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2009-12-25 9:39 PM

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Elite
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Subject: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Plain clothes cop in D.C. gets out of his Hummer and draws his gun in a snowball fight last week.  Wow. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAgQKJuriIo

News story:   
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2...


2009-12-25 9:57 PM
in reply to: #2577857

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Master
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Ok ... I didn't watch the entire video ... but my thoughts:

As ex-law-enforcement ... people in balaclavas throwing snowballs at me when I'm alone at my point - may as well as be throwing bombs at me. They were clearly anti-police, and clearly not willing to play nicely. It's no wonder that cop got his back up. I'd defend him - but I'm of the brotherhood.

That said - in the end if it comes out he did wrong - I will not stand with him. However in the heat of the moment ... you listen to the cops and calm the phuc down - stop doing what you're doing - and obey ... or ... trouble.

My $..02
2009-12-26 12:04 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
That is absolutely insane. There is no defense for that cop. He was clearly just pissed off that someone hit his car with a snowball and then tried waving around his authority to feel less ridiculous for acting inappropriately.
2009-12-26 12:21 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Wow, that was too painful to watch on all accounts...both from the POV of law enforcment...a huge mob of people gathered and chanting at you (30 on 1? yeah, that's intimitdating even with a gun). But also from POV of an "onlooker"... WTF would you deliberately initimidate someone walking around with a gun out? Hitting him in the face with a snowball? Seems like at that point, it would be some sort of assault. I don't blame the cop for calling in backkup at that point. But the beginning of the whole incident wasn't well captured, so it's hard to pass judgement on exactly what started it all.
2009-12-26 7:28 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Master
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
By listening to the video it sounds like people were throwing snowballs at passing vehicles and  oops that one was an off duty cop.  I think the cop appeared to be out of line, at least at first, by having his gun drawn.  That said, overall, I don't think he was out of line.  These IDIOTS with absolutely no respect for any of the cops could be taken to jail just because.......
If someone has the gall to disobey a cop let them cool off with Bubba in the cell with them for a night or so.  I think this displays the common disrespect for almost all authority.
To me it seems real interesting that at least some of these people would be glad to lodge a complaint against someone for damaging their car but they appear to completely fine throwing snow balls at other cars.  Again, no respect for others property.

2009-12-26 9:06 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
The article said therre were over 100 people out there.  Snow like that is pretty uncommon in that area, and drivers there are terrible with any precipitation to start with.  It seemed there were quite a few cars on the road, considering. So here's what I saw there - a large unruly mob of people, lobbing missles at cars that were driving in hazardous conditions.  It wouldn't take too many hits on a windshield to either obstruct a driver's vision, or startle him/her and cause the driver to swerve, in what were clearly bad road conditions.  So they are creating hazardous conditions.  Given the very belligerent attitude of the crowd to the cop (the profanity and the yelling out "pig"); most of the time I did not see a gun in the officer's hand, but a walkie-talkie to communicate to the other cops.  While he was obviously agitated, he appeared to me to be more in "cop mode", trying to control and contain the people.

In addition, the people must not have really felt "at risk", since none of them left the area, or stopped antagonizing the cop.  If I truly believed I was about to get shot, I WOULD LEAVE THE AREA!!!!  I certainly wouldn't hang around, cursing and shouting at the supposed gunman.  And if I was driving around there at the time, I might have pulled over and called the cops on them myself, since this was not just a couple of kids on a back road or field having a snow ball fight.

The article also said they were targeting Hummers.  For all they knew, the drivers were ferrying people to hospitals (as patients or staff) or getting food or meds to people, or just checking in for the local agency on aging on the various shut in elderly.  When we had a big blizzard here around 10-15 years ago, that is exactly what all the local Hummer drivers were doing. And I know of a couple of surgeons who own tank-like SUV's in order to be able to get to the hospitals in any conditions. 


2009-12-26 9:17 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Bad cop... no donuts!
2009-12-26 9:32 AM
in reply to: #2577857

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Master
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Norfolk, Va
Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
so many questions about this...

I have never thrown a snowball at anyone i didn't know(cop or no cop).. just asking for trouble IMO.
2009-12-26 10:01 AM
in reply to: #2577857

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight

I agree with the following:

" Candidcommonsense (2 hours ago)
This is lame.? The entire situation. Adults throwing snowballs at vehicle. A cop pulling a gun for snowballs. Whiny camera holders. It's all so lame.
"
Crowd mentality of throwing snowballs at moving vehicles - just stupid, especially during those conditions.
Someone picked the wrong vehicle to mess with.
Now, the officer was a little over-reactive.
The issue I have is the whiny-azz little twerp starting the chant and the tuff people throwing out the F-bombs to get their angered point across, yet don't take ANY responsibility for their OWN actions.
This was all screwed up from the beginning.
2009-12-26 12:38 PM
in reply to: #2577857

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Welcome to the dc police system! Absolute chaos. And those morons that continued? Privileged dc kids. Or should i say entitled. Idiocy on both sides.
2009-12-26 12:54 PM
in reply to: #2577857

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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
There is a mob in the streets, throwing snowballs at cars, I'd be calling for back-up to. If you throw a rock at a car it can be considered assault, why is a snowball different? Had he been moving, had his view blocked and then ran them over, then what? Would they still be yelling at the officer?

Both sides are wrong, but natural selection may take its course if people are dumb enough to throw something that can block the view of a driver.


2009-12-26 1:20 PM
in reply to: #2577857

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
So was it really a gun or was it a tazer/taser? Anyone know?

As far as the hummers shuttling personel...I was on duty at 6AM in our ER about a week ago when a huge ice storm hit the pittsburgh and surrouding area. Our 7 and 8 AM staff were unable to get in until about 11AM, meanwhile, our 911 center was overwhelmed, unable to physically answer all the calls, our EMS crews were behind on runs by 20+ for car accidents, falls, and the routine stuff, and all the while...it was just me as the sole doc in an urban ER trying to keep up with the madness. It was close to a disaster scenario for a few hours and had the people that arrived been anything but "slip and falls", it would have really been a big mess as far as patient safety.

So yeah, I agree that respecting the reasons why hummers might be driving in all conditions and giving them the benefit of the doubt is paramount.

2009-12-26 3:47 PM
in reply to: #2577864

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
SpiritFire - 2009-12-25 9:57 PM Ok ... I didn't watch the entire video ... but my thoughts: As ex-law-enforcement ... people in balaclavas throwing snowballs at me when I'm alone at my point - may as well as be throwing bombs at me. They were clearly anti-police, and clearly not willing to play nicely. It's no wonder that cop got his back up. I'd defend him - but I'm of the brotherhood. That said - in the end if it comes out he did wrong - I will not stand with him. However in the heat of the moment ... you listen to the cops and calm the phuc down - stop doing what you're doing - and obey ... or ... trouble. My $..02



Watch the entire clip and I suspect you would not support the police officer.  He is off duty, driving a Hummer.  Gets out and pulls a gun without showing a badge.  The on duty uniformed officers showed up in response to a man with a gun 911 call. 

I'm generally pro cop.  But this guy displayed a gross lack of judgment even if the crowd was being rude and throwing snowballs at cars.  If he had gotten out of the car, showed his badge and advised the crowd not to throw snowballs at cars, that would have been fine.  Better yet, place a call to have an on duty uniformed officer come take care of the situation.  But get out of a car that most people would not expect a police officer to be in and pull out a gun before showing a badge?  That is outrageous.
2009-12-26 3:51 PM
in reply to: #2577921

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
AdventureBear - 2009-12-26 12:21 AM  WTF would you deliberately initimidate someone walking around with a gun out? Hitting him in the face with a snowball? Seems like at that point, it would be some sort of assault. I don't blame the cop for calling in backkup at that point. But the beginning of the whole incident wasn't well captured, so it's hard to pass judgement on exactly what started it all.


Agreed that whoever hit the guy with a gun in the face with a snowball was out of line. 

The off duty detective didn't cal backup from what I read in the news stories--he simply pulled a gun.

From what the news stories say, the crowd had targeted Hummers in particular.  Sounds like his car got whammied and he was pissed.  Bet if he didn't have a gun he would have just drove out of there.  Clearly it would have been a more appropriate course of action.
2009-12-26 5:18 PM
in reply to: #2578292

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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
PeterAK - 2009-12-26 4:51 PM
AdventureBear - 2009-12-26 12:21 AM  WTF would you deliberately initimidate someone walking around with a gun out? Hitting him in the face with a snowball? Seems like at that point, it would be some sort of assault. I don't blame the cop for calling in backkup at that point. But the beginning of the whole incident wasn't well captured, so it's hard to pass judgement on exactly what started it all.


Agreed that whoever hit the guy with a gun in the face with a snowball was out of line. 

The off duty detective didn't cal backup from what I read in the news stories--he simply pulled a gun.

From what the news stories say, the crowd had targeted Hummers in particular.  Sounds like his car got whammied and he was pissed.  Bet if he didn't have a gun he would have just drove out of there.  Clearly it would have been a more appropriate course of action.


The article you linked to was not very good- the reporter stated the officer's name was not released (which may have been true, but he DOES identify himself on the video clip). The reporter also used sources of eyewitnesses, who gave contradictory reports to him (some said he pulled the gun, some didn't). On the clip, I did not see a gun (but I did see the walkie talkie calling for back up), but I heard the crowd stating he had a gun.  Also, the crowd was clearly anti-cop (I didn't think people still used the term"pig" anymore.  I guess I missed the part of the clip where they talk about how groovy it was to have a snowball fight). The police had also (according to the newspaper) asked the crowd to disperse earlier, and they did not.  So even if he DID identify himself (and the jury is still out on that one), I don't think it would have changed the mob's behavior.

Having watched the clip and read the article, I am still not seeing the crowd in a more positive light.
2009-12-26 5:37 PM
in reply to: #2578292

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight

PeterAK - 2009-12-26 3:51 PM
AdventureBear - 2009-12-26 12:21 AM  WTF would you deliberately initimidate someone walking around with a gun out? Hitting him in the face with a snowball? Seems like at that point, it would be some sort of assault. I don't blame the cop for calling in backkup at that point. But the beginning of the whole incident wasn't well captured, so it's hard to pass judgement on exactly what started it all.


Agreed that whoever hit the guy with a gun in the face with a snowball was out of line. 

The off duty detective didn't cal backup from what I read in the news stories--he simply pulled a gun.

From what the news stories say, the crowd had targeted Hummers in particular.  Sounds like his car got whammied and he was pissed.  Bet if he didn't have a gun he would have just drove out of there.  Clearly it would have been a more appropriate course of action.

Clearly, the idiots should not have been throwing snowballs at vehicles.  A more appropriate course of action would not have been doing that.  I don't support the off-duty officer's action to begin with, but let's blame the morons who started the whole thing.  If they wanted to throw snowballs, they should have taken it somewhere else instead of a populated and well-traveled area.  Makes sense to me.



2009-12-26 7:20 PM
in reply to: #2577857

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
Watch the video again Gearboy, you can see the gun in his hand pointed at the ground.
2009-12-26 7:28 PM
in reply to: #2578366

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cop Pulls a Gun At a Snowball Fight
1stTimeTri - 2009-12-26 5:37 PM

Clearly, the idiots should not have been throwing snowballs at vehicles.  A more appropriate course of action would not have been doing that.  I don't support the off-duty officer's action to begin with, but let's blame the morons who started the whole thing.  If they wanted to throw snowballs, they should have taken it somewhere else instead of a populated and well-traveled area.  Makes sense to me.



It's just a snowball fight Fill!  Sounds like fun to me, but like you, I would not be throwing snowballs at cars or people who weren't also playing along.  So, yes, the people pelting cars were being naughty.  But the point is that pulling a gun in response to a snowball fight is outrageous.  I think he should be fired for a bunch of reasons.

Just imagine how his testimony is going to go in any future court appearance.  Any decent defense attorney is going to ask "officer so and so, thank you for your testimony.  Would you say that you have good judgment?  Isn't it true that you pulled a gun at a snowball fight?  Since you did that, how can you expect the jury to trust your judgment as it pertains to the case at hand?"

His life was not being threatened--nothing that I have seen or read justifies pulling a gun.  I just can't see this guy being an effective police officer now that this event has blown up like this.
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