General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim coach or self coach? Rss Feed  
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2011-11-13 9:42 PM

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Subject: Swim coach or self coach?

I plan on racing in my first triathlon next year and my main weakness and concern is swimming. 

The triathlon will be olympic distance in late august but as of right now, my max swim distance without stopping is about 250m, after which I feel completely out of breath. I've run a couple of half marathons before (last one was two weeks ago with 1:56 total time) so I'm thinking it's more of the swimming technique that I'm missing as opposed to physical endurance. 

My gym has personal trainers which teach swimming lessons or I can get sessions at one of those specialized triathlon/swimming centers but both of these are kind of expensive. I just found out about Total Immersion, which is a lot cheaper, but I'm not sure how well it works since there's no feedback like what you get with coaches. Since my goal is to just be able to swim a mile, regardless of time, and I have 9+ months to train, would TI and self coaching be sufficient or should I err on the safe side and get lessons?

Forgot to add, I've been swimming for the past couple of years but only recreationally. 



Edited by weizilla 2011-11-13 9:48 PM


2011-11-13 10:48 PM
in reply to: #3900705

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

As a nearly life long non-swimmer, I found private lessons were the way to go. 

2011-11-13 10:53 PM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

I have the Total Immersion DVD and found it to be a very good source to start learning a proper stroke.  I couldn't swim over 300 yards and had a coach for a few sessions.  But they spent more time tweaking my arms and kicks, which after a month, still didn't help.  The Total Immersion lessons are more about streamlining and ease, which I really think is my most major problem.

The DVD is set up with tons of drills, so you can develop what is right and what it wrong.  I watch a lesson, then transfer notes to a card and take it to the pool.  I think this has helped much more than a coach.

And the community at totalimmersion.net is really helpful.  Terry Laughlin, who developed the program often goes to the forums to give advice.  Plus, I see many users post videos of themselves swimming and get some great feedback.  Lastly, you can search for Total Immersion coaches or people who are familiar with the techniques based on where you live.  There is a forum section just for this.

2011-11-13 11:18 PM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
Go for a coach, just to get the basics right, in the long run it will save you a lot of time (not just in a race) and effort. Swimming is the most technical of all the disciplines and a small adjustment in stoke, kick can have a huge impact. I normally go to a coach for 2 months of the year, (start of season) just to sort out all the bad things that crept into my stroke during the year  Twice a week, and by then I normally am in the front bunch of the swim. 
2011-11-14 3:18 AM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
Get a one on one coach for a few sessions no matter what. Swimming is the one place where this will pay off not only immediately but for the rest of your swimming time as well.

Total Immersion is a great way to get started but even with that it's one hell of a lot harder to self diagnose than it is for an outsider to tell you what you need to work on. After you have an idea about that, then you start in on the TI instructions.

Another thing to do is join a masters swimming program. Quite a few of the swimmers there are coaches and most of them will give you a hand or an eye as you go along.

2011-11-14 5:38 AM
in reply to: #3900705

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
Welcome to BT! There is no substitute for a good swimming instructor. If that's not an option financially, then TI is ok for correcting the most common flaws in beginning swimmers: balance and streamlining. If you decide to go the self-coached route, video yourself then compare your video with one of a textbook swimmer. You will be surprised at the things you see yourself doing that you couldn't feel. You can also post the video here on BT, but you'll likely have to weed through the responses to determine which advice should be followed.


2011-11-14 5:50 AM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
If you're like me you can fiimd a way to muscle through .9 miles if you tain hard enough. I started the same way and every week i added 50-100m and eventually made the distance. I did private lessons this season (8 30 min sessions, every other week classes) along with watching videos and reading training drills. Assuming you can spare the $300 (what the package cost me) that is my recommendation. I swim much faster, with less energy and can go alot longer.
2011-11-14 9:49 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

Also new to the sport, and I found this link in another post for a swimming program:

http://ruthkazez.com/swimming/ZeroTo1mile.html

Just started last week, and so far so good. I bought TI and will be implementing a few things, but do not plan to follow it completely until i am done with the program (6 weeks); then will focus on TI for another 8 weeks before my first race.

If you have the means and time, a coach or a master swimmers program might be the best way, but I have to train at 6 am by myself, so this works for now

2011-11-14 10:13 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
I attempted to teach myself to swim using TI for several months without much motivation or success before breaking down and getting some lessons. 
2011-11-14 10:32 AM
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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

Get the lessons.

I am N=1, but it sounds like I'm not alone. I started swimming less than a year ago. I had no lessons. I swam a lot. I did nothing but swim for a month. I logged what I thought to be impressive mileage, especially for a brand newb.

Then sometime over summer I noted my times here. I'm very large and slow in all 3, so I thought nothing of it. But as I have learned, in swimming, weight shouldn't hold me back. 2:30/100yards at every distance means a flaw in my stroke.

Turns out I have several. I have had difficulty scheduling swimming coaching, but this winter it's finally happening. I expect that by spring, my improvement should be massive.

The whole year I was not finding out my problems. I plan on only about 3-4 sessions, with several weeks between, then take it from there. I wish I had the foresight to do this last winter, but hey, in my story, all progress forward is massive.

Get lessons. You won't regret it. FWIW, my coach is a fan of TI, and said it's a good base, but to really get analysis of what you're getting right, you need the up close. (Funny thing is, he's not exactly hard selling me on coaching, as I've been the one begging to get a session going.)

2011-11-14 10:48 AM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

I've run a couple of half marathons before (last one was two weeks ago with 1:56 total time) so I'm thinking it's more of the swimming technique that I'm missing as opposed to physical endurance. My gym has personal trainers which teach swimming lessons or I can get sessions at one of those specialized triathlon/swimming centers but both of these are kind of expensive. I just found out about Total Immersion, which is a lot cheaper, but I'm not sure how well it works since there's no feedback like what you get with coaches. Since my goal is to just be able to swim a mile, regardless of time, and I have 9+ months to train, would TI and self coaching be sufficient or should I err on the safe side and get lessons?

If you look, you can find lots of the TI stuff at the local library. Get their book at least and read it. For beginners, while it's by no means the last word, it does have a lot of useful stuff. But the bottom line is that you need get a session (or two or three) with a talented swim technique instructor/coach. That's how you can drop big chunks of time off your swim. If you're new to swimming, very likely you're making some big technique errors. And that means lots of extra drag, which means slower times.

I've given a lot of swim technique instruction to triathletes and I also have a lot of experience teaching complex motor skills to adults. Over the decades, I've also received instruction from many different swim coaches and I've closely observed many swim coaches. From this, I've learned a few key things. For a technique instructor, I'd likely avoid one that has swum fast since early childhood. Because the big thing for you is not to just find a super fast swimmer as a coach. Yes, you should find someone who can swim fast and who also really knows triathlon, but what you really need is someone who (here's the kicker) can teach you how to swim faster. And, believe me, this is not so easy to do. Sure, many very fast swimmers who have been training since youth swim great, but they simply don't know how to observe and troubleshoot your technique and then tell you how to correct it. Because they've never been down that path themselves.

I have noticed that some fast swimmers who started out as slower swimmers (so they were not trained competitive youth swimmers), but then learned piece-by-piece how to swim very fast end up being the best teachers. Because they know exactly what it took for them to "get" the fundamentals of better technique and better body position. And they'll most likely to be able to help you in a way that you can rapidly comprehend, fully understand, and then easily execute.

I very much doubt any of the personal trainers at your gym would have the ability to really help you with getting good swim technique. But talking to people at your local masters swim group might be a good way to find someone like that. Another way is to ask every fast triathlete you know or meet. Ask every lifeguard you run into. Ask every swim or tri coach you meet. Rinse. Repeat.




2011-11-14 10:50 AM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
I always encourage people to go to a group "learn how to swim" lesson at their local YMCA, tri club, etc.

Then, spend the money for one-on-one lessons from a swim coach.

That's the best use of your money and time.

2011-11-14 10:57 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

I've learned more in 2 days with an instructor than I did for a year swimming on my own.  Make sure to get a competitive swimming instructor; some 'swim instructors' just teach you how to swim, and not the fine points.  You can train solo for run and bike, but for the swim, you need help.

Swimming is alot like a golf stroke.  Its never perfect (unless your name is Andy Potts), and even the pro's work on it.

2011-11-14 11:05 AM
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NH
Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

Absolutely get at least some time with a coach, and good call by ferret on a competitive swimming instructor. 

I used a coach and he took some video, and it was shocking how different what I thought I was doing (from self coaching) and what was I was actually doing.  And the coach picked out a few things I would never have thought were causing major time/energy drains.

If you opt not to go with a coach, I highly recommend at least getting some underwater stroke video and checking out what is actually happening under the water.

2011-11-14 4:23 PM
in reply to: #3900705

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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?

Wow, thank you for all of the great advice! I feel much better about this triathlon already

It seems like getting a private swimming instructor (instead of self-taught, gym trainer or group lessons) is the best way to go in the long run, even if it's just for a few sessions every other week.

Would it be better to combine the TI book/dvd with a TI coach so I could go through the TI stuff at my own pace and use the coach for fine tuning and correction? Or just get a coach for a while and forget about all the TI stuff? From what I read, it seems like some of the techniques TI tells you is opposite from the "standard" technique so I don't want to get conflicting instruction, esp if I'm paying for them.

And what exactly are these Master that people always talk about? Is it where everyone just does drills and swims together with coaches watching on the sideline? Kind of like aerobics class but in a pool? People talk about how it makes them better swimmers so how is it different from a group lessons? Or if it's just drills and laps, what benefits does it have over just swimming by yourself in a pool? 



Edited by weizilla 2011-11-14 4:24 PM
2011-11-14 9:45 PM
in reply to: #3900705

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Fishers, IN
Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
I am your shoes as well, sort of. I used Ti to learn balance and some streamlining. I going with a coach at the YMCA for now-- he has given some good tips about lengthening my stroke that I never would have caught on my own. Sounds like I too should find an instructor locally after I'm through with the YMCA guy. I did a sprint duathlon last year because I couldnt do the swim, but should hit the tri"s in 2012


2011-11-15 5:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
I definitely agree with everyone else in that you should get a personal swim coach at least to start. Swimming is so technical that immediate feed back is essential. Once you get the basics down then you can move on to Total Immersion. However, you may also want to look into a program like tri swim secrets (shameful plug here ) since we provide individual feedback, online coaching, and access 24/7 with tri specific programs that have been shown to work. Good luck!
2011-11-15 9:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim coach or self coach?
at least 2 lessons.  ask for video of lessons and your stroke.
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