overall benefit. I'm MOP every time and considering my crazy schedule that allows only bizarre training times (I climbed off the trainer last night at 1:10am), am pleased with competitng. I have no problem with someone who 'hopes to finish', nor do I think someones crazy for shooting for a sub 10 IM....If EVERYONE who is a couch potato just took the "just finish" approach and actually did something, the health care system would be better off.... |
| 2009-08-13 6:45 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Veteran 145 Boulder | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I would certainly say that I learn alot about the handicapped athletes who go out there and do it to prove it to themselves that they can do it, and I definitely admire it. But I also learn alot about the elite athletes who train countless hours a week, sacrificing so many things in their lives just to become a little bit faster because of their love for the sport. They might train just as hard as the top pros, but finish just off the podium, and what do they receive for this enormous achievement? Usually just a pat on the back. |
| 2009-08-13 7:04 PM in reply to: #2347418 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal gearboy - 2009-08-13 6:34 PM bryancd - 2009-08-13 6:53 PM Socks - 2009-08-13 3:53 PM I think you all at the front of the pack have a lot to learn from those of us at the back of the pack. Like what? Please educate me.Well, how about racing at the peak of your ability, knowing that you are going to be on the field 2-3 times longer (or more) than the FOP crowd, but still pushing through without giving in to demoralization? Or running that last mile knowing the volunteers are in the midst of breaking down the course, so that they can go home, expecting the post race celebrations are essentially done (good luck getting so much as a half a banana), but still planning to go out and do it again at the next race? I think what Socks may have been referring to is that it is a lot easier to push yourself when you know that there is chance for glory at the end. But those of us who are BOP are pushing ourselves as hard as we can too, knowing there is no chance AT ALL of getting any hardware, knowing that we are going to be at the limits of our exertion longer than the FOP (who are also at their limits, but for significantly less time), but still being out there for the "fun" of it. Some of us are BOP because we are not gifted athletes, or we are still working on our weight issues, or we have chronic injuries that limit us, but we are all still out there, pushing ourselves, which is more than most people are doing at 7 am on a rainy Sunday morning. And to be given an impicit message that it "doesn't count" for any reason is horribly elitist. Imagine being told in school if you are not a straight "A" student that you might as well just stay at home and read the material on your own, since there is no chance you will benefit from being taught... I can assure you it's never easy to push yourself, regardless of the outcome. And as the outcome is what we hope it will be, it's very personal and subjective. I agree 100% and have said so on many occasions. I feel it's harder to do a race like IM when you are out there for 14,15,16 hours than to finish sub 11 let's say. Not because the aid stations are gone or that no spectators are left, because I assume all the athletes I see finishing the bike and starting the run while I am finished, packed up my gear, and am walking to the car, are going into this run with all the pain, fear, and uncertainty that makes IM magical. And yet they run, or try to run, to do whatever it takes to get to that finish line before 11:59:50pm. I have so much respect and appreciation for what they are doing. For me to go 9:40 is hard, but it's over quickly. For someone else out there for 16+ hours, it's a whole different ballgame. And they are out there not because they didn't train or prepare (at least I hope) but because they are giving the BEST they can for who they are. THAT IS IRONMAN. So you see, I am a way at the front FOP'er and I have all the respect and appreciation for everyone behind me. I read these post about how FOP'ers don't respect the BOP'ers or there is tension and I say where? Not at the front of my pack.  |
| 2009-08-13 7:08 PM in reply to: #2347350 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal bryancd - 2009-08-13 6:53 PM Socks - 2009-08-13 3:53 PM I think you all at the front of the pack have a lot to learn from those of us at the back of the pack. Like what? Please educate me.1-Humility I really feel that amoung some of the fast talented athletes on this site there is an arrogance and superioirty that is really uncalled for and quite frankly its mean. AWESOME you KQ you are fast you won your age group good for you. Why do some people have to make other people feel like crap about their own triathlon experience to feel good about yours? Why the constant posts about you have no business doing a ____ if you can;t do it in ____ time. and the you should only have ___ time to do it blah blah blah Be a positive force in triathlon not a negative one. Would you rather be the guy who KQ or the guy who saved someones life on the side of the bike course or the guy who inspired a friend or nieghbor to get off the couch and loose wieght and LIVE? Wouldn't it be great if you could be both? Everyone in this sport fast or slow has the opportunity to be an inspiration to someone. |
| 2009-08-13 7:10 PM in reply to: #2347474 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Socks - 2009-08-13 7:08 PM bryancd - 2009-08-13 6:53 PM Socks - 2009-08-13 3:53 PM I think you all at the front of the pack have a lot to learn from those of us at the back of the pack. Like what? Please educate me.1-Humility I really feel that amoung some of the fast talented athletes on this site there is an arrogance and superioirty that is really uncalled for and quite frankly its mean. AWESOME you KQ you are fast you won your age group good for you. Why do some people have to make other people feel like crap about their own triathlon experience to feel good about yours? Why the constant posts about you have no business doing a ____ if you can;t do it in ____ time. and the you should only have ___ time to do it blah blah blah Be a positive force in triathlon not a negative one. Would you rather be the guy who KQ or the guy who saved someones life on the side of the bike course or the guy who inspired a friend or nieghbor to get off the couch and loose wieght and LIVE? Wouldn't it be great if you could be both? Everyone in this sport fast or slow has the opportunity to be an inspiration to someone. Did you even read my post above? Clearly not. |
| 2009-08-13 7:16 PM in reply to: #2347474 |
| Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Why the constant posts about you have no business doing a ____ if you can;t do it in ____ time. and the you should only have ___ time to do it blah blah blah To be fair, I don't recall any of our regular FOPers making such statements, and the people that have get smacked down pretty quickly by BT. I don't know you can fairly call such posts "constant". I think there is also a heightened sensitivity by us MOPer and BOPers whenever anyone says something that might be gleaned as "you are not going fast enough." Often times that might get translated internally into something else. I get McFuzz's point. Every time you push yourself beyond preconceived limits, you learn something about yourself (not the least of which is you can go faster or longer than you thought). Your own sig line (which is great) says it as well: "She who does not attempt the absurd cannot acheive the impossible." I don't necessarly agree that just finishing and having a goal time are inconsistent, but it is what it is. Each person has to evaluate what is important to them about racing. |
| 2009-08-13 7:17 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Socks, aren't you the same person who bad mouthed Rick, Daremo, after Eagleman in Bob stocks blog? That you were glad he had a bad day? I believe that was you. Funny that considering how much he cherish respect. Wait, here are your words: "Awesome job out there sooper fast bob And way to kick Ricks ..I can't stand that guy. He talks so much smack and never races well. What a jerk. " Nice respect for a fellow athlete. Edited by bryancd 2009-08-13 7:35 PM |
 2009-08-13 7:49 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by PennState 2009-08-13 7:49 PM |
| 2009-08-13 8:35 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
| Master 1440 | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal I went from couch to starting line in about 6 weeks. I had done one brick and a bench mark of about 100 minutes. I have competed in Archery tournaments and Martial arts tournaments, but never in a single endurance competiton. Just finishing was my goal and more so because I had gotten a infection in my foot (Not training related) I was pretty sure that I was physically capable, or mentally capable, but putting the two of them together for one event, not so much. I knew that I would love to have finished in under the 100 minutes, but just finishing was my ultimate goal. |
| 2009-08-13 8:45 PM in reply to: #2347513 |
| Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal PennState - 2009-08-13 7:49 PM I honestly don't know if I'm a FOPer or a fast MOPer. In my heart I think I'm OK at triathlons, but I know so many guys faster than me (Like Bryan and Jorge) so I never believe the hype when I race 'faster' But believe me from my perspective I respect those who give it their 110% best. If that 110% best is 9:30 (you are bold Jorge ) or 16:59:59 I have the same level of respect.I don't respect people who don't try their best. Sometimes our best is not as fast as we want... but we know it's our best in our heart. We have limiters like: 1. God-given talent. 2. Injuries. 3. Life situation. 4. The day they are having. But taking that into account, we have ranges of how well we can push and what paces we can achieve. One of my BT friends who is racing IMC is not super fast, but I read her RR a few months ago where she pushed through pain and exhaustion... that's what does it for me... nothing more, nothing less. People like her have my utmost respect and admiration.
Dang Fred, that's kind of harsh don't you think? If someone doesn't go all-in and train to the virtual limits of their time and ability, it might simply mean they are doing it for FUN! Not for competition. Not to prove anything to themselves or anybody...simply to have fun and participate. Maybe they simply love to run, swim and bike. Could I have done better than 14:30 on my last IM? You better believe it...but I'd of had to train harder and smarter....probably hire a coach or, at a minimum, use some sort of training plan. There are a few things where I always try my best...parenting for example. Triathlons? Not so much. It's just something I do for the fun of participation. ~Mike |
| 2009-08-13 8:58 PM in reply to: #2347608 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal Rogillio - 2009-08-13 8:45 PM PennState - 2009-08-13 7:49 PM I honestly don't know if I'm a FOPer or a fast MOPer. In my heart I think I'm OK at triathlons, but I know so many guys faster than me (Like Bryan and Jorge) so I never believe the hype when I race 'faster' But believe me from my perspective I respect those who give it their 110% best. If that 110% best is 9:30 (you are bold Jorge ) or 16:59:59 I have the same level of respect.I don't respect people who don't try their best. Sometimes our best is not as fast as we want... but we know it's our best in our heart. We have limiters like: 1. God-given talent. 2. Injuries. 3. Life situation. 4. The day they are having. But taking that into account, we have ranges of how well we can push and what paces we can achieve. One of my BT friends who is racing IMC is not super fast, but I read her RR a few months ago where she pushed through pain and exhaustion... that's what does it for me... nothing more, nothing less. People like her have my utmost respect and admiration.
Dang Fred, that's kind of harsh don't you think? If someone doesn't go all-in and train to the virtual limits of their time and ability, it might simply mean they are doing it for FUN! Not for competition. Not to prove anything to themselves or anybody...simply to have fun and participate. Maybe they simply love to run, swim and bike. Could I have done better than 14:30 on my last IM? You better believe it...but I'd of had to train harder and smarter....probably hire a coach or, at a minimum, use some sort of training plan. There are a few things where I always try my best...parenting for example. Triathlons? Not so much. It's just something I do for the fun of participation. ~Mike I'm with, Rogillio. I do have a goal, but if I don't hit that goal in 30 days at IM Moo, I'll be glad to know: if I improve my time from 2 years ago (hopefully), that I can face my swim fear of another OWS with hordes of people thrashing around (again), that I get to meet so many fellow Donkeys and BT'ers, and that I'll finally make my family happy that I will semi-retire from doing all of this so as to spend more time with them. I have nothing to prove but only to myself what I can do and be proud of it when completed. |
| 2009-08-13 9:12 PM in reply to: #2347630 |
| Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: "Just finish" as a goal 1stTimeTri - 2009-08-13 8:58 PM I do have a goal, but if I don't hit that goal in 30 days at IM Moo, I'll be glad to know: if I improve my time from 2 years ago (hopefully), that I can face my swim fear of another OWS with hordes of people thrashing around (again), that I get to meet so many fellow Donkeys and BT'ers, and that I'll finally make my family happy that I will semi-retire from doing all of this so as to spend more time with them. I have nothing to prove but only to myself what I can do and be proud of it when completed. Sounds to me like you do agree with Fred. Sounds to me like you are trying your best. Edited by bryancd 2009-08-13 9:13 PM |
| 2009-08-13 9:15 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-08-13 9:21 PM in reply to: #2346740 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
|
|
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK