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All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes (Page 4)
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 2010-06-29 7:03 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Member  32 |  Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokesThis is an interesting thread, but to the OP-have you swam in an OWS?? Because first tri I did I started in the back and to the outside of the major pack because I wasn't an awesome swimmer! And I don't understand why most people don't do this, if they know they aren't fast?? And to all of you out there saying "shame on not doing the freestyle" is very discouraging to new beginners. I learned from my very bad swimming performance in my tri to take swim lessons and I've improved and learned alot. But I think those people that do a tri for the first time need that experience and put it towards future tris....this is beginner triathlete right?? I won't be a sidestroke/backstroke girl next time around, I've switched to a nice freestyle. But yes, I was one of those annoying slow swimmers the first time out and I don't regret it one bit! |
| 2010-06-29 7:04 PM in reply to: #2951748 |
Expert 4632    Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes undertheradar - 2010-06-29 7:21 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 6:18 PM undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. That's fantastic......so start in the front and then there will be no occasion for you to completely disregard the safety of your fellow competitors by swimming over them.
nc452010, I think your thread has been officially hijacked by an 18 year old. x2 in bold above, and is 3-5 seconds that important to you that you would risk injury or worse to a fellow competitor, maybe someone who is competing in their first triathlon (which is, after all, the whole dang point of this site)? |
| 2010-06-29 7:41 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Veteran 201 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes I'm new to all of this so maybe I'm missing something...but where can I find a list of "survival" strokes. I googled it and I found a list of swim strokes listed at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_stroke and no where does it describe the breaststroke as "survival stoke". I even looked up the rules from USAT and they state: 4.1 Permissible Strokes. Swimmers may use any stroke to propel themselves through the water and may tread water or float. I don't see anything there that says it's not in the spirit of the race to use anything other than the front crawl stroke. While other strokes may be "annoying" to those of you that are competent swimmers, I think it is highly discouraging for a newbie to get on here and see this attitude to the breaststroke in particular. I understand that other strokes can be dangerous to others, but that doesn't make it illegal. Personally, I only know two strokes, the front crawl and the elementary back stroke. However, my husband is doing his first tri with me in July and he kicks my butt doing the breaststroke. If that's what gets him through the race than good for him and I feel for the people in a 6 foot radius of him since he's 6'5! |
| 2010-06-29 8:28 PM in reply to: #2951744 |
Pro 4612 MA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 7:18 PM undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. By your logic, triathlons are neither cycling races nor run races. So everyone should bike and run at the same pace for the entire race. |
| 2010-06-29 8:54 PM in reply to: #2951890 |
Regular 62 Fort Bragg, NC | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes The reason front crawl is used in triathlons is because it's the most efficient long-distance stroke you can do that provides the best results, period. Breaststroke is easy, but slow. Butterfly is wicked fast, but it takes a ton of energy. It's also pretty convenient in a field of swimmers since you're less likely to affect your neighbors. That's really it - the safety thing is a judgment call on the part of the competitors. Be aware of your surroundings. People can do whatever they need to do to make it across the finish. |
| 2010-06-29 10:10 PM in reply to: #2951811 |
Veteran 385 Chaska, MN | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Megatron - 2010-06-29 7:03 PM This is an interesting thread, but to the OP-have you swam in an OWS?? Because first tri I did I started in the back and to the outside of the major pack because I wasn't an awesome swimmer! And I don't understand why most people don't do this, if they know they aren't fast?? And to all of you out there saying "shame on not doing the freestyle" is very discouraging to new beginners. I learned from my very bad swimming performance in my tri to take swim lessons and I've improved and learned alot. But I think those people that do a tri for the first time need that experience and put it towards future tris....this is beginner triathlete right?? I won't be a sidestroke/backstroke girl next time around, I've switched to a nice freestyle. But yes, I was one of those annoying slow swimmers the first time out and I don't regret it one bit! All of the issues stated here could be EASILY avoided if a RD would announce and people listen, that IF You need to use other strokes to finish...please stay out of the "fast lane" I've said it before and will add it one more time....I swim at a decent pace in the pool...lately 22min for 1000....( I know decent for some slow for others) but when I hit OWS, I freak out a bit...BUT knowing this...I start in the back and off to the side...I also look back to move if someone behind me is coming up so I don't kick them....Why do I do that? Because I'm a nice person ...I don't want to kick someone any more than they want to be kicked... I'm very happy when I leave the water and get on the bike....But the fact that I freak a bit in the water and use different strokes, that doesn't diminish the total enjoyment I get from participating in Tri's.... I'm working on getting over the OWS "fear" but if I never do...oh well...I'm still having fun and I DO avoid everyone in the water....We all just need to educate slower people to move on over....that's it... Edited by KCD1974 2010-06-29 10:12 PM |
| 2010-06-29 10:22 PM in reply to: #2951990 |
Expert 608 St. Louis | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes D.K. - 2010-06-29 8:28 PM yada yada yada...responding to the below By your logic, triathlons are neither cycling races nor run races. So everyone should bike and run at the same pace for the entire race. Yes, everyone should go the same pace for both the bike and the run...thats whythere are so many threads on pacing. About the hijacking part...ya I know, didn't think this discussion was going anywhere so wanted to troll this thread to the ground...Everybody has their view and on this topic it isn't going to change within a forum format...I think I'm 3/4 of the way there. I'll continue my meaningful work tomorrow morning. |
| 2010-06-30 4:24 AM in reply to: #2950118 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes All the front-pack swimmers in the Bali Tri (Sprint) are trying to find out who the guy breaststroking was. Yes, we found it objectionable that he constantly kept kicking us. It was perhaps more annoying that he was somehow KEEPING IN the LEAD PACK ... breaststroking! I secretly really admire this guy. I get jostled, punched, kicked, etc. a LOT in tri swims because I'm right in the scrum. However, the kicks from a guy breaststroking--especially the force being used to be able to breaststroke THAT FAST--were the worst I've ever experienced in a tri, even in water polo, frankly. I absolutely don't care what stroke people use. I have doggypaddled during a tri (bunch-up at the buoy). I really care about the propensity for WHAT stroke they are using to damage ME. If someone were using closed-fist freestyle with a straight-arm, out-to-the side recovery, and they were NOT swimming out to the side (that is, in my way), I'd be pretty pissed. |
| 2010-06-30 7:44 AM in reply to: #2952202 |
Member 119 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 10:22 PM D.K. - 2010-06-29 8:28 PM yada yada yada...responding to the below By your logic, triathlons are neither cycling races nor run races. So everyone should bike and run at the same pace for the entire race. Yes, everyone should go the same pace for both the bike and the run...thats whythere are so many threads on pacing. About the hijacking part...ya I know, didn't think this discussion was going anywhere so wanted to troll this thread to the ground...Everybody has their view and on this topic it isn't going to change within a forum format...I think I'm 3/4 of the way there. I'll continue my meaningful work tomorrow morning. If you want to troll, either find a bridge and crawl under it or go to fark.com |
| 2010-06-30 8:12 AM in reply to: #2950118 |
| 309 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes I do sprint tris because I am a beginner (read-couldn't swim at all last year) and the distance is just right for me. If you are so great at your swim that you cannot tolerate beginners using other strokes, perhaps it's time to move on to an olympic or half Ironman...It will be unlikely that you will have to put up with me doing a few breaststrokes every now and then. Will I start in the back? Of course. I don't want you swimming over me. Just like I am polite enough to move to the side, some of you should be polite enough to be encouraging, not eliteist. Seems to me that the sprint distance was designed for beginners. |
| 2010-06-30 8:47 AM in reply to: #2952620 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes nadaswimmer - 2010-06-30 10:12 AM I do sprint tris because I am a beginner (read-couldn't swim at all last year) and the distance is just right for me. If you are so great at your swim that you cannot tolerate beginners using other strokes, perhaps it's time to move on to an olympic or half Ironman...It will be unlikely that you will have to put up with me doing a few breaststrokes every now and then. Will I start in the back? Of course. I don't want you swimming over me. Just like I am polite enough to move to the side, some of you should be polite enough to be encouraging, not eliteist. Seems to me that the sprint distance was designed for beginners. me likey^^^^^^ |
| 2010-06-30 8:52 AM in reply to: #2952620 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Now you're going to open up that other great debate... the Sprints Are A Beginner Race And Then You Move On To "Real" Race debate. ;-) Sprints are a RACE. They happen to have a high propensity of beginners b/c the distances are shorter. They are not necessarily easier or a weaker choice. :p |
| 2010-06-30 9:02 AM in reply to: #2952711 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes mmrocker13 - 2010-06-30 10:52 AM Now you're going to open up that other great debate... the Sprints Are A Beginner Race And Then You Move On To "Real" Race debate. ;-) Sprints are a RACE. They happen to have a high propensity of beginners b/c the distances are shorter. They are not necessarily easier or a weaker choice. :p Ah, yes they are, which is why on here and elsewhere we generally suggest newbies start in a sprint, and is why they are the fastest growing event in Triathlon. If we didn't have shorter distance races I am certain Triathlon would be a much more marginalized sport than it is. I wouldn't like that, my training partner would. He likes the old days were men were men, nobody's trisuit had bright colours or matched their bike, no spectators watched, and few casual entrants raced. To each their own. |
| 2010-06-30 9:09 AM in reply to: #2950118 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes For people who are actually RACING, sprints are not easier. Many triathletes find them harder because they are balls-to-the-wall the whole way. If your goal is to participate and finish, however, yes, the shorter the distances are, the easier it's going to be. But I would STRONGLY urge any newbies, PARTICULARLY in a sprint, to stay extremely well off to the side and back at the swim start. Trust me ... this is for your own good. Ed: I say this because I really WANT newbies to do tris, and to not have a horrible experience during the swim so that they come back and do more tris. Edited by TriAya 2010-06-30 9:11 AM |
| 2010-06-30 9:20 AM in reply to: #2952769 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes TriAya - 2010-06-30 11:09 AM For people who are actually RACING, sprints are not easier. Many triathletes find them harder because they are balls-to-the-wall the whole way. Sprint races at the FOP are a little more intense during the race as speeds are a little higher. They are not that much higher. Even when you take out additional transition times Olys are little more than double sprint times for elites. The endurance and recovery times required for a sprint versus a longer race increases substantially over distance- compare sprint recovery to an HIM recovery and it's apples and oranges, not to mention the training efforts. Or may be I'm just too much fast twitch. |
| 2010-06-30 10:07 AM in reply to: #2952743 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes I know more than one IM vet who says he'd rather do an IM than a sprint any day b/c "Sprints hurt way more". Can they be easier? Sure. But I guarantee you they can be harder as well. Are 5k racers "less" athletes or taking the "easy" event compared to marathoners? Same principle. The distance, b/c it is less, CAN be easier. Doesn't mean it HAS to be. Edited by mmrocker13 2010-06-30 10:09 AM |
| 2010-06-30 10:13 AM in reply to: #2950118 |
Pro 4612 MA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Sprints are shorter, not necessarily easier. |
| 2010-06-30 12:06 PM in reply to: #2952936 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes mmrocker13 - 2010-06-30 12:07 PM I know more than one IM vet who says he'd rather do an IM than a sprint any day b/c "Sprints hurt way more". Can they be easier? Sure. But I guarantee you they can be harder as well. Are 5k racers "less" athletes or taking the "easy" event compared to marathoners? Same principle. The distance, b/c it is less, CAN be easier. Doesn't mean it HAS to be. Come on, I didn't say sprinters were lesser athletes and of course a sprint doesn't have to be easier, but we are not comparing a MOP Olympic effort with an FOP sprint athlete. Elite sprint to Elite Olympic or HIM, the recovery time is longer because it takes more out of you. Period. The pain is probably a bit higher in a Sprint over an Olympic and by intensity over an HIM but that's arguing the ridiculous semantics of what is easy. The reason virtually all of us here on BT suggest sprints or at most Oly's for newbies is because they are easier to train and prepare for and to complete for the newer endurance athlete. For Gawd's sakes, these are the folks this topic is about. There are lots of people who prefer long distance over short, and vice verso. A different thread perhaps. |
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