General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Yet another HRM question. Rss Feed  
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2006-04-26 10:32 AM

Member
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Parrish, FL
Subject: Yet another HRM question.
Hello, all,

I don’t post much because:

A) I’m just starting out, in fact I don’t begin my full routine until this coming Monday, May 1, 2006, hehehe.
B) Darn near everything I’ve thought to ask has already been asked and either answered or no one has an answer.

However, I still need a little advice on the purchase of an HRM... and believe me when I say I’ve read through every single thread/post in this link:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/search/query.asp?actio...

And I’m not sure if I’m more confused than I was at the start or not, LOL

What I’ve decided I’d really like is something with a GPS so that I can run/bike where ever I’d like and know what my distance etc is, without having to “map it out” with my car.

I THINK that leaves me with the Timex Bodylink and the Garmin 301/305... unless I’ve missed this feature in other models.

Now it’s my understanding that the Garmin can’t be used when swimming... and I’d really like to keep track of my HR while swimming... I know it’s somewhat cumbersome to do so, but that it can be done.

However, it’s also my understanding that the Timex has lousy/cumbersome data collecting and uploading to PC features... not to mention needing to purchase a separate device to do so.

Are my above conclusions accurate? Is the Timex really the only option for me if I’d really like GPS capability AND be able to use it while swimming? And I’d just have to “suck it up” and deal with the issues regarding uploading to PC?

I also may be suffering from information overload since I’m beginning to forget which HRM’s have which features, hehehe.

I’d like GPS. Ala Timex and Garmin

I’d like to be able to swim with it. Ala Timex and Polar

I’d like to see both HR output as a number and a percentage of max HR. Ala Polar A5

I’d like to see calories burned even if not 100% accurate. Ala Polar S610i

I’d like alarms telling me when I leave various target HR zones.

I’d like to have the function that tells you when to step things up in your planned workout. I think I read somewhere in that list of links that there are functions that allow you to program in a workout and it buzzes to let you know when to step it up or down? Maybe? Am I remembering correctly?

I guess, essentially I want it ALL And yes I’d like it for low $$ but I know that won’t happen, LOL.

Any help or guidance here?

While I’m only just starting my Triathlon training, I’ve been working out, (to lose weight as a recently diagnosed Type II Diabetic), for the last 4 months and using the HR monitors on the stationary bikes and treadmills at the gym, and I like knowing what my HR is etc. Some here may, very accurately, advise that I just buy a sub $50 HRM since as a newbie I don’t need all the bells and whistles... they’re most likely correct However, I’m a gadget nerd and know full well that ultimately I’d work my way up to needing these... frankly as a gadget nerd I KNOW I’ll use them all right away... notice I didn’t say NEED them right away... just USE them right away, hehehe.

Ok, I’ve rambled enough. Thank you very much for any help and guidance with this.

Take care,
Lou



2006-04-26 10:50 AM
in reply to: #406969

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.

Given your wants, I'd go with the Garmin 301 or Polar 625x. 

Most people that have it, seem to love the Garmin.  HR on the swim is really not that useful and hard to use.  If you really want to do that, then the Polar is your best bet.  I own this and like it.  No GPS, but the footpod and bike sensor add-ons allow you to have speed and distance no matter where you are.  Calibration may be a bit more "fickle" than with the GPS but I've had pretty good success with mine for the most part.  And the only time I use the HR monitor during swimming is races when I already have it on and it's under a wetsuit.  In the pool, it's not worth the inconvienience of dealing with the chest strap.  And pace is just as/more useful for training there.  I do wear the watch in the pool to record my splits, etc.

2006-04-26 11:03 AM
in reply to: #406969

Master
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Shreveport, LA
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
A few comments:

1. I wouldn't worry so much about the HR in swimming. Put HRMs in the water may be OK, but they won't last as long. The easy thing to do is to stop and measure you HR after you stop your set. Take 10 secs, count the beats, multiply by 10, and there you go. The Triathlete Training Bible has a chart that relates HR and Speed so that you can correlate different levels of effort with your speed to get %HR. This is a pretty good assumption, because things don't change much in a pool. The main factor for a rise or fall in HR would be your getting sick, better fitness level, etc. So just use this and check it ever now and then.

2. If it were me, I would go with the Garmin 301. They are significantly cheaper than the 305. A little more cumbersome, but still MUCH CHEAPER (like ~$200 cheaper). So if you really wanted to know your HR in the water. Buy the 301 and then a cheap HRM (~$40-$50) just for swimming (though I still recommend not using one while swimming).

2006-04-26 11:05 AM
in reply to: #407000

Member
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25
Parrish, FL
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Thank you very much for the reply... again... information overload... I'd forgotten about the bike computers and footpods giving distance info /slaps his forehead DUH !! hehehe.

I guess my main reason for wanting to know my HR while swimming... and I do swim in a pool with a regular ol' bathing suit... for now... is that I've become so accustomed to knowing my HR and adjusting my pace accordingly, that the thought of not knowing is aggravating

More than once at my local Y I've had to use a machine where the HRM didn't work on it and it frustrated the bejeezus out of me, LOL.

I know about perceived effort or whatever it's called exactly, but I'm a software engineer by trade and simply MUST know things EXACTLY /chuckle A "guesstimate" based on how I feel and whether or not I can talk isn't accurate enough for me. It SHOULD be I know... but I can't help it... I have to KNOW

Maybe, like a drug addict getting off drugs, I can learn to force myself to not know what my HR is exactly while swimming... can I go through the withdrawal DT's doing that?

So, maybe I don't need the GPS since I could use a foot pod, and I would prefer easier PC uploading features... so that pretty much nixes the Garmin. Though I read a LOT of good things about the Garmin as well. There's still the Timex Bodylink to consider... it has GPS and can be used in a pool.

I'll take a closer look at that and the Polar your recommend to see which has most of the other features I'd like.

Thank you again for the help.

Take care,
Lou
2006-04-26 12:19 PM
in reply to: #406969

Member
27
25
Parrish, FL
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Thank you as well Mnewton... I was writing my reply while you were posting I think.

I'm curious as to why the Garmin 301 vs the Timex Bodylink? That's assuming of course you know much about the Timex which you might not actually.

From what I've gathered between the two the differences are mainly that the Timex can go in water and has a more difficult PC uploading functionality and the Garmin can not go in water but has seemingly the easiest and most user friendly PC upload features... funny how that happens, eh? Maybe I could stick them in a blender and get the best of both worlds

I'll take a closer look at those two as well as the Polar 625. This is helping me narrow my list, which in turn decreases the information overload.

Thanks again folks.

Take care,
Lou
2006-04-26 12:23 PM
in reply to: #407117

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Runner
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Well, if I'm not mistaken, with the Garmin, it's all one unit. You have the strap, and the receiver you wear on your arm or whatever. That's it.

With the Timex, it's about 4 or 5 different devices. There's the strap, the receiver, the datalink, the S+D device, and I think there's something else in there too, for some reason. Anyways. So, you can have it all in one device, or in several devices.

As for the needing to know. I can understand your frustration on that one. If I have to travel, I end up running based on time. God knows what I'm actually doing for pace or distance. It can be frustrating.


2006-04-26 12:34 PM
in reply to: #406969

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, Texas
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
I'd recommend getting a Garmin 305 and a cheap Polar HRM. The 305 can be had for $265 (from ZMarine) and you can get a Polar S120 (with 60 laps) for < $80. You could also add a speed/cadence sensor for the 305 for about $40.

You can do the same with the Garmin 301, but it does have an abandoned (many say problematic) HRM and inferior GPS receiver to the 305. Don't get me wrong, I really like the 301 , but buying a 301 now would be like buying a new computer and getting a Pentium III with no USB ports. Sure, you will save money and it probably can do all you want it to, but is it really worth it?

The Garmin GPS and Timex GPS are IMHO in two separate classes. I'm not talking about reception as much as I'm talking about data. The Timex will give you speed and distance and the s/w may (does the data recorder record speed samples??) even allow you to graph them, but you're still limited to just speed and distance information. The Garmins will upload the entire GPS tracks from your run/bike. With this, there are other software ( SportTracks, MotionBased, and Training Peaks are a few) you can use to give you more bells and whistles of your information.

If you do want to go the Timex route, you might want to look into the "Trail" model as I *think* it has a more accurate GPS and does alititude as well.

The Polar 625x would be a good way to go as well, but it can get quite pricey with the extras (speed sensor, cadence sensor, IR receiver) if you need them.
Polar also has a RS200sd that will do speed/distance with a footpod for about $180, but the analysis software (web server) leaves much to be desired for analysis.
2006-04-26 12:37 PM
in reply to: #407135

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Runner
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Additionally, from what I've seen, the footpods are nowhere near as accurate in terms of distance as the GPS anyways.
2006-04-26 12:52 PM
in reply to: #407140

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, Texas
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Scout7 - 2006-04-26 12:37 PM

Additionally, from what I've seen, the footpods are nowhere near as accurate in terms of distance as the GPS anyways.


Depends on how/where they are used. Footpods do not depend on anything externally (ie satellites), but do need to be calibrated, which can change when stride changes (ie chand of pace or terrain) from that at what it was calibrated against. GPS doesn't work worth a damn when it can't get a signal which can happen in trees and around tall buildings.

Under ideal conditions, both are extremely accurate.

The biggest disadvantages for me of the footpod is that 1) You have to change the batteries every 20 hours, 2) the battery will probably die in the middle of your long run (Murphy's law), and 3) Rotating shoes would be a real pain.

I could live with #3, but #1 & #2 has kept me from trying it out.
2006-04-26 1:34 PM
in reply to: #407160

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Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.

I could live with #3, but #1 & #2 has kept me from trying it out.

FWIW, takes less than a minute to change the battery (1 standard 'AAA') or swith the pod to different shoes.  And it's never died on me during a run since it has a weak battery indicator that lets you know it won't make it much longer and you can replace it before it does die.

2006-04-26 1:34 PM
in reply to: #406969

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Expert
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New Orleans
Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.

I've had the S625X for a few months now, and here's some observations that may or may not help:

- Does a very good job of monitoring HR, i.e. maybe once or twice have I lost signal. And I don't use that buh-bump gel or anything, just wet it before I put the strap on.

- It's got more functions than I'll probably ever know about. It seems like every day I fnd out that there's something else it can do. Being a software engineer, you'd probably have a ball with that aspect of it.

- If you don't have a computer with an infared (sp?) sensor, you have to buy the external USB sensor, which runs about $50. I didn't realize that until after I had already bought it. I did get a good deal on mine though, $250, so the extra $50 didn't hurt as bad.

- The foot pod: it works. It does have to be calibrated, and like someone else said, if you change your form at all, you have to recalibrate it. But it's easy to calibrate. One feature I really like is the auto-lap feature. You can set your auto-lap to whatever distance you want. I use 1 mile. So when I run with my foot pod I don't have to mark my splits or anything. It automatically starts a new lap when I hit one mile. I know most do this, but it's easy to figure out on the 625.

- I've used it in the pool and it works ok. The problems I have are that it doesn't always pick up the transmitter and the strap slides down whenever I kick off the wall. By tightening it up, I've almost fixed that problem. And as for it not picking up the signal, it usually will, I just have to play with it a little bit.

These are just some of the notes I've had on it. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it. And I'm still learning it. Good luck.

 



Edited by jjweav 2006-04-26 1:35 PM


2006-04-26 5:17 PM
in reply to: #406969

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Subject: RE: Yet another HRM question.
Long time user of the 625x for which I also bought the speed and cadence sensors for my bike (a big plus, the Garmin 305 has a cadence as well but they are on even more back order than the units themselves). I've also just bought a 305. Will echo some others thoughts and add my own:-

- 625x is awesome tool which just takes some time to understand
- Can use in all three legs of a tri and easy to change from one mode to the next
- Just for logging miles and having a rough idea of pace the foot pod works really well, I also like the idea vs the GPS that I can use it on the treadmill as well and still capture all the data (I'm a data nut! Seeing all those colored squares on my Polar software cheers me up and helps me pull my training gear on)

On the flip side, I'm becoming more serious about my running so have bought the 305
- Force me to stop copping out and taking the treadmill option, nothing beats running outside
- I wanted a more accurate pace measure, 305 is both more accurate and has more tools (Autolap past a position) etc to help me with this as I get more serious about running (shooting for marathon)

- Will keep the 625 for the bike and also for treadmill, circuit classes etc

On using a HRM in the pool...
- I've tried Polar (old type strap and new type strap), and I've tried the Garmin and unless you're wearing a top (ie tri suit) they all come off eventually no matter how hard I try.
- Like getting more serious on my running, I am getting more serious about my swimming with more of my sessions in a squad training environment (so training on pace anyway). By learning to use the pace clock in the pool and using it to pace myself when I'm not in a sqaud I'm getting a much better feeling of controlling my pace - I just broke 20m for 1000m for the first time and negative split it - I think a lot of that is down to accurate pacing.
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