New information on Lance?
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2011-01-18 9:16 PM |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: New information on Lance? New information on Lance Armstrong? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/more/01/18/lance.armstrong/index.html?hpt=C2 Edited by crowny2 2011-01-18 9:17 PM |
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2011-01-18 10:08 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
2011-01-18 10:23 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? some interesting things previewed but probably nothing new going to be said. He is guilty little more needs to be brought up to prove that. |
2011-01-19 7:25 AM in reply to: #3307867 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-18 10:23 PMsome interesting things previewed but probably nothing new going to be said. He is guilty little more needs to be brought up to prove that. And that proof is where? Last I checked he had been convicted of nothing and NOTHING has been proven. |
2011-01-19 8:04 AM in reply to: #3307772 |
Pro 4723 CyFair | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? Well the one thing I can say is that from training with athletes that dope, watching the happenings in Balco and the like, having thought about taking the needle myself is where there is this much smoke there is almost certainly some fire. |
2011-01-19 11:27 AM in reply to: #3308226 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? uhcoog - 2011-01-19 8:04 AM Well the one thing I can say is that from training with athletes that dope, watching the happenings in Balco and the like, having thought about taking the needle myself is where there is this much smoke there is almost certainly some fire. Guilt by association is a dangerous road to go down. |
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2011-01-19 1:01 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? He did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. |
2011-01-19 1:09 PM in reply to: #3309199 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 1:01 PMHe did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. Meh. Had an entire post and now it is lost and I'm not inclinded to repost. Double meh. :) Edited by crowny2 2011-01-19 1:12 PM |
2011-01-19 2:01 PM in reply to: #3308898 |
Pro 4723 CyFair | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? crowny2 - 2011-01-19 11:27 AM uhcoog - 2011-01-19 8:04 AM Well the one thing I can say is that from training with athletes that dope, watching the happenings in Balco and the like, having thought about taking the needle myself is where there is this much smoke there is almost certainly some fire. Guilt by association is a dangerous road to go down. Yes it is. It just strikes me that you fall into that mold of all the other blindly loyal Lance fans. I could be totally off here, but that's how the post struck me. Lance more than almost any athlete in this country has a fan base with blinders on. If it was just one failed test that was thrown out that would be one thing. |
2011-01-19 3:16 PM in reply to: #3309337 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? uhcoog - 2011-01-19 2:01 PM crowny2 - 2011-01-19 11:27 AM uhcoog - 2011-01-19 8:04 AM Well the one thing I can say is that from training with athletes that dope, watching the happenings in Balco and the like, having thought about taking the needle myself is where there is this much smoke there is almost certainly some fire. Guilt by association is a dangerous road to go down. Yes it is. It just strikes me that you fall into that mold of all the other blindly loyal Lance fans. I could be totally off here, but that's how the post struck me. Lance more than almost any athlete in this country has a fan base with blinders on. If it was just one failed test that was thrown out that would be one thing. Actually, what I was going to write in the post just before yours was that I'm not a fan of his. I actually can't stand the guy, but it has nothing to do with the doping thing. I just think he is an azz. That being said, I can't bring myself to be judgemental of someone who has been surrounded by accusation after accusation but has never had anything truly concrete brought against him. Even with the "evidence that was dismissed on 'bogus' circumstances". He has been essentially charged, tried and convicted in the court of public opinion about the doping, but nothing legally. |
2011-01-19 3:28 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? One more thing to add. If they do charge and convict him of doping, then I would be ALL for throwing the book at him. Including stripping him of his titles. Until then, I say those in charge either need to put up or shut up. This is getting ridiculous. Just wanted to throw that out there. |
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2011-01-19 3:53 PM in reply to: #3309199 |
Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 11:01 AM He did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. I like him, think he probably doped, don't really care, loved to watch him race. I suppose I justify it by thinking they all doped and he still kicked their a$$es. But I am a stickler for process. what are the bogus reasons positive tests were thrown out, and why were they bogus (i.e., I assume they followed the standard protocol and there was some other reason they were rejected)? I also have a hard time believing that he had syringes in a bag going through the airport and everyone just looked away, given the money and notariety that could be gained by being "the guy that nailed LA." If they had said money changed hands, that would be more believable, but I didn't see that |
2011-01-19 7:16 PM in reply to: #3309591 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? ChrisM - 2011-01-19 4:53 PM mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 11:01 AM He did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. I like him, think he probably doped, don't really care, loved to watch him race. I suppose I justify it by thinking they all doped and he still kicked their a$$es. But I am a stickler for process. what are the bogus reasons positive tests were thrown out, and why were they bogus (i.e., I assume they followed the standard protocol and there was some other reason they were rejected)? I also have a hard time believing that he had syringes in a bag going through the airport and everyone just looked away, given the money and notariety that could be gained by being "the guy that nailed LA." If they had said money changed hands, that would be more believable, but I didn't see that in 2005 there was an early test being developed for EPO. they retro tested 5 of his samples from the 99 TDF and all were positive. The tests were shown as inconclusive because the test could still be faulty. In 08 with a fool proof test they asked him if they could retest and he refused. Oh and isnt it a little strange he retires the same year they develop a test for EPO? only to come back when new doping processes are undetectable. |
2011-01-19 8:02 PM in reply to: #3309930 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 7:16 PM ChrisM - 2011-01-19 4:53 PM mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 11:01 AM He did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. I like him, think he probably doped, don't really care, loved to watch him race. I suppose I justify it by thinking they all doped and he still kicked their a$$es. But I am a stickler for process. what are the bogus reasons positive tests were thrown out, and why were they bogus (i.e., I assume they followed the standard protocol and there was some other reason they were rejected)? I also have a hard time believing that he had syringes in a bag going through the airport and everyone just looked away, given the money and notariety that could be gained by being "the guy that nailed LA." If they had said money changed hands, that would be more believable, but I didn't see that in 2005 there was an early test being developed for EPO. they retro tested 5 of his samples from the 99 TDF and all were positive. The tests were shown as inconclusive because the test could still be faulty. In 08 with a fool proof test they asked him if they could retest and he refused. Oh and isnt it a little strange he retires the same year they develop a test for EPO? only to come back when new doping processes are undetectable. And still no proof, all conjecture and circumstantial evidence. |
2011-01-19 9:49 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? 5 positive tests circumstantial? and a million dollar donation from lancy poo to the uci as well. |
2011-01-20 5:11 AM in reply to: #3307772 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Chrizzzzz 2011-01-20 5:33 AM |
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2011-01-20 7:55 AM in reply to: #3307772 |
Pro 4723 CyFair | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? Ah yes the McGwire argument. Let's just focus on the problem moving forward. Greatest Sportsman that ever lived? Really? In a niche sport? If he is there are always going to be people trying to tear him down and as long as he's openly defiant and surly about it the spotlight will be worse. Personally I think the cheaters will always be ahead of the test so just legalize it. Thus this is one of the instances where getting caught isn't the end all be all. Cleaning up sports is a fallacy and impossibility. |
2011-01-20 8:57 AM in reply to: #3308898 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Chrizzzzz 2011-01-20 9:00 AM |
2011-01-20 12:53 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? What about the blood bags that were found outside the 09 TDF? forget about those too and just move forward? Lance abused the system and is being called a great racer by many. A great racer he is but id like the lighting to be correct. And merckx did fail 3 drug tests |
2011-01-20 2:21 PM in reply to: #3310199 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 9:49 PM 5 positive tests circumstantial? and a million dollar donation from lancy poo to the uci as well. If a test that first shows as negative and then positive a few years later, that seems rather suspicious. The reason those tests were thrown out because the fact you have different results is indicative of either a faulty test or the samples were tampered with. The samples couldn't be proven to be untampered because chain of custody wasn't carefully monitored enough. The only "new evidence" that could be given is testimony from a guy who's bitter because he got busted for doping and he got denied a spot on Team Radioshack. Edited by msteiner 2011-01-20 2:22 PM |
2011-01-20 6:08 PM in reply to: #3309930 |
Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 5:16 PM ChrisM - 2011-01-19 4:53 PM mkarr0110 - 2011-01-19 11:01 AM He did have a couple of retro positives that were tossed out for bogus reasons. I like him, think he probably doped, don't really care, loved to watch him race. I suppose I justify it by thinking they all doped and he still kicked their a$$es. But I am a stickler for process. what are the bogus reasons positive tests were thrown out, and why were they bogus (i.e., I assume they followed the standard protocol and there was some other reason they were rejected)? I also have a hard time believing that he had syringes in a bag going through the airport and everyone just looked away, given the money and notariety that could be gained by being "the guy that nailed LA." If they had said money changed hands, that would be more believable, but I didn't see that in 2005 there was an early test being developed for EPO. they retro tested 5 of his samples from the 99 TDF and all were positive. The tests were shown as inconclusive because the test could still be faulty. In 08 with a fool proof test they asked him if they could retest and he refused. Oh and isnt it a little strange he retires the same year they develop a test for EPO? only to come back when new doping processes are undetectable. So the question is, does that follow WADA's (or whoever is in control, I can't keep it straight) protocol? If it doesn't, (ie. testing 6 yar old samples, was there a B test? etc etc ), then I am not convinced. The protocols are there for a reason, either follow them or don't, but if you don't then what's the point of them?? Was the 2008 offer to test new blood or old blood? I am assuming he had grounds to refuse and wasn't in the tsting protocol if it was new blood. If it's old blood, no freaking way. He has no idea how that blood has been kept, etc. There's probably no scientific protocol in the world that would justify testing samples that old. He retired at what seemed an appropriate time, after 7 tours, etc. And I don't know anything about his comeback coinciding with undetectable processes, if you could link to some independent article, I'd like to read that |
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2011-01-20 6:14 PM in reply to: #3311484 |
Subject: RE: New information on Lance? mkarr0110 - 2011-01-20 10:53 AM What about the blood bags that were found outside the 09 TDF? forget about those too and just move forward? Were those linked to LA? Not challenging, seriously asking. I guess one of my issues is there is all these "sightings" of LA with bags, syringes, etc. LA has been under a microscope for years. the french and Novitzky are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, I would just think with that kind of firepower, someone, somewhere would come up with a truly smoking gun (as opposed to merely smoke). I guess the Andreus are about as solid evidence as I've heard |
2011-01-21 7:49 AM in reply to: #3307772 |
Expert 1706 NoVA | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? From Lance's Twitter: |
2011-01-24 12:20 PM in reply to: #3307772 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? I've gone back and read the article a couple times now and don't see where there's any "new" evidence, just a re-hash of old accusations and alleged circumstantial evidence. Certainly no smoking gun anywhere. Did Lance dope? Don't know, he might have, then again maybe he didn't. There seem to be as many who are convinced he did as are convinced he didn't. All we know for sure at this point is that he's never failed a drug test. With all the testing he's undergone does that mean he's just been lucky, that he's smarter than all the testers, or just perhaps he was clean all the time? Innocent until proven guilty? I respect his accomplishments on the bike, his comeback from cancer, and most of all his efforts with the LiveStrong Foundation. At the same time, I don't have much respect for how he has conducted his personal life, but that may just be a value judgement on my part. One of the thoughts that has occured to me was if he was so close to death from cancer, why would he do anything stupid, like doping, that could potentially jeapordize his health? I would also think that his cancer docs would have picked up on it during his rountine follow-up checks. Or is that being covered up by doctor-patient confidentiality? And maybe it's just Lance's spin, but it seems that all of his "accusers" either have a some type of grudge against him or stand to profit monetarily, i.e., the scumbag Landis. And I certainly get the impression from the article that SI is just trying to generate some buzz to sell magazines. If he is guilty, then the prosecutor needs to put up or shut up, and not continue to drag it out, spending millions of taxpayer dollars. That money certainly would be better spent on cancer research or other more beneficial uses. Mark
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2011-02-04 5:31 PM in reply to: #3312224 |
Member 313 Ventura County, California | Subject: RE: New information on Lance? ChrisM - 2011-01-20 4:14 PM I guess one of my issues is there is all these "sightings" of LA with bags, syringes, etc. ChrisM - I've been around Pro Cycling a little and have two comments:
Edited by TaylorB 2011-02-04 5:43 PM |
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