General Discussion Triathlon Talk » another swim death...USAT race Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 3
 
 
2012-08-21 2:28 PM
in reply to: #4373312

User image

Elite
3140
2000100010025
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Kido - 2012-08-21 1:22 PM

Can someone clarify for me...

This is getting REALLY concerning?  For you?  Your safety?  Other's safety?  Are you going to quit or make changes to how you swim based on this?

It seems to be happening in EVERY race?  Man, we have lots of races in this area over many years.  Not one death.  I can't imagine ever getting the feeling that it seems to happen in EVERY race.  Even if it happend 3 times in one year.  With a dozen races in the valley alone, it wouldn't seem like it's happening every race.  It would seem like an anomoly to have so many, but not EVERY race.

 

Threads like this bother me because they are just an over reaction, IMO.

The best thing I can compair this to is when I lived in Denver and there were always ski related deaths every winter.  Usually around a half dozen a year.  Probably MORE than die in triathlons.  Just like triathlons, many times it's inexperienced skiiers/boarders on terrain beyond their limits OR experienced people that just had an accident or nature/conditions got the best of them.

It's part of the sport.  People need to excersize judgement.  And even THEN bad things can still happen.  No one in Denver is cying "what can we do" about skiier deaths.  You do what you can.  Mark off boundaries and mark trails and tell people to be careful.  Ski resorts do avalance control and provide ski patrol.

There are risks and we all know what they are.  The sky is not falling, IMO.

All of the concerned people.  What are YOU doing about it then with your concern?  What changes are YOU making?  Or just voicing your concern?

Is it really concern just to say that, but continue to do everything exactly as you have been doing it.

When you "cherry pick" my post of course it will have a different message.....

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.

I do not think its an over reaction, because every other sport evolves to make it safer. Why if we question whats happening in the sport and whether we can make triathlon safer it's interpretted as someone is saying triathlons are not safe at all and we should all "run from the hills" and stay away from the sport...which I am not saying...just think a little more attention focussed on safety would be ok by me so less families are burying their spouses, parents etc

 

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.



2012-08-21 2:37 PM
in reply to: #4373648

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
FELTGood - 2012-08-21 12:28 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 1:22 PM

Can someone clarify for me...

This is getting REALLY concerning?  For you?  Your safety?  Other's safety?  Are you going to quit or make changes to how you swim based on this?

It seems to be happening in EVERY race?  Man, we have lots of races in this area over many years.  Not one death.  I can't imagine ever getting the feeling that it seems to happen in EVERY race.  Even if it happend 3 times in one year.  With a dozen races in the valley alone, it wouldn't seem like it's happening every race.  It would seem like an anomoly to have so many, but not EVERY race.

 

Threads like this bother me because they are just an over reaction, IMO.

The best thing I can compair this to is when I lived in Denver and there were always ski related deaths every winter.  Usually around a half dozen a year.  Probably MORE than die in triathlons.  Just like triathlons, many times it's inexperienced skiiers/boarders on terrain beyond their limits OR experienced people that just had an accident or nature/conditions got the best of them.

It's part of the sport.  People need to excersize judgement.  And even THEN bad things can still happen.  No one in Denver is cying "what can we do" about skiier deaths.  You do what you can.  Mark off boundaries and mark trails and tell people to be careful.  Ski resorts do avalance control and provide ski patrol.

There are risks and we all know what they are.  The sky is not falling, IMO.

All of the concerned people.  What are YOU doing about it then with your concern?  What changes are YOU making?  Or just voicing your concern?

Is it really concern just to say that, but continue to do everything exactly as you have been doing it.

When you "cherry pick" my post of course it will have a different message.....

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.

I do not think its an over reaction, because every other sport evolves to make it safer. Why if we question whats happening in the sport and whether we can make triathlon safer it's interpretted as someone is saying triathlons are not safe at all and we should all "run from the hills" and stay away from the sport...which I am not saying...just think a little more attention focussed on safety would be ok by me so less families are burying their spouses, parents etc

 

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.

Then I don't understand your writing then.

If I said "It seems like everyone who posts on BT is an absolute moron, but I know it's not true..." 

Hard to get a read on that.  Hence the request for clarification in my post.  That's why I asked the question.

So are you concerned or not because it's statistically safe?  Does it seem like every race or do you know it's not true?



Edited by Kido 2012-08-21 2:38 PM
2012-08-21 2:51 PM
in reply to: #4373661

User image

Elite
3140
2000100010025
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Kido - 2012-08-21 3:37 PM
FELTGood - 2012-08-21 12:28 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 1:22 PM

Can someone clarify for me...

This is getting REALLY concerning?  For you?  Your safety?  Other's safety?  Are you going to quit or make changes to how you swim based on this?

It seems to be happening in EVERY race?  Man, we have lots of races in this area over many years.  Not one death.  I can't imagine ever getting the feeling that it seems to happen in EVERY race.  Even if it happend 3 times in one year.  With a dozen races in the valley alone, it wouldn't seem like it's happening every race.  It would seem like an anomoly to have so many, but not EVERY race.

 

Threads like this bother me because they are just an over reaction, IMO.

The best thing I can compair this to is when I lived in Denver and there were always ski related deaths every winter.  Usually around a half dozen a year.  Probably MORE than die in triathlons.  Just like triathlons, many times it's inexperienced skiiers/boarders on terrain beyond their limits OR experienced people that just had an accident or nature/conditions got the best of them.

It's part of the sport.  People need to excersize judgement.  And even THEN bad things can still happen.  No one in Denver is cying "what can we do" about skiier deaths.  You do what you can.  Mark off boundaries and mark trails and tell people to be careful.  Ski resorts do avalance control and provide ski patrol.

There are risks and we all know what they are.  The sky is not falling, IMO.

All of the concerned people.  What are YOU doing about it then with your concern?  What changes are YOU making?  Or just voicing your concern?

Is it really concern just to say that, but continue to do everything exactly as you have been doing it.

When you "cherry pick" my post of course it will have a different message.....

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.

I do not think its an over reaction, because every other sport evolves to make it safer. Why if we question whats happening in the sport and whether we can make triathlon safer it's interpretted as someone is saying triathlons are not safe at all and we should all "run from the hills" and stay away from the sport...which I am not saying...just think a little more attention focussed on safety would be ok by me so less families are burying their spouses, parents etc

 

My post: This is starting to really get concerning. This seems to be happening in every race, but I know its not true and statistically still safe however very eye opening none the less.

Then I don't understand your writing then.

If I said "It seems like everyone who posts on BT is an absolute moron, but I know it's not true..." 

Hard to get a read on that.  Hence the request for clarification in my post.  That's why I asked the question.

So are you concerned or not because it's statistically safe?  Does it seem like every race or do you know it's not true?

 I think most everyone understood where i was coming from.....What's ironic to me is I put the bold section in my post because I felt if I left the nonbolded section by itself someone was going to think I was crying the "sky is falling"....which I think we both agree isn't.....however no matter what I put explaining I realize statistically triathlon is a safe sport would be overlooked...However next time I will just put the link up with no comment

 

 



Edited by FELTGood 2012-08-21 2:52 PM
2012-08-21 2:53 PM
in reply to: #4373661

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

2012-08-21 2:57 PM
in reply to: #4373710

User image

Expert
932
50010010010010025
Chandler, AZ
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Kido - 2012-08-21 12:53 PM

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

 

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

2012-08-21 3:01 PM
in reply to: #4373707

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
FELTGood - 2012-08-21 12:51 PM

 I think most everyone understood where i was coming from.....What's ironic to me is I put the bold section in my post because I felt if I left the nonbolded section by itself someone was going to think I was crying the "sky is falling"....which I think we both agree isn't.....however no matter what I put explaining I realize statistically triathlon is a safe sport would be overlooked...However next time I will just put the link up with no comment

 

I'm just trying to take a step back and think of the audience.

This is BEGINNER TRIATHLETE.  So probably have a significantly higher number of beginners than the rival sites perhaps.

So when I see things like "seems like every race..."  even with a disclaimer, could sound scary, no?  NOT every race, NOT even close.  Why build the anxiety up even more, even by accident?  Saying "there has been a larger number than normal", or a "sudden increase" is true and could bring attention to the issue at the same time, not create undue fear either.

Tri swims are generally SAFE.  People should train and be careful and understand the safey measures, etc.  Things like this should just be a reminder to remember to be safe and not take it lightly.



2012-08-21 3:05 PM
in reply to: #4373717

User image

Member
5452
50001001001001002525
NC
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
JasenGuy - 2012-08-21 3:57 PM

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

Let me say this post is pure brilliance - as demonstrated by my nearly identical post in the wife/swim/death thread.  Brilliance sir!

 

2012-08-21 3:05 PM
in reply to: #4373717

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
JasenGuy - 2012-08-21 12:57 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 12:53 PM

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

 

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

Is it more or less statistacly than doing ANY water sport?  Surfing or just swimming in the ocean?  Or is it related to triathlon?  How many people drown a year OUTSIDE of a triathlon swim?

MAYBE it's just part of doing water sports, and not associated with triathlon so we should look at water sports in general rather than a triathlon swim.

2012-08-21 3:09 PM
in reply to: #4373731

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2012-08-21 3:10 PM
2012-08-21 3:14 PM
in reply to: #4373731

Expert
932
50010010010010025
Chandler, AZ
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Kido - 2012-08-21 1:05 PM
JasenGuy - 2012-08-21 12:57 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 12:53 PM

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

 

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

Is it more or less statistacly than doing ANY water sport?  Surfing or just swimming in the ocean?  Or is it related to triathlon?  How many people drown a year OUTSIDE of a triathlon swim?

MAYBE it's just part of doing water sports, and not associated with triathlon so we should look at water sports in general rather than a triathlon swim.

 

Okay, how many people died in 2012 from drowning during an organized water sport event that was not triathlon related?? I can't find any...

 

ETA: I'm not saying triathlon swims are dangerous nor am I saying that I have fear of participating in triathlons. I originally only responded to your question of why there isn't the same type of concern about cycling deaths.



Edited by JasenGuy 2012-08-21 3:27 PM
2012-08-21 3:27 PM
in reply to: #4373742

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Fred D - 2012-08-21 1:09 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 4:05 PM
JasenGuy - 2012-08-21 12:57 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 12:53 PM

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

 

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

Is it more or less statistacly than doing ANY water sport?  Surfing or just swimming in the ocean?  Or is it related to triathlon?  How many people drown a year OUTSIDE of a triathlon swim?

MAYBE it's just part of doing water sports, and not associated with triathlon so we should look at water sports in general rather than a triathlon swim.

. I remember reading in the book 'super freakonomics' that there are more deaths from accidental drowning in children than there are deatromps children from shooting in the USA. So I think there are lots of deaths in swimming in this context, but clearly children are not doing the triathlons. It just doesn't seem to make the mainstream media front pages so to speak when a child drowns in a swimming pool.... Which is really pretty strange isn't it?

It is.  Tells me the focus is in the wrong place.  But we can thank the media for that.  Less shock value.  But that's a whole different thread.  Kid dying every week in a pool is "been there, done that".  And it's a simple cause, not paying attention - case closed.

A "super stud" triathlete goes down in an event?  Someone who knows what they are doing?  It's a big mystery how that could happen and more shocking to read about.



2012-08-21 3:32 PM
in reply to: #4373780

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2012-08-21 3:32 PM
2012-08-21 3:45 PM
in reply to: #4373788

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Fred D - 2012-08-21 1:32 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 4:27 PM
Fred D - 2012-08-21 1:09 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 4:05 PM
JasenGuy - 2012-08-21 12:57 PM
Kido - 2012-08-21 12:53 PM

It just seems to me, that there are WAY more cycling deaths and injuries in day to day training and that seems, I don't know, acceptable?

We just say, people should be smart, wear their helmet, watch for drivers, follow the rules by the road and send them out the door with a "good luck".  That's about it.  What else can you do?  The risks of riding.

But get a few swimmer deaths, some by reasons we don't even know yet, and there is thread after thread about it.

I guess it makes for interesting talk.

 

Maybe that's because we know why cyclists are being killed, but the underlying reasons for people (who have spent hours upon hours of swim training) drowning part way through the swim leg of a triathlon are still unknown?...

Is it more or less statistacly than doing ANY water sport?  Surfing or just swimming in the ocean?  Or is it related to triathlon?  How many people drown a year OUTSIDE of a triathlon swim?

MAYBE it's just part of doing water sports, and not associated with triathlon so we should look at water sports in general rather than a triathlon swim.

. I remember reading in the book 'super freakonomics' that there are more deaths from accidental drowning in children than there are deatromps children from shooting in the USA. So I think there are lots of deaths in swimming in this context, but clearly children are not doing the triathlons. It just doesn't seem to make the mainstream media front pages so to speak when a child drowns in a swimming pool.... Which is really pretty strange isn't it?

It is.  Tells me the focus is in the wrong place.  But we can thank the media for that.  Less shock value.  But that's a whole different thread.  Kid dying every week in a pool is "been there, done that".  And it's a simple cause, not paying attention - case closed.

A "super stud" triathlete goes down in an event?  Someone who knows what they are doing?  It's a big mystery how that could happen and more shocking to read about.

. Probably a similar issue is the media attention on marathon runners who die running the event. More shock value because it happens to someone who is supposed to be fit. There is an underlying (my opinion) bias against endurance athletics by the sedentary crowd and this further plays to that bias. Again just my worthless opinions.

Then mine is just as worthless because I agree.  If the person who dies is the super athlete and supposed to be fit.  Can't be them.  Has to be the event, triathlon, or some other mystery.

2012-08-21 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4373788

Veteran
555
5002525
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race

Fred D - 2012-08-21 4:32 PM 

Probably a similar issue is the media attention on marathon runners who die running the event. More shock value because it happens to someone who is supposed to be fit. There is an underlying (my opinion) bias against endurance athletics by the sedentary crowd and this further plays to that bias.

+1

Media definitely is hunting for shock value.

Further, the human brain is not good at equally valuing all data when considering anecdotal evidence to assess risk (selection bias, reference bias, exclusion bias, etc).  That is, we tend to remember the cases which support our beliefs and ignore/forget the cases which don't.  The media feeds the masses 'another endurance athlete dies' without mentioning the 1000's which didn't die.

We don't know why the triathletes died.  But that doesn't mean we can't explore changes to the sport which are directionally correct toward making it "safer" and more user friendly.

Organizing a self-seeding method costs nothing and makes everyone more efficient.  Yes, it takes away some of scrum, but who says triathlon must include a full contact swim?

2012-08-21 5:12 PM
in reply to: #4369701

Expert
1095
1000252525
C-bus
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race

Here's a random thought...  I'm not trying to stir the pot, just put the question out there...

If these deaths are occuring during the swim, are there any deaths in, say, a master's swim meet or practice?  Are events even that long (1 mile or so) or are they just shorter (100s, 200s, 400s, etc.)  I guess what I'm asking is, is there any data for deaths in an organized swimming-only event?

I have never been on a swim team.  That's why I'm asking.

 

2012-08-21 10:33 PM
in reply to: #4369701

Veteran
300
100100100
Subject: RE: another swim death...USAT race
Death in triathlon appears to be 2x more likely than marathon. Worth reading (from 2009): http://www.theheart.org/article/956661.do


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » another swim death...USAT race Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 3