Walk-Run on the Long Run (Page 2)

lots of coaches, lots of athletes, lots of opinions...

Given that the run/walk helps me stay healthy and happy, I'm a believer. Bear can say anything he likes, obviously, and I know there are others who see things his way on this, but given that Mike has a TON of professsional experience with a wide variety of athletes and situations, Iwould tend to defer to that for the sheer diversity of his experience.   Plan on "growing out" of it if you see it that way. But at the Beginner/BT level, DON'T GET HURT becasue your mind writes checks your body can't cash.

regarding: "This comes up occasionally, and I don't mean to denigrate anyone using run/walk. I've done marathons using both methods, and I'm decidedly faster (by 20 minutes) just running, and find it to be more satifying an accomplishment. Truth be told, people run/walk because it's easier, not because it's faster. "

Well you sure sound denigrating to me... YOU're decidely faster, that's great. I am decidedly faster when I take walk breaks, and I find it to be very satifsying. And since you are not a run/walker, please don't tell me that I do it bc it's easier, I do it be it is the fastest, most efficient way to get me more fit, and to the finish line. That last line smacks of elitism/denigration.

 Well Bare,

The original poster who had the question on this thread was talking about traininig. 

But, since you brought it up, what are you professional credentials to back up your comments?

Jim

Possum- as I said, didn't mean to be insulting, perhaps a better wording would have been "many people run/walk because it's easier, not because it's faster. " I'm sure through years of trying both methods you've decided that run/walk is faster for you. Just as I have decided the opposite.

Cruse: I don't remember having "brought it up," but this is my hobby, not my profession. I base my opinion on years of running experience, conversations with hundreds of marathoners, and one dozen marathon training cycles utilizing a variety of different programs. I'm also an amateur cycling coach for a charitable organization, and I've sat through the running coach certification of the same organization (taught by Jack Daniels). And your professional credentials are?

mike- so you recommend run/walk to all of your coached athletes?

Bare,

Go ahead you can have the last word.

This is a completely different topic and I'm sure in part due to another thread that you and I posted on awhile back.  That particular topic was medical in nature and objective evidence is the standard that we use.  Beating your head into a wall repeatedly might make one person feel better, but telling other people that it's the proper way to do things because it "works for you" just doesn't hold water.  We use objective measures and studies to apply something to a population as a whole.

Now, that was for a medical discussion and NOT for this one.  I admit that I'm fully out of my element in this discussion and am learning from all of this.  I simply replied because of this one comment you made.

Certainly haven't told "other posters that their opinions based on their training, experience and observations lack merit and credibility." Not by any means. I certainly respect Mike's experience and observations, just want to point out that they are anecdotal observations, and that there can be found equal number of anecdotal observations supporting the other side. Also want to point out that you don't see a lot of "fast" marathoners doing run/walk. In my mind, that certainly serves to question Galloway's premise and claims that "Most runners will record significantly faster times when they take walk breaks." If that is true, then why aren't the faster marathoners using walk breaks?

Here's an interesting article by Scott Douglas:

http://scottdouglas.biz/whopperwatch.htm

Scott is co-author, with Pete Pfitzinger, of Advanced Marathoning, which is a well-respected, well-explained, scientific marathon training approach.

As a 52-year-old with a linebacker's build, a creaky knee, and five years removed from open heart surgery, studies focused on the performance of elite marathoners and other athletes don't seem to hold much relevance for me.  I would love to see a scientific study done on my peer group, but I don't think there's much chance of that... 

My impression of Galloway's method has always been that it is more focused on helping runners finish races rather than on outright performance.    Looking at it that way, being able to finish is a measure of performance.  Nothing at all wrong with that.  What's the saying - "to finish first, you first must finish" ?   As Possum said, the vast majority of us are MOPers and BOPers.  My goals are always to finish and try to better my own personal performance.  If I were just to measure my performance against others, then it would get very discouraging very quickly. 

Mark 

Wow. This got pretty deep. I got no beefs with anybody!!

I am an average athlete, have no credentials and very little experience, but the run/walk is working for me. I started out only running because walking during a run was for wimps (Old School). I noticed that I was getting little irritating injuries that felt like that a large one was around the corner. In addition, I was fighting a losing endurance battle with increasing time and/or distance. I don't have either issue now. I am not getting a commission or blindly run/walking into this either. I am simply giving it a try and so far have achieved desired results reported in the book.

Elite marathoners are just that and most likely do not need to walk to achieve elite results, however, at some point they walked during training and possibly during a race to build up their endurance and to simply finish. Elite = genetics, natural ability, thousands of hours logged and all the time needed to train. Luxury items from my side of the tracks! The run/walk may not be for the elites, but neither is a golf lesson for Tiger at my local public course. With that said, there are more ways than one to achieve results in every endeavor.

Galloway has a beginner program, finish program, weight loss progam and programs for achieving time goals. My main goal is to get through training without injury because it is too easy to just simply quit. I am working the beginner with an eye on time once I become totally comfortable with endurance and since I am a grunt by nature, it is just a matter of time before I can work on time. If I hit 3:15, the debate is over!!!!! (I was joking)

Just to toss this in...

"You will lose less time walking than you think. I once ran a 2:29 marathon, walking through every aid station. My son Kevin ran 2:18 and qualified for the Olympic Trials employing a similar strategy. And Bill Rodgers took four brief breaks (tying a shoe on one of them) while running 2:09 and winning the 1975 Boston Marathon. Walking gives your body a chance to rest, and you'll be able to continue running more comfortably." -- Hal Higdon

"Just to toss this in..." - you mean "conversation over" -  :-)

 Thanks Kel. Moving on to HR training....

So what's this aerobic threshold thing I've been reading about

Of course I have to point out that ol' Hal has run faster marathons than the one he cites here, without walk breaks.

Yeah, I read Joe's article...we had a bit of a discussion on it the past couple days.  Seems most of the confusion comes from the fact that it isn't a standard term like LT.  There seems to be several different definitions of aerobic threshold and if you have several people in on a conversation, each with a different definition, it gets interesting.  Once we all got on the same page as to what we were talking about I think everyone generally agreed on what I suggested the original poster should do for his base work. 

Yes, and in a universe as large as we are analyzing, that "sampling of 3" are collectively referred to as "anecdotes."

While that blurb notes that Rodgers took shoe-tying, not walking, breaks, he also ran at least one faster marathon than the 1975 Boston. So, with an anecdotal example in which two of those three did not run their fastest marathons, that blurb is hardly "conversation over."

Mr Bear -

 I do believe that you asked for some examples of Elites walk/running. They were provided to you. That is still not enough. I don't know what else you want, but whatever it is, you'll just ask for more, I'm sure. You are arguing just to argue and I honestly don't have any more answers for you. I only know what I know, and I have seen this method work. If my word isn't good enough  for you, that's ok. I have plenty of athletes who have gotten improvements using my strategies and as long as they are happym, stay injury free and continue to improve, I am happy for them.

I don't have anymore to contribute to this thread, so happy running and may 2006 bring you a PR whichever method you use. May the wind always be at your back. Peace.