Bike and running shoes for sprint
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2011-04-27 8:49 AM |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: Bike and running shoes for sprint Okay--another newbie bike question. For a sprint distance with a flat bike leg, is it worth the time in transition to change from bike to running shoes? In this case, there is a run of more than 100 meters between the bike racks and mounting line, going and coming. I'm sure the cool thing to do is attach the bike shoes to the pedals and then do the "flying mount/dismount" like the pros, but this race is in four days, I'm a total klutz, bikey is already at the shop getting checked up and boxed for its plane ride, and it isn't going to happen. So, shoe change worth it or not? My pedals allow me to ride either clipped in (on one side) or not (on the other). I usually train clipped in, but comfortable the other way too. Am I going to gain more on the bike from clipping in than I'd lose in transition changing shoes and gallumphing in/out of transition in my bike shoes? Strong runner, very mediocre biker, if it makes a difference. |
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2011-04-27 9:07 AM in reply to: #3468592 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint Hot Runner - 2011-04-27 8:49 AM Okay--another newbie bike question. For a sprint distance with a flat bike leg, is it worth the time in transition to change from bike to running shoes? In this case, there is a run of more than 100 meters between the bike racks and mounting line, going and coming. I'm sure the cool thing to do is attach the bike shoes to the pedals and then do the "flying mount/dismount" like the pros, but this race is in four days, I'm a total klutz, bikey is already at the shop getting checked up and boxed for its plane ride, and it isn't going to happen. So, shoe change worth it or not? My pedals allow me to ride either clipped in (on one side) or not (on the other). I usually train clipped in, but comfortable the other way too. Am I going to gain more on the bike from clipping in than I'd lose in transition changing shoes and gallumphing in/out of transition in my bike shoes? Strong runner, very mediocre biker, if it makes a difference. Carry your shoes in one hand, push the bike with the other and put the shoes on at the mount like (off to the side). Or just run the 100yds in your bike shoes. I don't find them to be that much slower than running barefoot. Personally, I would always choose to ride 'clipped in' (aka clipless), as that really impacts my ability to transfer power to the pedals. |
2011-04-27 9:20 AM in reply to: #3468592 |
Elite 3060 N Carolina | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint Personally, I would always choose to ride 'clipped in' (aka clipless), as that really impacts my ability to transfer power to the pedals. x2. |
2011-04-27 9:30 AM in reply to: #3468592 |
Extreme Veteran 525 | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint I've been happy with my SPD pedals and the recessed cleats in the shoes. Makes running/shuffling a lot easier. Sure it's not as light, flashy, or nice as other pedals but I'm not qualifying for Kona, like ever. |
2011-04-27 11:43 AM in reply to: #3468592 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint I put my cycling shoes on at the bike rack, then I run in my cycling shoes- leaning on my bike for support. May not be the very fastest- but I have yet to lose a podium spot by less than 10 seconds. i.e. I've only been on the AG podium once- a 3rd place finish in a small tri. I think 4th place was a minute and a half behind me. |
2011-04-27 12:17 PM in reply to: #3468592 |
Veteran 185 San Diego, Discovered by the Germans in 1904 | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint In your scenario I would go with running shoes. The reason I say this is because it sounds like you are leaning towards running shoes. Yep, you'll lose power, that's a given..... I'm going to use cages for my next sprint. Here's why: 1. Faster T1 time. I can get my running shoes on quicker than my cycling shoes. I don't wear sox for the bike leg, and I'll go sockless for the entire race in the cage scenario. I currently do not employ the tactic of having my cycling shoes already clipped in. Also, regardless of distance to mount line I think I'll be able to run faster to that point in running shoes. 2. Faster T2 time. Faster run from dismount, rack bike, helmet off, hat on, run out. I know I will lose a little power/time on the bike, but I think on a course >15 miles the transition time savings will be greater. Edited by ltoson 2011-04-27 12:21 PM |
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2011-04-27 12:27 PM in reply to: #3469238 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint ltoson - 2011-04-27 12:17 PM In your scenario I would go with running shoes. I'm going to use cages for my next sprint. Here's why: 1. Faster T1 time. I can get my running shoes on quicker than my cycling shoes. I don't wear sox for the bike leg, and I'll go sockless for the entire race in the cage scenario. I currently do not employ the tactic of having my cycling shoes already clipped in. Also, regardless of distance to mount line I think I'll be able to run faster to that point in running shoes. 2. Faster T2 time. Faster run from dismount, rack bike, helmet off, hat on, run out. I know I will lose a little power/time on the bike, but I think on a course >15 miles the transition time savings will be greater. I understand this line of reasoning, but I think if you take a look at the data, you'll come to a different conclusion. Using clipless pedals is supposed to increase your power output by 20-30%. Over a 15 mile course, that translates to several minutes. At worst, you lose 20-30 seconds switching out shoes. With a little bit of practice, it doesn't need to be difficult. I did a duathlon this weekend with a 3mi/12mi/3mi format, and I probably only lost 5-10 seconds switching out shoes, but benefited an enormous amount on the bike. |
2011-04-27 1:30 PM in reply to: #3468592 |
Veteran 364 Columbus | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint My first tri I went with running shoes as I did not have my bike shoes yet. T1 and T2 had quick times but the mount line was close to the Transition area. If it really does help 30% then it is worth it but if you somehow have similar times in running shoes vs bike shoes I would stick with running shoes until you are comfortable moving in different shoes |
2011-04-27 1:47 PM in reply to: #3468592 |
Member 448 Clemson, SC | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint You've got time to learn to mount with the shoes clipped in and dismount barefooted... It is not nearly as hard as you think. Just get some rubber bands and keep the left pedal up front. Then when you get to the line, you can stop, step left foot on left pedal, and sweep right foot over onto right pedal. It's the same motion you would do if you had your running shoes on and you wanted to get on your bike. You don't have to do the flying mount thing. Then on the way in, left pedal down, swing right foot over, and hop off... A 15 minute practice session or two should be all you need. This technique will also let you fly past any potential bottle necks as people are trying to clip in. |
2011-04-27 2:37 PM in reply to: #3469270 |
Veteran 185 San Diego, Discovered by the Germans in 1904 | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 10:27 AM Not saying that I don't believe you, but that seems pretty high. What data are you looking at? I understand this line of reasoning, but I think if you take a look at the data, you'll come to a different conclusion. Using clipless pedals is supposed to increase your power output by 20-30%. Over a 15 mile course, that translates to several minutes. At worst, you lose 20-30 seconds switching out shoes. With a little bit of practice, it doesn't need to be difficult. I did a duathlon this weekend with a 3mi/12mi/3mi format, and I probably only lost 5-10 seconds switching out shoes, but benefited an enormous amount on the bike. |
2011-04-27 2:46 PM in reply to: #3469632 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint ltoson - 2011-04-27 2:37 PM AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 10:27 AM Not saying that I don't believe you, but that seems pretty high. What data are you looking at? I understand this line of reasoning, but I think if you take a look at the data, you'll come to a different conclusion. Using clipless pedals is supposed to increase your power output by 20-30%. Over a 15 mile course, that translates to several minutes. At worst, you lose 20-30 seconds switching out shoes. With a little bit of practice, it doesn't need to be difficult. I did a duathlon this weekend with a 3mi/12mi/3mi format, and I probably only lost 5-10 seconds switching out shoes, but benefited an enormous amount on the bike. It was on the internet, so it must be true! A random google search brought up results anywhere from 10% to 50%. I felt the 20-30% was about the middle, but I'd agree that it seems high. Regardless, even 10% is a very significant amount of power output and extra speed. |
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2011-04-27 3:18 PM in reply to: #3469655 |
Veteran 185 San Diego, Discovered by the Germans in 1904 | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 12:46 PM ltoson - 2011-04-27 2:37 PM AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 10:27 AM Not saying that I don't believe you, but that seems pretty high. What data are you looking at? I understand this line of reasoning, but I think if you take a look at the data, you'll come to a different conclusion. Using clipless pedals is supposed to increase your power output by 20-30%. Over a 15 mile course, that translates to several minutes. At worst, you lose 20-30 seconds switching out shoes. With a little bit of practice, it doesn't need to be difficult. I did a duathlon this weekend with a 3mi/12mi/3mi format, and I probably only lost 5-10 seconds switching out shoes, but benefited an enormous amount on the bike. It was on the internet, so it must be true! A random google search brought up results anywhere from 10% to 50%. I felt the 20-30% was about the middle, but I'd agree that it seems high. Regardless, even 10% is a very significant amount of power output and extra speed. Ah yes. Google....making everyone a genius since 1998. My googling prowess has brought me this. In order to increase your speed by 10%, you need to increase your power by 33%...lets call it 30 for maths sake and to align it with the your much researched stated loss. So going from clipless to cages, I suffer a 30% loss of power which is a 10% decrease in speed. If I avg 20mph with clipless, I would avg 18mph with cages. yadda yadda yadda carry the two, divide by nine.....WOW 45 minutes clipless versus 49.5 minutes (roughly) with cages. Well unless I've done something wrong math wise, I'll be scratching the cage idea!! |
2011-04-27 4:55 PM in reply to: #3469737 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint ltoson - 2011-04-27 3:18 PM AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 12:46 PM ltoson - 2011-04-27 2:37 PM AndrewMT - 2011-04-27 10:27 AM Not saying that I don't believe you, but that seems pretty high. What data are you looking at? I understand this line of reasoning, but I think if you take a look at the data, you'll come to a different conclusion. Using clipless pedals is supposed to increase your power output by 20-30%. Over a 15 mile course, that translates to several minutes. At worst, you lose 20-30 seconds switching out shoes. With a little bit of practice, it doesn't need to be difficult. I did a duathlon this weekend with a 3mi/12mi/3mi format, and I probably only lost 5-10 seconds switching out shoes, but benefited an enormous amount on the bike. It was on the internet, so it must be true! A random google search brought up results anywhere from 10% to 50%. I felt the 20-30% was about the middle, but I'd agree that it seems high. Regardless, even 10% is a very significant amount of power output and extra speed. Ah yes. Google....making everyone a genius since 1998. My googling prowess has brought me this. In order to increase your speed by 10%, you need to increase your power by 33%...lets call it 30 for maths sake and to align it with the your much researched stated loss. So going from clipless to cages, I suffer a 30% loss of power which is a 10% decrease in speed. If I avg 20mph with clipless, I would avg 18mph with cages. yadda yadda yadda carry the two, divide by nine.....WOW 45 minutes clipless versus 49.5 minutes (roughly) with cages. Well unless I've done something wrong math wise, I'll be scratching the cage idea!! I used a similar approach using analyticcyling.com, and got fairly similar results. Even if you only assume a 10% increase in power from clipless pedals, the difference is enough to justify changing shoes. Now, cages are better than just platform pedals, but not by that much. |
2011-04-27 6:51 PM in reply to: #3468592 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Bike and running shoes for sprint Guess I will just go with the two pairs of shoes, then. I don't have cages. I have SPD pedals/shoes so they're not awful to run in, just awkward. If the pedals are worth even 10%, that might be 4 minutes over 20 km and there's no way I'd save that much time in transition--maybe 1-2 minutes max. Due to work committments, I had to drop the bike at the shop last night and pick it up Fri. PM, so I won't even see it out of the box until assembly on Saturday night--no time to learn to mount/dismount with shoes on bike. Maybe for my next race. Anyway, no Kona qualification here. Would be nice to place in my AG, but it's a big event and not sure what my chances are once bike enters the equation. This will be my first tri with a "real" bike! |