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2012-07-05 5:53 PM

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Subject: Building my own jogger

This is a long post, I hope I won't bore you guys. It's kind of a semi-document of what I was up to since the beginning of this year.

Here is some background. After finding out my wife carrying twins in the beginning of the year, I was excited and nervous. My major concern is rather I could be a father of two or not. Indeed, this is the question I always ask myself before we even plan for kids. (That was part of the reason I got into endurance sport. Mostly related to the inspired video from Team Hyot. But thats another story)


I was stressed not because of everything I have to prepare. I feel like I am not preparing enough. Baby class, buying all necessary baby stuff, prep for baby room, baby CPR course, I have done what everybody should do. But that doesn't give me piece of mind. I decided to start this project... a special gift for my twin girls. 


This may sounds weird... I remember I told myself when I ran the first marathon; If I can finish a marathon, I can do anything. For some strange reason, I feel that if I can accomplished this project, I can be a good father. 


So this begin.

I start off by... dreaming. After seeing all those flimsy stroller I am surprise they could pass safety test. With all those bicycle parts in my basement, I start putting some of my thought on paper. With a semi-bicycle junkie + motornut background I conclude with the following design principle:


- one piece solid rigid frame design with mininum flex

- simpliest design (the KISS principle)

- embedded as many already-built quality parts I have as possible (mostly bicycle parts). No point re-inventing the wheel.

- Safety safety safety!

Putting my thought from paper to Google SketchIt, I come up with this:

stroller sketchup



I didn't draw the seat in, but I have seen strollers with detachable seats, I decided to use them for my build. I get the seat measurement from buybuy baby to determine the stroller width.

Next step, I took a welding class at Schoolcraft community college taught by Rodney Johnson. After learning some basic, I bought some metal. With Rod's permission and guildance, I "execute" my plan with some action:

Start cutting some square tube... the pic show some 45 degree cutting:

metal beams cut



This is the plan of how the frame layout. I start realize measurement on paper is different than the actual building measurement.

planning the frame



start building the frame with a regtangle. This is how it tag weld together. I thought it was a piece of cake, however, it takes me forever to make a perfect regtangle. I end up cutting it, grand the metal, re-weld them several times. I still don't understand how I can get 90 degress on all 4 corners but the left beam is 1 cm shorter then the right beam.

tag welding the frame



The most important point is to have the left and right beam parallel, because thats where the wheel align. I build the whole frame based this rule.

After getting the perfect regtangle, I stick weld them together using some 6103 weld rod. Pic show some of the newbie mistake I made. (another cut and reweld)

weld defect



Finally have them in perfect regtangle, parallel length, witout any welding flaws (although some weld are ugly but they are structually sound) As for the length compare to the original sketch-up draft, its slightly different because of all the cutting and grinding.

frame completed



Frame is ready. I thought I am 50% done! But in reality, it is just the beginning. The next thing on the list, the brackets for the handle bar and 3 wheels.

Back to the design studio and start thinking of the wheels, I realized I can't use normal bicycle hubs for the rear wheel. (Duh!) It requires a mounting points for both side of the wheel but my design only attached the wheel to one side. So I source out the following options:


1. lefty hub from cannondale
2. hubs from a tricycle
3. wheel chair hubs

After some research, I give up the lefty hub. Not only because of the price, but also because of the design is always on the left, so it might be a porblem right-mounting the hub in a long run. So thats the first off the list. 


The tricycle hub is also not ideal after some research... most of the tricycle have a shaft involved and it is un-necessary in my application. it might add complixity to have some type of solid axle type of build.  

That said, its still a valid option.

I almost cry when I start searching for wheel chair hubs. Most wheel chair has their own special wheels, which is against my principle of using as much bicycle parts as possible. Then I remember the hand-cycle and sport wheel chair wheels, they are totally different then the normal wheel chair. After some intensive research, I found several wheel chair hubs suitable for my application. Taking the bite of $160 per pop, I end up building my stroller with a pair of Sun Metal GT1000 Alloy hubs.

hub



back to the shop. I start off with the handle bar bracket. Because this is the most complex one. I decided to get the school assisted using a plasma cutter to build the bracket. Too bad I missed some cool pictures the plasma cutter in action. The picture shown below is the circle plasma cutted. I am drilling holes for the handle bar shaft:

handle bar bracket



I don't have picture of the adapter with all the holes drilled. It takes more times to measure then actually doing the work. But its all well worth. People said measure twice, cut once. I probably measured 10 times and cut once. 


After that I weld it to the frame. however, I run into a heat wrap problem:

heat wrap



Furstated, I fix it by using a pry bar to bend it to proper angle. I didn't buy a handle bar tube yet so I just leave it as is.

hubs arrived. I can start working on the rear wheel bracket:

hub arrived



This is the rear wheel bracket. The material is from the left-over parts of the handle bar bracket. I used press drill to set the shaft hole

rear wheel bracket



Mainwhile, I got the sproke. I start building the wheels with the wheelchair hub:

building wheels



The finish product. The top tube thing is the shaft for the rear wheel, and those are the adapter plate for the shaft to go in. I made the hole a bit longer so there is some adjustment for the wheel to go forward/backward.

finish rear bracket



Have the handle bar bracket done, the rear wheel bracket ready, the only thing left is the front wheel bracket. I didn't use plasma cutter for it. Indeed, I start of with a piece of metal and grind it to the shape I want.

grinding



Finally bought the handle bar tube. So I test fitted it with the handle bar adapter:

handle bar adapter



Also have the front adapter finish and weled to the frame. here is a test fit. It takes a lot of time to position both bracket balance so the front wheel is straight

front wheel bracket



The same accuracy needed for the rear wheel bracket. If any of them out of alignment (not parallel), the wheel will tilt at an angle and it will not go smooth.


After welded the rear wheel bracket, I granded the frame into bare metal, this is how it looks

shiny frame



I thought I am 50% done, but in reality, I am still far away.

With everything in place, I put all the parts together for a test shot.

test fitted



Now its time to think about the seat. Just happen we start seriously shop for our baby stroller.

We decided tendem is the way to go. However, after trying all the tendem, only one of them can fit into our little 4 dr sedan. We are forced to buy the baby jogger city select:

city select stroller



so I decided to buy the extra adapter for sketchup the draft..

adapter




While thinking of the seat, the frame start to rust just by sitting on the garage floor. I decided to paint it. First, I primer it:

primer the frame



I decided to paint the frame yellow. Not because I like yellor a lot, its because its the most visible color... consider jogging across the road with my babies, I want them to be the most visible stroller to the drivers:

paint the frame



Another lession learn. Don't buy cheap spray can. if you want to stick with spray can, buy some decent one. After experiencing with some wal-mart spray can, and a lot of sanding away the awful colors, I decided to spent a few bucks more to buy some Duplicolor can.

paint the handle bar rod as well:

paint handle bar




Have them put together. I have the brake and handle bar mock up as well:

test fitted 2



As for the brake, I was thinking of putting a set of RSX or the Sora currently on my bike. but then I think about how I lock up the front wheel, I decided to "downgrade" to some walmart brake for now. It doesn't sounds right to have too much brake power that can stop on a dime with babies on board. Beside, it is a jogging stroller. I will be lucky to run 5 mph.



Back to the seat. My major road block is the bracket to fit the adapter. the adapter is in oval shape and they don't sell the bracket by itself. I decided to fab a regtangle just enough to fit the adapter in. My problem... my welding class is over and I no longer have access to a good welder. I decided to try some home tools and see if I can get by. Bought an elbow aluminum piece, a propane torch, and some Alumiweld from Harbor Flight. After 3 days of trial and error, I concluded that Alumiweld is not something structually sound. At least not something I dare to put my baby on. So here I cheat a little bit. I "out sourced" the brackets to some local welder. here is the result:

weld comparision 1



couple grand worth of miller TIG welder vs $14 worth of Harbor Flight weld rod (or 10 yrs experience of TIG welding vs 3 days of cheapo home brew welding experience)

weld comparison 2



after getting the bracket, I decided to do have a test fit of the seat:

baby seat test



The bracket is excellent. So I decided to install the seat right away. Then I run into some problem. If I install the seat far to the back, it might tip over because of the weight distribution. If I shift it to the front, the front beam blocking the leg. So.. I picked my poison:

test fitted 3

If I redesign it again, I probably move the front bar more toward the front, or backward to the rear and hide it under the seat. But its too late now.

 

Another minor problem. I plan for the width of the bracket, but never thought of the seat. The seat end up overlapping each other.

seat flaw




After the seat installed, I completed the brake. The brake lever and a 6 feet brake line:

brake 1



I reverse-mount the brake so that it won't interfernce with the seat, and its better to route the brakeline this way

brake 2



the brake line was mounted with some high-end advance technology: zip-tie

brake 3



This is how far it goes for now. I still have 1 week left before the D-day. The only thing left is to true the rims, and to install tires:

test fitted 4



Wish me luck to have it completed by this week!



Edited by yorkee 2012-07-05 6:05 PM


2012-07-05 6:19 PM
in reply to: #4296254

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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Pretty Cool!!
2012-07-05 6:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Some nice ideas there. 

One observation; it doesn't look like there is any steering capacity.  Are you planning on skid-steering / sliding the front wheel? 

2012-07-05 7:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Nice, but why steel instead of aluminum?
2012-07-05 7:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Very cool.

How much does it weigh and what does that compare to commercial models?

I am curious about the brake, would a "dead man" type brake be better in case you slip or fall and for some reason let go of the stroller be more useful than a

regular brake?

2012-07-05 7:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Awesome!As a dad who pushes two around that looks like a great set up. Only thing I'd say is get a wheel guard on that front one before it catches a foot or hand.


2012-07-05 10:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Hey I noticed some bikes in teh background.

As a new dad you should not ride or keep them, I will gladly take the bikes of your hand, completly free of charge!

 

Other than that:

AWESOME!

2012-07-06 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
tcj103 - 2012-07-05 7:42 PM

Some nice ideas there. 

One observation; it doesn't look like there is any steering capacity.  Are you planning on skid-steering / sliding the front wheel? 

 

Thanks!  I actually did put some thought into the steering but I didn't document it here...  I originally look at some other running jogger steering, its either open wheel, lock wheel or hybrid.  (There are some crazy steering system such as Peg Perego Duette but thats way too complicated)  Usually the free open wheel is for normal stroller, design to go around goccery isles easily, but hard to keep it straight at running speed.  The hardcore running jogger has fix steering so it will go straight.  But it won't turn unless you lift/drag the front wheel.  the hybrid one can open and lock wheel, but there's always a little bit unwanted free play from the locking mechanisms.

 

Base on the KISS principle, and since this is a running jogger, I go with the fix steering type.  In addition, I put a longer then usual handle bar shaft.  That create a lever effect to lift up the front wheel easily:  

  

I tested it with empty stroller, it is very easy to lift the front wheel a little bit up, turn then put it back down.  The only draw back is I feel I am so far from the stroller.  I will try it with some weight after putting tire on.  

2012-07-06 8:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

jackson61802 - 2012-07-05 8:04 PM Nice, but why steel instead of aluminum?

 

I wish I can do it in aluminum.  I didn't do it because I don't know how to TIG (or MIG aluminum).  I will definitely go back to school and master those two skills and have a version 2.0

And yes, I already started jogger 2.0 in design!

2012-07-06 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Av8rTx - 2012-07-05 8:08 PM

Very cool.

How much does it weigh and what does that compare to commercial models?

Haven't weight it yet, but it is heavy.  I think its at least 40 lbs.  

That said, because of the big 700c wheels and the bicycle/handcycle grade hubs, it should have minimum rolling resistance.  (At least thats what I wish) Perfect for flat surface, probably not so good for hills.  

Av8rTx - 2012-07-05 8:08 PM

I am curious about the brake, would a "dead man" type brake be better in case you slip or fall and for some reason let go of the stroller be more useful than a regular brake?

Good point, but dead man type of brake means you are holding the brake for 1/2 - 1 hrs during the run.  Not sure if I want it do it.  However, I did look into some clutch type of mechanism used by scooters and pocket bikes.  But I don't know how to apply it to the stroller easily.  

I am all ears if you have any creative suggestions how to make a safe dead man type of brake, or anything that could prevent it to roll by itself.   

For now maybe I will put one of those surfing board type of strap on just in case of the slip and fall scenario...



Edited by yorkee 2012-07-06 8:16 AM
2012-07-06 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

sea2summit - 2012-07-05 8:09 PM Awesome!As a dad who pushes two around that looks like a great set up. Only thing I'd say is get a wheel guard on that front one before it catches a foot or hand.

That's what my wife suggested too!  I will skip the wheel guard until they glow up a little bit.  Thinking of using a mtn bike mud guard in the front, and maybe fiberglass or abs to flab a fender on the side.  

I don't have to worry about it since I will be pushing them in car seat for now.  



2012-07-06 8:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
timf79 - 2012-07-05 11:01 PM

Hey I noticed some bikes in teh background.

As a new dad you should not ride or keep them, I will gladly take the bikes of your hand, completly free of charge!

I gotta save them for my kids in the future :D  good try! 

timf79 - 2012-07-05 11:01 PM 

Other than that:

AWESOME!

RushTogether - 2012-07-05 7:19 PM Pretty Cool!!

Thank you!  Love all the positive feedback!  and love all the suggestions!  

 

I probably didn't document enough here... My notes are all over the place.  I will update it when I find anything missing.  

2012-07-06 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Nice job! Like you said at 40# you probably won't want to do many hills, but if a deadman brake is desired you could always use a pinned set up that you attach to your wrist or clothes, like a kill switch on most ATV's.

Welcome to the world of twins, I have 17yo twin daughters and it has been wonderful, just make sure that you have fun with people when they ask stupid questions

 

2012-07-06 8:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Wow, I am impressed.  I have toyed for years about how to build a jogging "cart" for myself - something to use for running errands, literally.   I didn't need any safety measures or anything fancy, just something to toss in a few grocery bags.

I ultimately ended up buying a really inexpensive jogging stroller from Walmart.   The advantage is that it's not too heavy, and a wheel that I can lock or swivel, and the best feature - it folds up.    I took off all of the strollery looking stuff (the baby seat and other fabric) and I am trying to find an adequate basket to fit withing the frame that is sturdy and lightweight.  If you have any ideas, let me know...  

2012-07-06 8:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Awesome!

I used to take my daughter out in a jogger when she was little. Pushing the handlebar down to get the front wheel up in corners worked perfectly fine for me. 

The only suggestion I have is this: Instead of holding the handle bar continuously while running it's easier and more comfortable to keep pushing the jogger away in front of you, alternating arms. For this to work, you probably want a straight handlebar with a decent amount of foam around it. 

2012-07-06 9:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
for version 2.0 i would look at the attachment of the rear wheels a little more.  seems like with two kids back there, as they get older it might cause some bending of the flange inward (rear wheel bracket).  extending the flange bottom edge and welding it to the outside, rather than the top, of the square bar would have made it a little stiffer, or even adding in some triangular cut reinforcement pieces would work too.


2012-07-06 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
RE: deadman's brake. Our jogger had a wrist band and strap attached to jogger, so if you fell the jogger stopped with you...
2012-07-06 11:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Off topic! What's that little Marlboro two squeak motorcycle I see sitting back there on a paddock stand? Nice stroller by the way, push that up some hills for a killer workout!
2012-07-06 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Nice Sketchup model BTW. Did you see if there were models of bicycle wheels to import and use. Yours has a Romanesque-chariot feel to it
2012-07-06 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Mountaindan - 2012-07-06 9:26 AM

Nice job! Like you said at 40# you probably won't want to do many hills, but if a deadman brake is desired you could always use a pinned set up that you attach to your wrist or clothes, like a kill switch on most ATV's.

Welcome to the world of twins, I have 17yo twin daughters and it has been wonderful, just make sure that you have fun with people when they ask stupid questions

 

 

great idea about the pin setup! I will think about how to modify the bicycle brake caliper so the spring will pull in instead of push out.  Probably won't be in this version.  maybe in 2.0

will definitely have fun with twin questions

2012-07-06 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
Fred... - 2012-07-06 9:55 AM

Awesome!

I used to take my daughter out in a jogger when she was little. Pushing the handlebar down to get the front wheel up in corners worked perfectly fine for me. 

The only suggestion I have is this: Instead of holding the handle bar continuously while running it's easier and more comfortable to keep pushing the jogger away in front of you, alternating arms. For this to work, you probably want a straight handlebar with a decent amount of foam around it. 

 

thanks!  Too bad I don't have straight bar around the house... I will see how it goes worst case scenario i may get a straight bar from craigslist or swap meet.  



2012-07-06 2:45 PM
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2012-07-06 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

Clempson - 2012-07-06 10:23 AM for version 2.0 i would look at the attachment of the rear wheels a little more.  seems like with two kids back there, as they get older it might cause some bending of the flange inward (rear wheel bracket).  extending the flange bottom edge and welding it to the outside, rather than the top, of the square bar would have made it a little stiffer, or even adding in some triangular cut reinforcement pieces would work too.

The rear wheel attachment are 11ga (0.12 inches) thick plate.  I thought it should be enough strength for running jogger, I guess I will see from testing after putting tires on.  If I do it in aluminum I will definitely take your idea and brace it for more stiffness.  

 

thor67 - 2012-07-06 10:58 AM RE: deadman's brake. Our jogger had a wrist band and strap attached to jogger, so if you fell the jogger stopped with you...

Cool... that's probably the easiest solution.  I will probably do that. 

Tiffanator - 2012-07-06 12:03 PM Off topic! What's that little Marlboro two squeak motorcycle I see sitting back there on a paddock stand? Nice stroller by the way, push that up some hills for a killer workout!

That's a 20 yrs old Yamaha TZR250 V-twin I recently rebuilt.  Maybe that's why I have twins...

 

Av8rTx - 2012-07-06 12:33 PM Nice Sketchup model BTW. Did you see if there were models of bicycle wheels to import and use. Yours has a Romanesque-chariot feel to it

I should have done more homework prior to the build.  Originally I thought about Cannondale lefty hubs or tricycle's hub.  Neither is ideal.  End up using sport wheel chair / hand cycle hub instead.    Yeah I feel like its a chariot as well..  Indeed I am thinking about calling it Chariot

2012-07-06 2:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger

FoggyGoggles - 2012-07-06 3:45 PM Nice project! What would you estimate the cost of materials to be?

 

Just the metal, around $70. (I am using some scrap)

With the hub I am using, another $200 on top of it including the spokes.

With the rest of this and that, and all the silly trial and error, probably another $100-200.

Yes, its more expensive than buying a brand new running jogger.  But the fact that I can say "I built a stroller for my kids"... PRICELESS!

 



Edited by yorkee 2012-07-06 2:57 PM
2012-07-06 2:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Building my own jogger
yorkee - 2012-07-06 2:50 PM

Av8rTx - 2012-07-06 12:33 PM Nice Sketchup model BTW. Did you see if there were models of bicycle wheels to import and use. Yours has a Romanesque-chariot feel to it

I should have done more homework prior to the build.  Originally I thought about Cannondale lefty hubs or tricycle's hub.  Neither is ideal.  End up using sport wheel chair / hand cycle hub instead.    Yeah I feel like its a chariot as well..  Indeed I am thinking about calling it Chariot

I was referring specifically to the Sketchup rendering, you can import some things from the 3dwarehouse like this:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=4fcc3b1dfb43057704e9838e5b15da1&prevstart=0

Save yourself the tedious process of "reinventing the wheel' so to speak

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