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All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes (Page 3)
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 2010-06-29 2:14 PM in reply to: #2951162 |
Pro  5011  Twin Cities |  Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokesIf the way I feel hasn't been made abundantly clear by this point, I have no idea what more I could possibly do to enlighten folks. ;-) |
| 2010-06-29 2:15 PM in reply to: #2951094 |
Veteran 812  | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes mmrocker13 - I probably should have stated: Relying on a melange of survival strokes is dangerous... I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why it's dangerous, so long as you can survive just fine using some combination of trokes. Back in the day when I first started doing triathlons my crawl _sucked_. I'd run out of breath, and I'd be forced to switch to the sidestroke where my head stays out of the water. But, I could sidestroke _all day long_. Others can do the backstroke _all day long_. It was slow, but I'd make the swim cutoff. So, please explain to me why you think it's dangerous that I or others are forced to use a stroke which we can do _all day long_. |
| 2010-06-29 2:18 PM in reply to: #2951189 |
Extreme Veteran 614 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes mmrocker13 - 2010-06-29 3:14 PM If the way I feel hasn't been made abundantly clear by this point, I have no idea what more I could possibly do to enlighten folks. ;-) Kick them in the face with a breaststroke kick? |
| 2010-06-29 2:21 PM in reply to: #2951197 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes WelshinPhilly - 2010-06-29 2:18 PM mmrocker13 - 2010-06-29 3:14 PM If the way I feel hasn't been made abundantly clear by this point, I have no idea what more I could possibly do to enlighten folks. ;-) Kick them in the face with a breaststroke kick? I suppose there *are* people out there who need to learn life's little lessons the hard way... |
| 2010-06-29 2:32 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Expert 2852  Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes I understand you are getting your swim in order. Perhaps you are being a little too sensitive and letting your own biases influence how you read things? Yes, I am (getting my stroke in order). But, I'm neither sensitive (about it) or upset (as was eluded to, earlier). It is what it is. I sidestroked 75M in my 1st tri (looking to the side, for oncoming traffic and behind me - pool swim). I breastroked in my 2nd for maybe 25-50M, waiting behind slower swimmers to pass, safely. I enjoyed the break (YES, I'm having a hard time with my crawl swimming!....lol). But, I swam the crawl when I had open water. I'm not in the least upset or sensitive, due to my swimming woes (except at ME). The rules say swimmers can swim any stroke. That allows a LOT of people, who have trouble swimming the crawl for distance, to try/tri. In case you missed it (sounds like you did), there was a thread here a while back - where an RD dis-allowed breast-stroking in his event. There were plenty of folks that his actions struck a nerve with. Like I said.....you don't have a problem (if you feel like other strokes shouldn't be allowed in a tri) with me. You have a problem with the rules. I'm devoid of emotion in this. If it went to that format (crawl stroke, only), I'd play by the rules (and absolutely plan to, from this point forward). Edited by nc452010 2010-06-29 2:33 PM |
| 2010-06-29 2:37 PM in reply to: #2951238 |
| Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes nc452010 - 2010-06-29 12:32 PM I understand you are getting your swim in order. Perhaps you are being a little too sensitive and letting your own biases influence how you read things? Yes, I am (getting my stroke in order). But, I'm neither sensitive (about it) or upset (as was eluded to, earlier). It is what it is. I sidestroked 75M in my 1st tri (looking to the side, for oncoming traffic and behind me - pool swim). I breastroked in my 2nd for maybe 25-50M, waiting behind slower swimmers to pass, safely. I enjoyed the break (YES, I'm having a hard time with my crawl swimming!....lol). But, I swam the crawl when I had open water. I'm not in the least upset or sensitive, due to my swimming woes (except at ME....lol). The rules say swimmers can swim any stroke. That allows a LOT of people, who have trouble swimming the crawl for distance, to try/tri. In case you missed it (sounds like you did), there was a thread here a while back - where an RD dis-allowed breast-stroking in his event. There were plenty of folks that his actions struck a nerve with. Like I said.....you don't have a problem (if you feel like other strokes shouldn't be allowed in a tri) with me. You have a problem with the rules. I'm devoid of emotion in this. If it went to that format (crawl stroke, only), I'd play by the rules (and absolutely plan to, from this point forward). Wow, I was actually trying to support you. But yeah, you're not upset... clearly (or you wouldn't feel the need to respond to every perceived (non existent) slight in the thread). As to the bold, please go back and actually read that thread re: the RD, you may find that I didn't in fact miss it..... As well, you should not ascribe opinions to people when you have no idea what their opinion is. I have not stated how I feel about such rules (but mabe if you actually read the thread you refer to, you might get an idea). Personally, I think this is just a troll for attention (which seems to have worked), so I'll leave you to it. |
| 2010-06-29 2:42 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Jesus.....The internet is pitiful. I'm truly sorry if you're upset. I'm not. The ad hominem is unnecessary, also. Discussion is discussion. That's all I'm doing. I'm not the one ascribing feelings that don't exist. |
| 2010-06-29 3:18 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes If you are in triathlon you should learn the crawl and do it in the race. I'm not against people doing any stroke, I'm against that death karate kick and I do not want one to hit me in the face. You can see and anticipate scissor kicking but a breaststroke kick comes out of nowhere and has alot of force behind it. |
| 2010-06-29 3:29 PM in reply to: #2951379 |
Extreme Veteran 1996 Halifax, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes furiousferret - 2010-06-29 5:18 PM If you are in triathlon you should learn the crawl and do it in the race. I'm not against people doing any stroke, I'm against that death karate kick and I do not want one to hit me in the face. You can see and anticipate scissor kicking but a breaststroke kick comes out of nowhere and has alot of force behind it. Yes, but not everyone will agree on what is the right way. nor do I think a right way should be imposed. Older folks, some newbies, etc., can complete the swim quite well using other strokes or alternating. The most efficient way to bike is on a tri-bike but we don't exclude hybrids, etc. To use your climbing analogy the question is can they tie knots, not can they tie the knot you wish they to use since it is the quickest to untie and will allow you to climb the chute sooner. Edited by blairrob 2010-06-29 3:33 PM |
| 2010-06-29 3:30 PM in reply to: #2951268 |
Veteran 812 | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes nc452010 - Jesus.....The internet is pitiful. I'm truly sorry if you're upset. I'm not. The ad hominem is unnecessary, also. Well.... I'm with you 110%. Your stories sound just like mine. My swimming sucked, but I never really felt like I was in any danger. I'd just switch to side stroke to catch my breath, get my bearings, and then go back to the crawl. It is an issue that simply by sucking you're taking up an undue amount of time and effort from the emergency personnel who might have to individually watch you and thus potentially putting other swimmers at additional risk. But on the other side of it, we are paying race fees, and I'd say that even sucky swimmers have a right to do the swim so long as they can make it within the cutoff time. The real lesson we should be trying to teach here is how to remain calm in the water. Sidestroking, breaststroking, or even treading water won't kill you. But panicking just might. |
| 2010-06-29 3:33 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Personally I don't care what stroke someone uses to complete the race as long as they are trained to complete the distance (and without a wetsuit). However, I would prefer that anyone who uses breaststroke would not use the whip kick and instead use a flutter kick or even dolphin kick. In my mind this is the same as when swimming with a group most swimmers will adjust their stroke when doing fly/breast in a lane with others as a courtesy to their lanemates. Shane |
| 2010-06-29 4:40 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Expert 608 St. Louis | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". |
| 2010-06-29 4:59 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". I'm assuming you'd do this if they were in your way and swimming the crawl. If so, your issue is only with slow swimmers. |
| 2010-06-29 5:02 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Can you do the breast stroke kick on the bike. That would be interesting. Jeff, I want everybody to be able to compete and I don't even think the rule should be changed. I just fear the breast stroke kick like you fear the swim. If you ever get in an OWS it would be nice if you would get off to the side if you can't crawl. I will be the first to congratulate you when you post that you did freestyle the whole distance. |
| 2010-06-29 5:17 PM in reply to: #2950118 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Man....again, the internet is awful. I'm sorry if you get what you said from what I wrote. I hope to never do another stroke in a tri, other than the crawl. I've done side (because I had to, and I think I did it, safely) and breast (because I was behind another swimmer and would have swam over her, crawling) for a total of <20% of my tri swims. I also knew I was in a pool and where I was in the fray. THIS thread was/is not about me. |
| 2010-06-29 5:25 PM in reply to: #2950952 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes D.K. - 2010-06-29 10:50 AM tcovert - 2010-06-29 12:58 PM D.K. - 2010-06-29 7:16 AM I have been slapped on my butts/back/thigh/head by front crawlers who swam too close to me. I don't disagree with your point, actually, but I still found this comment from one of your race reports kind of ironic: "Drafted off a guy for a while until he switched to breaststroke and kicked me on my waist." Yep. And I wasn't mad at the person switching strokes. Being bumped into during the swim (regardless of swim strokes) is part of the game. My RR was describing a fact. Yes, I got that from your post. And, as I said, I don't particularly disagree with your point. I just think it's ironic inasmuch as your RR manages to illustrate the underlying reality behind the thread. Whether people need to or want to live with that is obviously a matter of individual opinion. |
| 2010-06-29 5:25 PM in reply to: #2951591 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? |
| 2010-06-29 5:43 PM in reply to: #2951144 |
Elite 3090 Spokane, WA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes RedCorvette - 2010-06-29 1:56 PM I have mixed feelings about this whole deal. I understand the safety aspect of banning breaststroke, but it seems like an almost unenforceable rule. Do you put USTA stroke judges on jet ski's to monitor everyone? Is it a time penalty or instant DQ? What about doing breaststroke using a scissors kick? (which got me DQ'd more than once in my competitive swimming career). If you are going to allow some breaststroking for sighting or fixing goggles, what is the limit? three strokes? five strokes? It is a time limit? This is what it all boils down to. The rule would be unenforceable and unnecessary. I personally don't have a problem with people using strokes other than crawl. I have done it myself--especially when I was starting out. I'm all for us being able to discuss different viewpoints, but really, this is an awful lot of energy being spent wasted discussing something that will never happen. |
| 2010-06-29 5:45 PM in reply to: #2951679 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Donskiman - 2010-06-29 3:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? Precisely why my "it seems to be a d-bag magnet" option in the poll thread on eliminating the mass swim start attracted a few other takers... |
| 2010-06-29 6:04 PM in reply to: #2951591 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 5:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". "Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery..." Watch your back, kid. Mark |
| 2010-06-29 6:08 PM in reply to: #2951679 |
Extreme Veteran 404 Long Beach, CA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. |
| 2010-06-29 6:18 PM in reply to: #2951733 |
Expert 608 St. Louis | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. |
| 2010-06-29 6:21 PM in reply to: #2951744 |
Extreme Veteran 404 Long Beach, CA | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 6:18 PM undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. That's fantastic......so start in the front and then there will be no occasion for you to completely disregard the safety of your fellow competitors by swimming over them. |
| 2010-06-29 6:40 PM in reply to: #2951744 |
Master 1970 Somewhere on the Tennessee River | Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 6:18 PM undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. Well done on improving your swim time. Now let's work on improving your people skills. The only way that swimming over someone might be remotely considered acceptable behavior is if it's so crowded you can't swim slightly to the left or right of whomever is in your way. In running and biking it is expected of the one doing the passing to go around the one being passed. If you swam over me, and that's definitely an hypothetical situation, you could, well, expect an equal answer in the water, or if on the run, I would be Zola Bud to your being Mary Decker. I should hope you as a cross country runner know of whom and of which event I am alluding to. This is my opinion as a 52 year old former combat experienced marine. Edited by MadMathemagician 2010-06-29 6:47 PM |
| 2010-06-29 6:42 PM in reply to: #2951744 |
| Subject: RE: All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 4:18 PM undertheradar - 2010-06-29 6:08 PM Donskiman - 2010-06-29 5:25 PM xcrunner2010 - 2010-06-29 3:40 PM My view as an 18 year old: Anybody not strong to swim it front crawl should start in the back. If you have to breaststroke around the turns I will swim over you...If you are going slower than I, I will swim over you if that is the fastest way...Hopefully it doesn't ruin your race but that's the key word and I will anything (legally) to win a "race". Why is this kind of attitude so prevalent in the swim? Why do people think it's OK to do these kind of things to other racers in the swim when they wouldn't do this in the bike or run? In this case it's because he's 18 and was/is probably a bully in school. Yes, I was the 5'6 bully just terrorizing everybody...I used to be a bad swimmer...Hit 11:20 for first 500 2 years ago. Now I can do sub 7:00. Might as well use my hard work to its fullest advantage. However, there shouldn't be much passing in the swim to begin with. Triathlons are not swimming races...people should go the same pace for the entire swim...This allows for racing and positioning in the first 100 and then a fun swim for the next whatever amount. So if you're in wave 7 you don't expect to pass people in waves 6, 5, 4 etc? |
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