Fatherlessness and Crime (Page 2)

ride_like_u_stole_it - 2009-11-23 3:23 PM

Except maybe "Git back in that kitchen and fix me a sammich, ."

ride_like_u_stole_it - 2009-11-23 2:23 PM

Except maybe "Git back in that kitchen and fix me a sammich, ."

Gaarryy - 2009-11-23 3:36 PM I wish I could find the link, but I'm not having any luck.   It was about animals in captivity both zoos and those more open safai type places.  

It describes the problems some of the places had when they only had younger males,  and how just by placing/inserting an older male the problems just went away.   The one example with the elephant herds was quite informitive.


This issue , IMHO, goes back to where many of the conversations on here end.  What is good (or moral). who decides it. and where/when is it learned.

tetchypoo - 2009-11-23 3:38 PM Oh lordy, this thread is scary. I grew up without a father in the household and I was assuming that I was going to go on with a normal life, but this thread has got me thinking otherwise.

I wonder what my life would be like if I were a criminal...

On a completely unrelated note, anyone want to come stay at my house for IMMoo? You can totally leave all of your gear with me. It'll be safe. Promise.

gearboy - 2009-11-23 2:44 PM


What do you mean "IF"???

gearboy - 2009-11-23 2:40 PM

I had heard about the issue with essentially abandoned adolescent male elephants.  Poaching had reduced the numbers of adults, leaving a situation much like our inner cities.  Here is a short article (the stories may be apocryphal) about it.


ETA - here is a link to a NYT briefing about it.

eabeam - 2009-11-23 4:12 PM I am still thinking about that link to that family values political website.

One one hand, this group wants to to make family values a matter of public policy, but aren't these the same people that thinks the government cannot get more tangible things like commerce, economics, and public health correct?

It seems that the libertarian ideals and/or the states-rights-view that a lot of original conservatives believed in has become a matter of cherry-picking based on whether the government agrees with "my" position.


For the record, I am a moderate with a libertarian streak, I think both sides are full of crap.

gearboy - 2009-11-23 3:16 PM

I read somewhere once that those on the right want to the government to regulate "private" behavior (like outlawing abortion or gay marriage), while the left want the government to regulate "public" behavior (like healthcare).  So I guess it's really a matter of which heaping pile of poo you prefer to see government hanging out in.

dontracy - 2009-11-23 12:45 PM

I see that a major popcorn thread has been pulled.  I wrote this before it was pulled. If you'll indulge me, I'll just send my post to the thread out again.  Maybe we can talk about the same issue from a different angle.

 

I was held up at gun point here in Philly roughly three years ago today.  Two kids, two 9mm pistols.

It was in a nice neighborhood.

Time slowed down during the event, much as it does in a car or a bike accident.  In the midst of that slowed down experience of time, my calculations was that these two young men were fatherless.  With that information I then dealt with them as a father would, reassuringly but with boundaries so that they would not act out of more fear than they already had.  I think it saved my life.

So my take on crime is that much of it has to do with fatherlessness.  The reasons for fatherlessness in our culture is multifaceted. I have some opinions on it.  Politics is just one factor, and I believe a minor one at that.  I think politics flows from the core issues causing fatherlessness.  A symptom rather than the disease.

What do you think?

trishie - 2009-11-23 3:52 PM I find the amount of racism in this thread disturbing, but I'll let that go for now.

First, don, I am so sorry that happened to you. That's terrifying, and I'm impressed you were able to deal with them and come out safely. ((()))

Like our resident social worker said, children need to be loved and protected and taught. In my opinion, this love can come from one mother, one father, several parents - the case of steparents, two mothers, two fathers, an aunt, a grandmother, a grandfather, etc. The problem is that many mothers in poor urban areas are single mothers who work multiple jobs to pay rent and put food on the table. They simply do not have the hours in the day to be a PTA mom and attend sports games. In addition, many of them are CHILDREN (14, 16 years old) THEMSELVES! They aren't able to parent because they aren't mature enough to do so.

I think there is a big difference between a single mother living in poverty and a single mother NOT living in poverty (well, duh, groundbreaking stuff I know). My neighbor - single - adopted a little boy and provides him with a wonderful life.

I live in Baltimore City and it breaks my heart to see 14 and 15 year old girls, heavily pregnant, pushing a stoller down the street. Why are these girls getting pregnant? What can we do to stop it? <----- these are the biggies, IMO.

I had sex as a teenager, and I used every type of precaution available (pill, condoms, etc). I knew that if I got pregnant it would interfere with my life --- with college, studying abroad, graduate school, etc. I had things to look forward to and if I got pregnant at 16 I would have very dissapointed parents. A lot of the teens in the city don't have a bright future. They've had subpar schooling, uninvovled parents, and college normally is not an option. They do what they've seen: unprotected sex, pregnant, repeat. It's what their moms did as teenagers and likely it's what their children will do as well. It's a cycle and it's a very sad one.

1stTimeTri - 2009-11-23 4:54 PM

Maybe some self-realization and self-consciousness and not succumbing to peer pressure, too?

ride_like_u_stole_it - 2009-11-23 2:23 PM

Except maybe "Git back in that kitchen and fix me a sammich, ."

eabeam - 2009-11-23 4:09 PM I can agree with the above posts, to a point.

The bottom line is that children who are the product of two -parent nuclear families do have better outcomes than single parent families. (This is where I disagree with Aidana.)

Both groups have FAR better outcomes than children with only dysfunctional parent or in the foster system.
(This is where I agree with Aidana.)

(I have run into 2 true socio-paths working in Day Treatment (This is a LOT! A have a co-worker near retirement that has only seen one.), both were in the foster kids since infancy. One never lasted more than 6 weeks in a placement - with the exception of 6 month stints in jail.

However, it goes back to my original point (and on of my stand-by points).

#1 - This is overall data. Probability is just that, probability. There is a lot of real estate between "average" or "probable" and "possible".

#2 - What are the factors leading to the father not being around, and how big of a variable is that?  What percentage of the correlation is symptom versus cause? Afterall, the dynamic of a parent living away from home to pay bills than, in the words of one of my 16-year-old-girls, "why did he not love me as much as the street thug lifestyle that got him sent to jail?"  In many meth cases, the kid is playing a more parental role in taking care of the junkie "parent."

gearboy - 2009-11-23 3:16 PM

I read somewhere once that those on the right want to the government to regulate "private" behavior (like outlawing abortion or gay marriage), while the left want the government to regulate "public" behavior (like healthcare).  So I guess it's really a matter of which heaping pile of poo you prefer to see government hanging out in.

aidana - 2009-11-23 2:19 PM

I work with trial cases that terminate parental rights and I see alot of this.......usually the "extreme" cases are those children suffering from RAD (reactive attachment disorder) Those children who were never able to bond with a parent in the younger years. Studies show that children who have never bonded or attached are less likely to understand the attachment between human beings in general let alone the rules of society on what is right or wrong.

gearboy - 2009-11-23 2:29 PM

Depends on how you read that.  I don't want my daughters to believe they need to have a man in their lives to support them, or make decisions for them.  If they so choose, I want them to be as capable of being self sufficient as any other person.

BUT....

"A child needs a father like a fish needs a rock".  OK, not a very good expression, and clearly needing work.  But fish need rocks to provide protection from danger, to rest, and to be generally safe. It might survive in the water without rocks, but not thrive.  And a kid needs two parents.  Dads are not really optional.  In fact, there are studies showing that girls raised in a home without a male enter puberty earlier (I think it was like 6-12 months).  And of course, seeing how parents negotiate differences is an important overall life lesson.  Not to mention having a role model of both genders.

eabeam - 2009-11-23 6:23 PM
The African-American community has to address the fact that their boys ARE growing up without fathers or positive male role models at a higher rate than the rest of the U.S.

This is also true of the Latino community here in CA.