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Running with my dog strategy
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 2011-02-13 7:38 PM |
Member  44 |  Subject: Running with my dog strategyHi everyone, I just thought I would post a piece of success, and ask how others do it. All of my running I do with my dog which I have had since September. He is a 3 year old weimeraner and a great pet, but very stubborn, and so far relatively poorly trained. We've probably managed a couple of hundred miles together now, and he never stops thinking its a race and is constantly pulling me. I run him on my left and keep him on a short leash, which is tied around my waist. I work to ensure his neck never gets past my thigh as we run together, otherwise, he will tend to try to cross my path when interested in something to our right and I trip over him. Its usually a struggle and not often pleasant as I am constantly either praising him for not pulling, or giving him a "heel" command, to get him back into his "spot". I have hunted all over the net for strategies on this one, but haven't run across a good answer to "whats the best way to do it". But... Just last night we had breakthrough. I tied the leash more tightly than usual around my waist, and this time against my skin. I was hoping to avoid having it rotate around my waist when he pulls. I have the leash itself attached at my back, which allows me to use my body some for control, just by rotating my hips when necessary, and don't usually have to get my hands involved. on this night, because the leash was tighter and against my skin it didn't rotate at all with his pull and he gained nothing from pulling me for a change. Usually, he at least gains a minimal rotation of the leash around my waist and a slight ability to move further ahead of me. Anyway when he realized rather quickly that there was no gain in pulling he stopped pulling for the first time in two hundred miles, and just relaxed a bit and trotted beside me in his spot for the whole run. It was at last the run I had been hoping for with my dog. We usually do between 3 and 5 miles, but it was pleasant enough that we ran for 7. sorry for the long post. Anyway I wanted to share my success and ask how others do it. |
| 2011-02-13 7:41 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Veteran 459  Indiana | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Have you tried a gentle leader or a Halti? They go instead of collars - instead of grabbing around the neck, they grab around the face. The dog doesn't want to pull, because if they do, they just pull their own head down. I don't run with my Doberman (haven't yet anyway), but these things make walking with her a lot less of a pain. May try running with her when the weather gets better. I am tempted to try your idea of leashing around the waist because I hate having stuff in my hands when I run. Edited by alath 2011-02-13 7:42 PM |
| 2011-02-13 8:02 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Expert 738 Alabama | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. |
| 2011-02-13 8:03 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Master 1704 Charlotte | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy First, I would try the front hooking harness for walks (hooks in the middle of thier chest). When they pull, it turns them sideways. This worked for my boxer that loved to pull on walks. I never used it on a run, but I used this exclusively when i was training her on the leash. Might be harder to nip this now that you are running, but it did work while my girl was still a pup in training. |
| 2011-02-13 8:32 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Member 44 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy thanks for the suggestions. I actually started with a front leader leash, as I thought that would work best, but it actually gave him a ton of power to pull from his body, and he used that power. Then I went to a halti, but he actually was much more nervous with it on, and seemed to jump, or get unruly really easily and was mostly concerned with getting the thing off, than with running. After that I decided to go more minimalistic, and went with I believe its called an English leash, or slip leash. Its just basically a nylon cord with a loop that goes around his neck. It works best when its slack, which he can do. I use it to give him a "tug" and say "heel"to get him to back up. he always follows the command, but immediately surges back to a pull, and its a never ending cycle... usually. I have another strategy that has been effective as well. I run him laps on a railed walkway from the road to the beach near my house. With a rail always available on our left, I can take a step toward the left rail and he has to stay in his spot, as there is not enough room for his shoulders to get through. This has been good training for him to stay in his spot. A lap on these walkways is about a tenth of a mile, so we have to do 30 or 40 laps. It gets boring, but it helps him learn. It helps with the ongoing training, but hasn't been as helpful as the unmovable leash around my waist. for what its worth so far I have only had really one painful fall. Skinned knees, and a really confused dog. |
| 2011-02-13 10:17 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
| Member 14 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy I bit the bullet 3+ years ago and took my dog to off leash obediance school. Twelve weeks long. One class a week for three hours and an hour of practice every day in between. One of the best things I ever did. My dogs never leave my side unless I tell them too. It's made things much more enjoyable for me and now find that my dogs can go everywhere with me since I never have to worry about them. I hate holding a leash while running and couldn't stand the pulling and tripping with my 85lb dogs. Not a quick solution, but well worth the time and makes dog ownership so much more enjoyable. |
| 2011-02-13 11:40 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Consult a professional, simple as that. When in a proper heel your dogs focus should be entirely on you and nothing else. That way when you slow, he slows. When you turn, he turns with you. No wandering, no distractions, nothing. You're asking your dog to heel yet he has no clue what heel really means. Does your dog know any other basic obedience such as sit, stay, down, come? All of these basic commands reinforce you as alpha (pack leader) and encourage your dog to keep his focus on you. You need to start there, then work a heel properly while walking. This is usually done with the dog on some sort of training collar (halti, choker, prong, leader etc) in an effort that encourages the dog to focus on only you otherwise it receives a small correction. It's introduced in an area that is free of distractions and then as training progresses distractions are slowly brought into the equation. Next thing you know you have a wonderful running companion that will carry his own leash while remaining by your side the entire time. Best of luck <-- former professional trainer |
| 2011-02-14 6:27 AM in reply to: #3353253 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy x2 on classes or a trainer. My SIL had no dog management skills, and with her third dog, finally got serious about it, and made a dog better rather than worse. A smart and curious dog really wants a job to do, and obedience classes gives them that. Mojo was a "very active dog" when we adopted him. The only time that first year he settled down was in obedience classes, which then carried over as long as I gave him instructions (in the house as well as on walks/run/hikes/travelling in the general public domain). I would also think about using the Halti/Gentle Leader again. Both of my dogs would rub their faces and show some degree of agitation when I would put it on them, but once we were moving at a good pace, would be much easier to handle. |
| 2011-02-14 7:40 AM in reply to: #3353285 |
Member 24 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Tizzy - 2011-02-13 8:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. NEVER, EVER USE THIS ON A WEIM! Weims have very thin skin and you will end up stabbing him in the neck and causing him to bleed because after so many attempts to pull and getting stabbed he is going to get mad and the behavior is going to get worse from being hurt. Same goes with the chain choke collar. One thing I would recommend to you is whats called a martingale collar. They are like the english lead but instead of the lead being like that its the collar and the leash is just a normal leash. First of all the main reason your having problems with your weim and running is because you didn't train them properly as a puppy on how to walk on a leash. If you did train him properly as a puppy you didn't you didn't keep up the training. Weims are known for once they are taught something the minute they get a chance to find out that your slipping or getting lazy at correcting them they will continue to get worse with obediance skills that you haven't continually worked on. Weims are very smart dogs and wonderful pets when exercise enough and taught proper obediance. I personally taught my 3 year old weim to run off leash through a shock collar. He was so smart that he knew the minute I put the shock collar on him what it was and he immediately straightened up. I never had to shock him I only toned him. I'm currently working on my 6.5 month old weim on her running skills on a leash. She tends to be very excited for the first mile or two which is normal for a weim if you haven't had them out playing all day. She relaxes into the run after two miles and on my easy pace days she can run 45 minutes on my faster days she can run 35 minutes. One suggestion that I have is to possibly let your weim play for a couple of minutes before you head out for your run with him. Just remember that even though it is very frustrating weims are wonderful dog but will continually test you to see what they can get away with. I have owned weims for 7 years and can tell you that this is very true. We have hired a personal trainer and it worked but unless you continually keep up the training that the personal trainer taught you it will be a waste of money. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me. I have a lot of experience with weims and can give some good advice. Just be careful of who you take advice from on here because weims aren't just any kind of dog and you can hurt them and cause mental issues really fast with them if you aren't careful. |
| 2011-02-14 9:46 AM in reply to: #3353285 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Tizzy - 2011-02-13 9:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. This kind of statement reminds me of when we did not use anesthetics in young kids because we believed they either did not feel pain or it did not matter. Think circumcisions done with no numbing agents. Take the prong collar, and put it on your leg over your pants. Then have someone yank it the same way you would do if you were giving the dog a sharp correction. If you would have no problem with that being done until you figured out what the person wanted you to do differently and how to do it, then go for it. |
| 2011-02-14 10:04 AM in reply to: #3353919 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy gearboy - 2011-02-14 10:46 AM Tizzy - 2011-02-13 9:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. This kind of statement reminds me of when we did not use anesthetics in young kids because we believed they either did not feel pain or it did not matter. Think circumcisions done with no numbing agents. Take the prong collar, and put it on your leg over your pants. Then have someone yank it the same way you would do if you were giving the dog a sharp correction. If you would have no problem with that being done until you figured out what the person wanted you to do differently and how to do it, then go for it. That's exactly what the trainer did with it the first time he gave it to me. It's important that if you ever use one, you understand how to use it. Don't ever just go buy one and figure it out. Go to a professional to figure out what works for your dog. |
| 2011-02-14 10:06 AM in reply to: #3353253 |
Master 1484 Sedona, AZ | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy For me, the biggest thing to do is not allow the dog to pull. Too many people let their dog pull them on walks, etc. It teaches the dog that they are SUPPOSED to pull on walks, as in that's how it's done. When they feel the tension on the leash, they should get a correction (a gentle 'leash pop' and attention-getting word like 'hey!'). Many dogs also have a 'pull' instinct. so pulling on the leash (as opposed to a light leash pop) will get the to pull against it. As to getting them to run with you, don't graduate them to a waist-leash until they run with you properly. You have much less control over them when the leash is around your waist, and if they don't get a correction when they do something wrong, they will never learn that they are doing anything wrong. Sounds like you are making headway, so more power to you! I love running with my dog, and it helps him get rid of a lot of energy. We're doing around 20-25 mpw together (my wife picks him up on the long runs as they are too much for him). |
| 2011-02-14 10:10 AM in reply to: #3353919 |
| Member 49 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy gearboy - 2011-02-14 9:46 AM Tizzy - 2011-02-13 9:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. This kind of statement reminds me of when we did not use anesthetics in young kids because we believed they either did not feel pain or it did not matter. Think circumcisions done with no numbing agents. Take the prong collar, and put it on your leg over your pants. Then have someone yank it the same way you would do if you were giving the dog a sharp correction. If you would have no problem with that being done until you figured out what the person wanted you to do differently and how to do it, then go for it. I've done it. I have no problem with it. My dog has no problem with it either. Very simply, having gotten him from a shelter and discovering he had massive aggression issues that were undetected, if we didn't train him (properly and under the guidance of a behaviorist) using the prong collar, we would have had to put him down. I have no doubt about that. Instead, we have a loving and well behaved dog who we have control over. The reality is, dogs use the same techniques to teach each other not to mess with them. They bite. Mothers bite to correct. Herding dogs bite to move animals. It's part of their language. OP, the issue is to find out the best way to teach your dog to walk properly with you and then translate that into running. My dog, who when we got him would constaintly strain at the leash, now runs happily right next to me (or maybe a bit ahead when I'm slowing down). There are a lot of different strategies for teaching your dog to walk, from behavioral training classes to do it yourself techniques. Which is best is up to you and your dog of course. But you'll definitely enjoy your runs more if you teach your buddy to walk correctly. |
| 2011-02-14 12:01 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
New user 433 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Ran last weekend with my dog for the first time, got him at a rescue place, boxer. Foster owner trained the dog to walk with a prong collar. Dog runs right next to me 95% of the time, the other 5% is just pulling him away from other dogs/people..but not loosing pace or slowing down too much. Those collars work well, but the dog needs to be trained first with walking. Give it a small pull when the dog go past your knee too much and then once you run with it will usually stay by your knee. They get use to it and will always keep looking for your knee as a pacer. If the dog lags behind, they will get pulled and learn to keep up. Knee or leg..depends on size of dog. The other tip is to gradual increase pace when you first start, in the training or in a normal run, because at least with my dog, it doesn't recognize that you are going faster all of sudden until it gets pulled a bit. So, I might increase the pace 30s mm and keep ramping up to the speed that I want to go vs straight starting out at my goal pace. My old dog, always pulled, never worked with it, pug, but they only walk a mile and then have to be picked up and carried home anyway. |
| 2011-02-14 12:04 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
New user 433 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Just with my limited experience, I would say running with a dog works best for recover, long, and break runs. Maybe mile repeats....I don't think they work well for tempo or speed work because they still can be distracting and slow your pace a tad...darn squirals. My initial thoughts..would love to hear from others. |
| 2011-02-14 12:14 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Regular 282 Toronto, ON | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy I got a good training collar from my trainer. It's like a choke chain except it doesn't ever get tight. So it's got a natural stopping mechanism and basically it's silent when Dex is running next to me but as soon as he starts to pull, I can correct him by tugging and it makes a loud chain-rattling noise which goes with my growl to correct him (yes, I growl, it works). So he never gets any physical correction from me, just has learned to associate the noise with a correction. The key really is not in running with your dog on leash but leash training in general. I have a shepherd/rottweiler mix who turned 2 yesterday and he's a NUTBAR in terms of energy. I had to break it down to taking 1-2 steps on the driveway and stopping. Because the problem was that he wasn't paying any attention to me whatsoever, he was outside, excited and ready to explore. I had to get his focus and teach him that *I* was in charge, not him. That said, if I haven't done leash work with him in a while he forgets very quickly. And if I want to run with him without it, I use a Gentle Leader. The second I stop running, he's trying to get it off but when I'm running he's great with it and it's very helpful. I would stop with the leash around your waist if he's not paying attention to you. I tried that method twice. Loved it the first time. The second time (after an hour at the dog park no less) he saw a squirrel, took off and I flew about 6' before I landed at the base of the tree the squirrel had run up and smacked my head into it hard enough that I saw stars. The dog didn't even notice. He's kind of an a$$hole really, good thing he's cute. |
| 2011-02-14 12:18 PM in reply to: #3354311 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy lamb_y2003 - 2011-02-14 1:14 PM I got a good training collar from my trainer. It's like a choke chain except it doesn't ever get tight. So it's got a natural stopping mechanism and basically it's silent when Dex is running next to me but as soon as he starts to pull, I can correct him by tugging and it makes a loud chain-rattling noise which goes with my growl to correct him (yes, I growl, it works). So he never gets any physical correction from me, just has learned to associate the noise with a correction. The key really is not in running with your dog on leash but leash training in general. I have a shepherd/rottweiler mix who turned 2 yesterday and he's a NUTBAR in terms of energy. I had to break it down to taking 1-2 steps on the driveway and stopping. Because the problem was that he wasn't paying any attention to me whatsoever, he was outside, excited and ready to explore. I had to get his focus and teach him that *I* was in charge, not him. That said, if I haven't done leash work with him in a while he forgets very quickly. And if I want to run with him without it, I use a Gentle Leader. The second I stop running, he's trying to get it off but when I'm running he's great with it and it's very helpful. I would stop with the leash around your waist if he's not paying attention to you. I tried that method twice. Loved it the first time. The second time (after an hour at the dog park no less) he saw a squirrel, took off and I flew about 6' before I landed at the base of the tree the squirrel had run up and smacked my head into it hard enough that I saw stars. The dog didn't even notice. He's kind of an a$$hole really, good thing he's cute. Mine, too  What kind of collar is the one you're talking about? Also, as far as you growling goes, that's awesome. When I went to the trainer, he told me that I didn't sound authoritative enough. I have to use a deep, serious voice to get him to obey when he's distracted. |
| 2011-02-14 12:38 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy I would definately suggest a trainer. Find one in your area with a good reputation. We found one when we got our last dog and had some...family integration issues with our others pets. She worked out fabulously well for some home visits/one on one training work with us and our dogs. Most recently we are taking a class with her to teach our 6 year old lab that seeing other dogs does not mean eating other dogs faces. so far it is working well also. We have also been working on normal training stuff all the time for the last 2 years we have had this dog. She is very smart, but very very stubborn. |
| 2011-02-14 1:04 PM in reply to: #3353253 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy Get a dog trainer. Edited by pga_mike 2011-02-14 1:06 PM |
| 2011-02-14 1:41 PM in reply to: #3353665 |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy tayjay - 2011-02-14 6:40 AM Tizzy - 2011-02-13 8:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it. NEVER, EVER USE THIS ON A WEIM! Weims have very thin skin and you will end up stabbing him in the neck and causing him to bleed because after so many attempts to pull and getting stabbed he is going to get mad and the behavior is going to get worse from being hurt. Same goes with the chain choke collar. One thing I would recommend to you is whats called a martingale collar. They are like the english lead but instead of the lead being like that its the collar and the leash is just a normal leash. First of all the main reason your having problems with your weim and running is because you didn't train them properly as a puppy on how to walk on a leash. If you did train him properly as a puppy you didn't you didn't keep up the training. Weims are known for once they are taught something the minute they get a chance to find out that your slipping or getting lazy at correcting them they will continue to get worse with obediance skills that you haven't continually worked on. Weims are very smart dogs and wonderful pets when exercise enough and taught proper obediance. I personally taught my 3 year old weim to run off leash through a shock collar. He was so smart that he knew the minute I put the shock collar on him what it was and he immediately straightened up. I never had to shock him I only toned him. I'm currently working on my 6.5 month old weim on her running skills on a leash. She tends to be very excited for the first mile or two which is normal for a weim if you haven't had them out playing all day. She relaxes into the run after two miles and on my easy pace days she can run 45 minutes on my faster days she can run 35 minutes. One suggestion that I have is to possibly let your weim play for a couple of minutes before you head out for your run with him. Just remember that even though it is very frustrating weims are wonderful dog but will continually test you to see what they can get away with. I have owned weims for 7 years and can tell you that this is very true. We have hired a personal trainer and it worked but unless you continually keep up the training that the personal trainer taught you it will be a waste of money. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me. I have a lot of experience with weims and can give some good advice. Just be careful of who you take advice from on here because weims aren't just any kind of dog and you can hurt them and cause mental issues really fast with them if you aren't careful. You are extremely incorrect and misinformed on the mechanics of a prong collar. Additionally, nobody should ever run out and start training with a remote right away either. I'll leave it at that as I learned long ago to not try and argue dog training on internet forums. I'll repeat what's been echoed here already, go get a competent trainer and work from there. It's by far the best money you could invest. Think of the trainer as a professional bike fitter for your dog. Best of luck. |
| 2011-02-14 1:44 PM in reply to: #3354550 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy thebigb - 2011-02-14 2:41 PM I'll repeat what's been echoed here already, go get a competent trainer and work from there. It's by far the best money you could invest. Think of the trainer as a professional bike fitter for your dog. Best of luck. x2 I like this comparison! |
| 2011-02-14 2:09 PM in reply to: #3354318 |
Regular 282 Toronto, ON | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy ratherbeswimming - 2011-02-14 12:18 PM What kind of collar is the one you're talking about? It's like this one. So it's a regular collar (mine's not nylon, it's cotton) with a chain that is only there for noise. You can see that the chain section is short so it just stops pulling when the two larger rings meet. So Dexter never gets choked, he just hears the chain.  |
| 2011-02-14 2:19 PM in reply to: #3354630 |
Veteran 160 Alaska | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy I believe that is a martingale type collar. I use those with my dogs, although the martingale part isn't chain. |
| 2011-02-14 2:24 PM in reply to: #3354652 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy calluna - 2011-02-14 3:19 PM I believe that is a martingale type collar. I use those with my dogs, although the martingale part isn't chain. That's the name I've heard used! I've heard good things about them, because they provide feedback by tightening a little, but won't over-tighten like standard choke chains. Plus, thick-necked dogs can't slip out of them. |
| 2011-02-14 4:51 PM in reply to: #3354567 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy ratherbeswimming - 2011-02-15 3:44 AM thebigb - 2011-02-14 2:41 PM I'll repeat what's been echoed here already, go get a competent trainer and work from there. It's by far the best money you could invest. Think of the trainer as a professional bike fitter for your dog. Best of luck. x2 I like this comparison! I like it too. and like bike fitters ... trainers run the gamut of recently-hired-bike-shop-tire-changers to top-of-the-line, very experienced, fits pro riders. No guarantees, but if I were inexperienced and looking for a trainer, I'd look for them holding a CPDT certification and APDT membership, and/or belong to NADOI. Do look those up |
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