Christian inspiration for the season... (Page 3)

Big over generalization. Condemning Christians as intolerant. Don't confuss standing up for ones faith as intolerance. An argument that I hate, (one that I am not accussing you of making, nor do I think your previous statment is such an argument) is non-christians using the "turn the other cheek" argument to imply that Christians should not defend their faith or fight against secularization of society. As Christians for far too long we have sat by silently as secular groupd have instituted an onslaught upon the public display of our faith. All faiths have been given more protection than Christianity, as well as secularism. Now, Christians are standing up and saying we are done with this. When this occurs secularists use a divise to accuss Christians of being intolerant. ITs a rhetorical device used to try to keep Christians silent. It's this reasons that I support the Thomas Moore Law Center!!!
Remember the establishement clause includes a free exercise clause also!!

I had a tooth pulled and I'm on pain meds right now, my spelling stinks in the above and I'm not going to fix it. Maybe the above makes sence maybe it doesn't. I'm gonna go bleed now.

Edited by ASA22 2005-12-02 10:25 AM

Just one other little thing, and this is probably going to bristle hairs...there is right and wrong. There are things that are right and things that are wrong. As Christians our primary guide for this is the Bible. I have read a great deal about "tolerance" in threads on this board and in writtings in other places; it is a watered down term. The teachings of Christ are not about tolerance, I challenge you to find a passage in the Gospels where Christs talks of tolerating someone. The central teaching of Christ is 1) Christ is the Messiah 2) It is through him, and only through him, that you can obtain ever lasting life 3) Love is perimount.

These are important concepts because Christ makes it clear that unbelievers will not obtain everlasting life, or sit at the right hand of the Father. There was never any tolerance preached on this point. It was black and white.

This does not mean of course that as Christians we should persecute non-christians. To the contrary Christ made it clear that it was of the utmost importance to love one another as he has loved us. And he loved the entire world.

As Christains we should not tolerate non-christians. We should Love them. We should have concern for them, we should seek to bring them into the "body" and seek 'unity" within the body.

Think of the difference between "tolerance" and "love" in this respect. Would you rather be tolerated by your spouse or loved by your spouse? If you have children, if you see them doing something that is dangerous to them physically do you tolerate it or do you discipline them? If you discipline them why do you do it? Most parents would say it's out of love. Boundries, laws, distingushing right from wrong isn't tolerance it's love.

This idea that to be Christain means you must be tolerant is an idea born of humanism. It has crept into christian thinking and actually replaced the true teaching of love. Now when we speak of tolerance we hear things like... 'you have to tolerate other'...'Christian need to be more tolerant' That diverts attention from the true message which is Christ is the messiah, without him the obtainment of eternal life is impossible and we are called to love one another above all else.

If things are done out of Love rather than tolerance the world would be a much better place. Tolerance is at best a passive, neutral feeling. Love...well love is what it is. I can easily ignore someone that is hurting themselves if all I feel for that person is tolerance, but if I truely love than I cannot ignore that person. With tolerance great wrongs can go unnnoticed, but with Love great wrongs cannot be ignored.

Please don't mis-understand me. Don't confuse my lessening of the need for tolerance as a cold heart or as preaching that non-christians should be flogged. To the contrary, treating anyone poorly, badly, or with illwill or malice is clearly contrary to Christs teaching of Love being the greatest comandment. But by engaging in a mentality that hinges on tolerance allows us to accept things that are clearly wrong. We become Christains with an idea that as long as someone is doing there own thing and not hurting anyone else we can tolerate them. That is not what Christ taught, it is contraty to the Gospels.

Good people should be praised, christain or non-christain. Bad people should be punished, christian or non-christian, but acts alone are not sufficient.

It should be our Love for our fellow mans eternal soul that leads us as Christians to not tollerate their non-beleif. It is this Love of Christ and his comandment to love each other that we must acknoledge that ALL men are sinful, and only through a relationship with Christ can we be saved. It is out of Love, not tolerance that Christ gave the the disciples the Great Commision. And this Great Commission to "go and make disciples of all the nations" is incombent upon todays Christians as well. This great commission cannot be done out of tolerance, if it is tolerance that is the central teaching than the Great Commission would be useless. Why do it? Why not just tolerate those that are non-beleivers? No, the teaching of Love is why Christ directed the dispiles to go forth. It is love for every man, woman and child that they may know the "truth" of the Lord Christ and have ever lasting life. It is Love of their soul, of their future eternity.

Paul also tells us quit clearly what Love is and what love isn't, If you've ever been to a wedding you've heard it.

uuuhhhhh,,,,





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Asa, I agree with everything you have written. Love is paramount. Tolerance is weak, I want love, understanding and respect and I freely give all three as is my Christian duty and honor.

But as Christians we are NOT entitled to judge others. Period. Find me a place in the Bible where God or Jesus gives man/woman the right to judge or condemn. We do have the right and the obligation to study scripture and pray and lead ourlives as close to Jeus' model as we can, but we are not obligated to call out others on their lack of such action. To Other Christians, we are obligated, but we are to do it with love.

Finally, Mel, I am so sorry I was (and I guess still am) a part of the hijack of your truly glorious and loving post.

That's exactly right, Hollis. But it's a fact that many, man Chistians do, by their words and actions, judge. It irks me to no end that people use the example of Christ to point out to others where they are wrong in their lives. Instead, we should be doing a better job of examining our own lives.

As Christians, we have the responsibility to evangelize, and in my opinion people use that as an excuse to judge. We should be talking about what we believe, and how Christ has affected our lives. But in so many cases, that leads to condemnation of others; condemnation of their beliefs, their choices and/or thier lifestyles. It truly may not be meant as condemnation, but I can tell you it is how it is perceived. Not in all cases, of course, but in many.

Now that's funny.

That is funny.  Makes me what to lay on pancake on my cat's head when I get home.

I think the three of us are agreeing but simply arguing symantics. I beleive as Christians we do have a right and an obligation to point out when and where people fall short. Certainly Paul in Galatians diddn't hold back any punches. (The entire Epistle is a refute of Judaizers that were teaching contrary to the teaching of Christ.) However, the problem with all too many Christians is that it is not done out of Love, but rather out of a sence of "holier than thou" attitude. The other problem is that those that condemn do so without the understanding that we are all sinful. Without this it leads to individuals believing that they are "better", "less sinful" than another, and thereby more deserving of Gods love, or a better Christian. (Simply look at Christians that shout horrible hateful things at gays. It confounds me how someone can preach hate in the name of God, it's like they haven't bothered to read the instruction manual, the Bible.)
That of course is twisted. We are all sinners, we all fall short, none of us can live up to the unconditional love which God has granted us. In this we are all equal. To think that somehow any one, believer or non-bleiver, is more deserving of Gods love is whacked.

I don't think this issue needs much more debate, we all seem to be on generally the same page, maybe just not defining our termonolgy strictly enough. Its at least nice to have a debate amoung Christians as to what is the best way to treat people in a Christain manner. That's pretty cool.

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