Can you teach competitiveness.?

Champion

11989

Philly 'burbs

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

gearboy - 2009-09-01 10:01 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 9:45 PM

gearboy - 2009-09-01 5:24 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 11:41 AM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 11:12 AM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 9:13 AM

wgraves7582 - 2009-09-01 8:37 AM

Well as I told my softball teammates this year when they start paying me to play a game then I will go from participation to competition.

What does that mean exactly? It's a team sport, and the object is to score more runs than the other team, how do you participate rather than compete?

Is this a serious question? You honestly don't know how to participate without being competitive?

Very serious. I don't know how to participate in a team sport that has a clear objective without being competitive. I don't know how to participate in anything where the object is to get a better score or faster time without being competitive.

There is a finish line for a reason. There is a score board for a reason. I can (and do) participate in activities without being competitive, but if there is going to be a winner you can damn sure bet I'm gonna do my best to be that winner. And by winner I mean actual winner, as in first, or most points, or fewest strokes, etc. Not that "everyone is a winner for trying" crap. Everyone may have achieved a personal goal, or had some success, but only one team or one individual is THE winner.
I also believe in sportsmanship and winning or losing with class and dignity. I will crash into the fence going after a foul ball in a pick up softball game. I will encourage my teammates to hustle and do their best. I do not like to lose, but I will not pout, scream, or throw stuff if I do.

My stock response the those "It's just a game" or "just play for fun" statements is; Losing is not fun.

I'm gonna go on a metaphysical tangent here.....

If score is kept then I presume the object is to win. It is a disservice to oneself, the others involved, to the activity itself, to the very universe if one does not do one's best to win.

Except I bet you are not 100% true to this sentiment. If you were, you would DNF a lot of races, once it was clear you are not going to be "the winner". Your race log show you finish strong, but nowheres near being a contender (not that I am - I am very much a BOP racer). So the finish line is there, but not so you can out-compete the other racers, but so you know when to stop.

I'm not disparaging the idea of competing against yourself (can I get a better time than last year/last race/training?) - it's pretty much what I do. But you are saying very clearly here that your goal is to be the overall winner. Once you know that won't happen, you should stop running. The only thing that you are doing at that point is putting yourself at risk of an injury, which would sideline you from competing later. Stop running, and start to plan the training for the next race, if your only goal is to "the actual winner".

I understand your point, but don't see how you get from A to B. I didn't say it was win or nothing for me. I do my best. Period. Some games I can win, some I can't. I am not a win at all cost guy or clearly I would not race. But you'd better believe I see how close (or far) I came from the winner, or my AG, or people from my same town, or people I know. I usually finish in the top 20% - 30% overall so I beat more people than beat me so I take some solace in that.

Here's my A to B path: You say your goal is to win. And that anything less is a "disservice to the very universe". So once you know you will not win, by this reasoning, you MUST stop. Because you either intend to (a) try to compete at a later event (hence my comment about stop now to prevent injury and instead focus on training harder for the next event), (b) never to try again because you will always be outraced, and therefore you should stop so you don't dishonor the sport itself.

But I believe the other parts of your original post (that I did not hightlight) are probably closer to your real beliefs - sportsmanship and being a class act. And I suspect that if we were in the same race, after you beat me (which would absolutely happen, since I am NOT in the top 20-30%), we could still talk about the race and have a good time.

Read it again GB; the disservice is not in not winning, it is in not doing your best to win. I do my best.

I think to quit because I know I won't win would dishonor the sport.

Again, I see your point but still question your logic in reaching it. And disagree with it. But what the hey, right? Neither of us will "win" this debate

My Race Log

Master

1404

Eagle Mountain, Utah

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 7:36 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 5:05 PM

it does baffle me to hear that people honestly don't know how to just have fun at something where a score is kept, and not compete.

You seem to be equating competing with not having fun. Competing to win IS fun.

x2. Whats wrong with being competitive? I think it is fun and so do others. Weather it is with beating your PR, beating someone else, or whatever it is that motivates you whats wrong with being competitive and not having to defend yourself for being that way?

My Race Log

Alpharetta, Georgia

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 10:28 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 7:36 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 5:05 PM

it does baffle me to hear that people honestly don't know how to just have fun at something where a score is kept, and not compete.

You seem to be equating competing with not having fun. Competing to win IS fun.

x2. Whats wrong with being competitive? I think it is fun and so do others. Weather it is with beating your PR, beating someone else, or whatever it is that motivates you whats wrong with being competitive and not having to defend yourself for being that way?

I never said there was anything WRONG with being competitive.
But there is also nothing WRONG with not wanting to be competitive.

I believe it can go both ways, is my point.

My Race Log

Master

1404

Eagle Mountain, Utah

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 9:45 PM

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 10:28 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 7:36 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 5:05 PM

it does baffle me to hear that people honestly don't know how to just have fun at something where a score is kept, and not compete.

You seem to be equating competing with not having fun. Competing to win IS fun.

x2. Whats wrong with being competitive? I think it is fun and so do others. Weather it is with beating your PR, beating someone else, or whatever it is that motivates you whats wrong with being competitive and not having to defend yourself for being that way?

I never said there was anything WRONG with being competitive.
But there is also nothing WRONG with not wanting to be competitive.

I believe it can go both ways, is my point.

Your posts in this thread and other threads seem to always be about having fun, and there is nothing wrong with that, and I am not trying to be confrontational , but I am getting the idea that if someone says they want to compete/be competitive they have to defend their choice. I see posts where people will ask about times, or the competition, etc. and they are being told to just have fun, do not take your watch, whatever, and you look at their logs and it is obvious they can do well. For some, like me, that is the wrong answer. There are a lot of people on this site that want to improve times, get faster, etc. and being competitive is a trait that one would want to posses in order to meet those goals. Maybe I am getting defensive about competitiveness just as others who want to be a recreational triathlete get defensive. But it bugs me to go to a site that advocates improvement in SBR and your somehow seen in a different light when all you want to do is your best. Hope I explained my views in a decent manner!

My Race Log

Alpharetta, Georgia

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 11:34 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 9:45 PM

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 10:28 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 7:36 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 5:05 PM

it does baffle me to hear that people honestly don't know how to just have fun at something where a score is kept, and not compete.

You seem to be equating competing with not having fun. Competing to win IS fun.

x2. Whats wrong with being competitive? I think it is fun and so do others. Weather it is with beating your PR, beating someone else, or whatever it is that motivates you whats wrong with being competitive and not having to defend yourself for being that way?

I never said there was anything WRONG with being competitive.
But there is also nothing WRONG with not wanting to be competitive.

I believe it can go both ways, is my point.

Your posts in this thread and other threads seem to always be about having fun, and there is nothing wrong with that, and I am not trying to be confrontational , but I am getting the idea that if someone says they want to compete/be competitive they have to defend their choice. I see posts where people will ask about times, or the competition, etc. and they are being told to just have fun, do not take your watch, whatever, and you look at their logs and it is obvious they can do well. For some, like me, that is the wrong answer. There are a lot of people on this site that want to improve times, get faster, etc. and being competitive is a trait that one would want to posses in order to meet those goals. Maybe I am getting defensive about competitiveness just as others who want to be a recreational triathlete get defensive. But it bugs me to go to a site that advocates improvement in SBR and your somehow seen in a different light when all you want to do is your best. Hope I explained my views in a decent manner!

I think you and I are saying the same thing.
It's ok to be competitive. It's also ok to just have fun.
Either way!

I just get upeset (or defeinsive I guess) when someone tells everyone you HAVE to be competitive in this sport (or in anything in life) and if you aren't working to beat everyone else you're doing it wrong. There IS no right or wrong. People have different goals in life. And that's ok.

My Race Log

Master

1404

Eagle Mountain, Utah

Subject: RE: Can you teach competitiveness.?

lisac957 - 2009-09-02 8:48 AM

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 11:34 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 9:45 PM

gerald12 - 2009-09-01 10:28 PM

mrbbrad - 2009-09-01 7:36 PM

lisac957 - 2009-09-01 5:05 PM

it does baffle me to hear that people honestly don't know how to just have fun at something where a score is kept, and not compete.

You seem to be equating competing with not having fun. Competing to win IS fun.

x2. Whats wrong with being competitive? I think it is fun and so do others. Weather it is with beating your PR, beating someone else, or whatever it is that motivates you whats wrong with being competitive and not having to defend yourself for being that way?

I never said there was anything WRONG with being competitive.
But there is also nothing WRONG with not wanting to be competitive.

I believe it can go both ways, is my point.

Your posts in this thread and other threads seem to always be about having fun, and there is nothing wrong with that, and I am not trying to be confrontational , but I am getting the idea that if someone says they want to compete/be competitive they have to defend their choice. I see posts where people will ask about times, or the competition, etc. and they are being told to just have fun, do not take your watch, whatever, and you look at their logs and it is obvious they can do well. For some, like me, that is the wrong answer. There are a lot of people on this site that want to improve times, get faster, etc. and being competitive is a trait that one would want to posses in order to meet those goals. Maybe I am getting defensive about competitiveness just as others who want to be a recreational triathlete get defensive. But it bugs me to go to a site that advocates improvement in SBR and your somehow seen in a different light when all you want to do is your best. Hope I explained my views in a decent manner!

I think you and I are saying the same thing.
It's ok to be competitive. It's also ok to just have fun.
Either way!

I just get upeset (or defeinsive I guess) when someone tells everyone you HAVE to be competitive in this sport (or in anything in life) and if you aren't working to beat everyone else you're doing it wrong. There IS no right or wrong. People have different goals in life. And that's ok.

My Race Log

Can you teach competitiveness.? (Page 4)

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