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Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
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Yes158 Votes - [58.52%]
No112 Votes - [41.48%]

2011-05-25 1:33 PM
in reply to: #3518394

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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
nickwisconsin - 2011-05-26 3:23 AM

bryancd - 2011-05-25 1:16 PM I am amazed at the poll results.

 

How so? 

I'll answer as well since I echoed Bryan.

It amazes me that not quite half think Lance is and has always been clean.

That's actually a separate issue from whether or not I share that opinion.

Then again, endurance athlete doesn't mean that one is well-versed in the science of PE and the intricacies of testing.



2011-05-25 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
powerman - 2011-05-25 12:46 PM
GODAWGS - 2011-05-25 11:09 AM

You have your opinion and I have my opinion.  Again, drugs to gain advantage in any sport is for losers. 

Why? Is spending more money than your competitor to gain advantage only for loosers? Every elite athlete uses every waking moment to gain advantage... medical treatment, what they eat, where they get it from, how much money they spend, who they train with, what equipment they use.... equipment has been a huge factor in advantage.... why don't we supply all tour riders with generic 20 lbs bikes supplied by one company issued by drawing?

So then sports medicine is for loosers? Cortizone shots, muscle relaxants, pain killers, anti inflamitories.... Anything that heals the body faster than nature, and allows the athlete to train harder than he/she could other wise, or perform better though an injury provides an advantage... that is all gaining advantage through drugs.

Not really arguing for drug use, but PROFFESIONAL sports is not as black and white as most like to belive. Anything done for money is far from pure and ethical.

Cortizone shots and anti inflamitories are not against the law. I don't think you can go into your local CVS and get steroids for bodybuilding.  If you want to use drugs and support others that do it that is your choice.  I do Triathlons for my health and not to win a medal or race.

 

2011-05-25 1:49 PM
in reply to: #3518415


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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
TriAya - 2011-05-25 1:33 PM
nickwisconsin - 2011-05-26 3:23 AM

bryancd - 2011-05-25 1:16 PM I am amazed at the poll results.

 

How so? 

I'll answer as well since I echoed Bryan.

It amazes me that not quite half think Lance is and has always been clean.

That's actually a separate issue from whether or not I share that opinion.

Then again, endurance athlete doesn't mean that one is well-versed in the science of PE and the intricacies of testing.

Did you expect the percentage to be lower or higher for those who think he has always been "clean"?

I think that a lot of people are equating positive drug testing with cheating.  In other words, with negative drug tests, there is no evidence that he has cheated, therefore, he must be clean. 

When it was just Landis alleging PEDs, I didn't pay much attention.   However, with Swart, Andreiu, Hamilton, and now possibly Hincapie as eyewitnesses to use of PED's, it is naive for me to believe that they are all lying and Lance is the only honest one here.  What do these guys have to gain?  I don't think book sales are behind this.  Who is going to read these books anyway??

I don't think all of these guys would lie considering the threat of legal action from the legal machine behind Lance Armstrong.  he is someone that I have admired for a variety of reasons, but I am a grown up now, and not surprised anymore when people held in high regard  actually have feet of clay.

2011-05-25 1:52 PM
in reply to: #3510357

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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion

Rather indifferent. I stopped looking at these people as heroes/role models growing up. And if he did do PEDs, I wouldn't be surprised and for me personally, indifferent.

A highly competitive cutthroat sport that has the potential to make $$$, and somehow he's beating everybody that's been dirty? My brain fizzles.

2011-05-25 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
nickwisconsin - 2011-05-25 12:49 PM

Did you expect the percentage to be lower or higher for those who think he has always been "clean?


Lower, a lot.
2011-05-25 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
GODAWGS - 2011-05-25 12:39 PM
powerman - 2011-05-25 12:46 PM
GODAWGS - 2011-05-25 11:09 AM

You have your opinion and I have my opinion.  Again, drugs to gain advantage in any sport is for losers. 

So then sports medicine is for loosers? Cortizone shots, muscle relaxants, pain killers, anti inflamitories.... Anything that heals the body faster than nature, and allows the athlete to train harder than he/she could other wise, or perform better though an injury provides an advantage... that is all gaining advantage through drugs.

Not really arguing for drug use, but PROFFESIONAL sports is not as black and white as most like to belive. Anything done for money is far from pure and ethical.

Cortizone shots and anti inflamitories are not against the law. I don't think you can go into your local CVS and get steroids for bodybuilding.  If you want to use drugs and support others that do it that is your choice.  I do Triathlons for my health and not to win a medal or race.

 

Just taking your example to the extreme... you said drugs, you didn't specify.... but I know what you mean.

Rules are rules and it is as much a part of competing as training is. You follow them, or you are penalized. Part of the mental game.



2011-05-26 2:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion

The guy came back from the brink of being dead stripped all muscles in his body down to almost nothing.  Then came back from barely walking with the best coaches and trainers devoting himself to only cycling.  Then on top of that a team of the best domestics in the world were placed around him to win one race for the year. 

Did he use illegal PED's?  posibly some that became illegal but no more then any of the other riders who were all using the same ones.  I dont think it would be possible to make it through that many tests without getting caught at some point. 

Why can we not just leave him as being a amazing inspirational story instead of falling into the world of the French and putting everyone quilty until proven innocent.

thats my two cents

2011-05-26 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
3Aims - 2011-05-23 10:05 PM

I have not dug through all 7 pages, but this am on our sports radio show they said the following:

If you take the top 10 riders from the 7 TdF's that Lance won, that's 70 total spots, 41 of those spots are riders that have admitted to taking PEDs or were convicted of using PEDs.  Lance is not in the 41.  Crazy. 

So doesn't that mean 29 of them were not convicted or didn't confess?  Why couldn't Lance be in that percentage?  Just saying....

2011-05-28 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion

FYI the director of the Swiss Lab Tyler had said 'buried' Lances 2001 Tour de Suiss positive says he did meet with Lance Armstrong and then-U.S. Postal team director Johann Bruyneel to review EPO testing methods, soon after four anonymous samples from the 2001 Tour de Suisse had been labeled as “suspicious”, but denies he buried the test. 

Lances lawyer said neither Lance nor Johann had any memory of the meeting.

The lab director stated he deposed this information to the US Grand Jury.

 

Blair

2011-05-28 6:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
This is a coj thread for those who wish to argue without facts about somone you don't know.
2011-05-28 9:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
I have not read all 8 pages of posts, but regardless of the issue, does anyone see this as a witch hunt?  Lance has done SO MUCH GOOD with respect to cancer awareness and I think that is ultimately will be the important legacy.  I think he'd agree.  If Livestrong raised 1 less dollar as a result of the negative press because someone who most likely has no real grasp of whats going on anyway decides not to donate, that would be sad, IMHO.


2011-05-28 10:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
17281posse - 2011-05-28 10:33 PM I have not read all 8 pages of posts, but regardless of the issue, does anyone see this as a witch hunt?  Lance has done SO MUCH GOOD with respect to cancer awareness and I think that is ultimately will be the important legacy.  I think he'd agree.  If Livestrong raised 1 less dollar as a result of the negative press because someone who most likely has no real grasp of whats going on anyway decides not to donate, that would be sad, IMHO.
I couldn't agree more!  If this takes anything away from the Livestrong Foundation it would be a disaster.
2011-05-28 11:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion

Lance rode on terms with the rest of the peleton. Nothing more be said.

He is the best stage cyclist from 99-05. I've no issues.

Cheers. 

 

Want to challenge him on moral grounds.

New court of conscience.

Until the science is ahead of the dopers penalizing one doper over another who is not caught is a little messed up.

Lance used his platform to advance himsef and cancer research. I am all good with that.

I assume they are all dopers and go from there. I still love sports. And ya, that's probably f===== up but I love the extraordinary, even if it's closer to our reality than we imagined.

2011-05-30 2:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion
Tom Demerly. - 2011-05-20 2:37 PM

A journalist accused Anquetil of doping. He openly admitted it. A famous quote of his was, "A cyclist cannot race on mineral water alone".

Reminded me of these classic quotes from Fausto Coppi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fausto_Coppi#Drugs

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