another swim death...USAT race

Yep. I was thinking about a end of season HIM aqua/bike but I'm starting to change my mind.

Condolences for the loved ones of the athlete.

Seriously folks.  This is a beginner triathlete site so just read back through some threads and look at the advice people give on the swimming leg and then ask about getting concerned.

• Triathlons rightfully so are getting very popular.
• Those of of who enjoy them like to see others enjoy them.
• Swimming is the only leg in triathlon you can't fake.
• Swimming can be dangerous because you can't put your feet down at any given point.
• Swimming openwater is many times more stressful than swimming in a pool.
• Swimming with a mass of people is hundreds times more stressful than swimming openwater with a buddy.

Back to those threads.  How many time do begineers ask: I don't know how to swim so can I just do breastroke, backstroke, OR sidestroke and the answer given is:  Absolutely!  Don't worry about.  You can do it!

It kind of reminds me of the old old people that should no longer be driving but they don't have accidents - they just leave a chain of them in their path.  Does that add stress to your driving?  Yep, pretty much the same way having swimmers that can't swim placing themselves out there in triathlon.

I'm not about to say that people that can't swim are causing the swimming deaths but I will say that everything that can be done to reduce the stress in the swimming portion will reduce the number of deaths.  AND if we quit telling every wannabe triathlete that doesn't want to take the time to learn to swim before signing up for their first triathlon "don't worry about swim portion, anyone can make it" the races will be less crowded by a factor of 2.

Here should be the canned answer for the repeated question:

If you want to do a triathlon, learn to swim crawl stroke and be able to swim twice the distance of the race without stopping before you sign-up.  Otherwise we have something for you call duathlons.

Exactly my point.  The old man driving his RV 40 mph down the middle lane of the Interstate rarely has an accident but he sure causes a lot of stress for all the drivers coming up from behind.

I am convinced it is the stress of the openwater race that is causing the majority of the deaths.  I base this on others accounts and my experience at IMCdA two years ago.  I am a very experienced openwater swimmer and came from 15-years of that background before starting triathlon.  IF I can experience the absolute shear terror of thinking "this is it, I'm not swimming a race anymore, I'm fighting for my life" than anyone can.   What causes a pile up on the interstate or openwater swims?.... 

Anything that can be done to reduce the possibilty of that stress on the swimmers will reduce fatalities - not all. 

x2. And without knowing their personal histories, it is impossible to identify recognizable risk factors, such as history of cardiovascular disease, or prior episodes of chest pain that got ignored, or other factors.

To look at the deaths in isolation is akin to refusing to run since Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while running at the age of 52.

Absolutely.  Triathlon should get in front of this.  If it is a statistical anomaly, then so be it, but if there is something that needs to change then lets do it.  The future of the sport may be effected by it.  Not meaning the end of triathlon, but how it is organized and ran.  Just as importantly if we (triathlon) don't address this, an organization that is clueless to our sport will make a rash, uninformed and probably useless decision that do more harm that good.  Whether that's congress or some other regulating body.

I'm not sure where that came from, our government hasn't done that yet.......

We need real data, not just what we see in the media.  How many deaths per 100,000 participants?  Compared to other activities...  How many were medical?  How many were just plain drowning?

A large percentage of fatal heart attacks happen in the morning anyway...I think if anything is to be done, perhaps an educational campaign about warming up slowly and carefully?

I agree this needs to be studied.  We need to know what killed all these people, and if there are any trends or if it's just a string of unfortunate coincidences.  And I agree, let's put it in terms of deaths per 100,000 participants.  And compare that to deaths per 100,000 in other leisure activities.

Only once we know what the problem is can we fix it.

http://www.facebook.com/TheSwimIT

That is USAT and IM approved and might save a life, although I suspect most of the deaths are from sudden heart attacks and they wouldn't have the ability to use this.

Great points about the swimming portion of a tri.

Only because we get a front page full of BT posts when it happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more vehicle fatalities of people driving on their way TO triathlons than swim deaths.

There can be a lot to the whole warm up idea. My experience is that if I go to the pool, jump right in and bang out a 1:20 100, my heart rate is already very high and I'm borderline hyperventilating. I didn't realize how bad this was until I did this one day and some guy asked me a question and I could barely talk. He was going "what? "huh?" because I was blurting the words out. That when I really noticed that my breathing was crazy. 

If I do the same exact set 15-20 minutes later at the same pace, it's a non-issue. So I have to wonder if these guys jump in cold and their heart rate goes nuts and never settles down until it goes into arrhythmia, vfib and then "game over."

I bet there would be some real eye openers if people used HRM's that worked in the water (Polar) and kept track of this stuff. I plan to do this myself over the next year.

To one who concerns about the safety of the swim portion . ^^ this.

My first race I jumped in cold at the beginning of the race, hyperventilated.. and it was very very stressful. Luckily it was only a sprint distance.. and a small group of participants. I was able to muddle my way through it, but I was exhausted. And I am an experienced swimmer with lots of training hours logged.

The next time i raced, I got in beforehand and swam about 5 to 7 minutes to warm up and get used to the open water.. I did not have the same issues. I notice a lot of participants do not do this, and I always wonder why.

Also, I always start out on the edge.. I never ever position myself in the middle of the pack.

I think the start of a triathlon can be the perfect storm in some cases.  As many have mentioned in this thread, it seems that a lot of the swimming deaths turn out to be underlying heart conditions.  As the sport grows in popularity, the shear math of it means there will also be more cases of this nature. 

I am a clydesdale, and not because I'm 6'4 and all muscle!  I earned the "C" on my calf from a long stretch of not exercising and eating poorly.  At 5'6 240lbs, I still have a long way to go to get back in shape.  I was a competitive swimmer growing up and through college, so the swim leg does not frighten me.  I also rode a bike nearly every day as a child, and not just around the neighborhood, I went for long rides of 2-8 hours.  The run has always been my nemesis, but the difference is, I can walk.  There's no "walking" in open water.  Add to that the commotion of a wave start, and you've got a bad mix for a lot of people. 

I will never forget my first triathlon (I've only done 4 so far).  It was a wading start and I wanted to be up front.  When we started, I was shocked how violent it got.  I went out hard for the first 150 yards or so to try to find some clear water, but got kicked, hit, pulled, etc. more than I expected.  My goggles got knocked half off and I swallowed a TON of water.  My heartrate went from near resting to max in mere seconds!  I came out of the water 6th in my wave and then it was downhill from there. 

Yesterday was my 4th triathlon, and first time trial start.  I will say that I MUCH prefer the TT start over the wave.  No fighting, no kicking, no mad sprint off the line.  Just a nice, swim-at-my-own-pace from the beginning.  I think for beginning triathletes, that would be a recommendation to consider.  From a competition standpoint, I think there's a huge advantage to the wave start, because you know where you stand against your competition, whereas with a time trial start, you don't really know how far ahead or behind someone started.   I am nowhere near the podium, so the competition for me is myself.  I don't train nearly enough (which is why I'm still a clyde), but I agree with the comments above that people are too often encouraged to do a triathlon without a strong enough swimming background.  I wear a polar heart rate monitor, mostly because I like to see how my body is responding when I exercise.  I don't wear it because of any concerns, but it does tell quite a story.  In yesterday's race, my HR was about 80-90 just before the start and for the swim leg it went  to an average of 166 and a max of 172.  T1 heartrate was ave 169, max 177.  Bike 165/176.  T2 158/161. Run 162/177. 

I am not fast, not even close.  I had good intentions this year, so I signed up for 4 triathlons, including my first olympic distance coming up at Tugaloo.  If you look at my training log on here, it's almost all blank.  In fact, I had only swam twice prior to my first triathlon this year, and didn't get in the pool once since then.  I put my bike away a month ago after that race, and didn't take it out until Friday night to put it in the car for yesterday's race.  I walked/ran a few times, but not nearly enough. 

If I didn't have proper swimming technique, I don't think I could fake it as well as I do out there.  All I have to do is get through the first 8-10 minutes of the race and then I can coast on the bike if I push too hard, or walk instead of run.  Non-swimmers don't have that option.  They're already overwhelmed by the swimming, and then add to that the thrashing around them, the water they're inevitably going to swallow, and sometimes they panic.  You throw an underlying heart condition in that mix, and you have that perfect storm that can really end up badly.  My advice to any new to the sport that is not a strong swimmer would be not to get caught up in the "race" mentality on the first triathlon.  On the swim, let everyone get out in front of you at the start and go slow and steady.  Also, try to find a race with a time trial start if possible.  And have fun.  Triathlon is a great sport and the "community" is incredible.  There's a thread in the boards about a guy who lost his bike this weekend and the outpouring and support he has gotten is absolutely inspiring.  I may be too lazy to train, but I'm so proud to be involved in the sport of triathlon and consider myself lucky to have the opportunity.

This is very unfortunate. This may happen to anybody, experienced or not! 

This being said, I agree with the points tamason had made. I think triathlons are getting very popular, and in general they attract people who may or may not have the experience and/or the fitness to participate in them.  

If duathlons were as popular, I think most people who do not feel comfortable in the water would choose not to do a triathlon. 

For last, as most of the sports, we accept the inherit risks that come with doing that sport. A simple example: cycling. I do not think that anybody can argue that riding 1000s of miles outdoors with cars is safer than open water swimming. 

I was in a wave two or three after from his.  From what I read, he was 3/4 of the way through the swim.  At that point of the race it was VERY disorientating.  As soon as you made the turn back towards land, you could see nothing.  The sun was blinding, waves were large, bouys and other swimmers could barely be seen.  I am not about to speculate what happened to this gentleman, but the conditions were very difficult at that point of the race.  Could it have been panic? heart attack? disorientation? water conditions?  It could have been any one of them or all. 

My heartfelt condolences and prayers are with his family and loved ones.

Yes, I too am saddened for the family who lost their loved one.  My condolences.

Several good points made above.  I think many cases are pre-existing condition brought to a cardiac event by the perfect storm (early morning, zero to max HR in 2 minutes, cold water, race enthusiasm, OWS, full contact scrum, etc.), but someone needs to summarize the data.

Here's my speculations on rule changes.

1. If a non-triathlete organization (Congress?) is moved to "do something", they might require a triathlete "license" which includes a doctor's signature (annually) and possibly a USAT coach signature verifying this person has completed a similar length and temperature OWS.

2. I agree time trial starts are less stressful.  Once a family of a victim sues USAT for a large settlement, I can imagine USAT dictating all events will be TT starts.  Everyone is wearing a timing chip anyway, it wouldn't be that hard to add a mat at the start line.

3. Another option: one must have completed a previous event of the same distance in the Novice class, before one is allowed to compete in an age group class.  And all novice class starts will be TT start.  The idea being, true beginners would have to gain some experience before getting in the full contact scrum.

4. Another option: mandatory easy pace swim warm-up.  What if? there was a rule that each wave must enter the water 10 minutes before their start time and swim out 100 meters and back, as slowly as you want, but you couldn't enter the start line area until you finish the 200 meter warm up.  Might this identify folks with chest pains, or at least get them gradually warmed up, so they don't have a heart attack?  I know this sounds weird, but if it was organized, and everyone was required to do it, you would do it without complaining, right?

5. Finally, race directors could help triathletes self-seed better.  Make announcements and have signs on the beach: "1:15/100m pace here", "1:30/100m pace here", "1:45/100m pace here", "2:00/100m pace here".  Most triathletes are "rule followers" and most don't like climbing over slower swimmers, nor being climbed over by faster swimmers.  If there were 4 or 5 sub-waves within the wave start, it would reduce the scrum.

The few that I've read about have been experienced triathletes.  Often the deceased is described as fit/good shape/experienced by others.  Which seems counter to what most people think about who should be having the problems.

I'm glad to see the "warm-up before swimming" discussion.  I don't remember much of that back when I did a few triathlons back in college (24+ years ago).  My swimming at the pool starts with short warm-up laps.  They're _really_ short since I'm just back to triathlons (first in September), but it's the warm-up purpose and that will vary by person.  As my swimming improves my warm-ups will get longer.

I think people (especially beginners) need to be choosy and pick races that match their fitness ability.  Simple responsibility and accountability.  I'm re-starting with a Sprint with a short swim (400m) in a lake (no waves) and a TT start.  I wouldn't mind the bike being longer, but I really want to start with a swim that's not going to be a challenge.  It shouldn't be a question of "can I finish", but rather "how long will it take me to finish".

I'm glad to see more people getting into fitness events, but shocked to see hour plus times for a 5K run.  I saw several 1:20 times in a run we did a few weeks ago.  A basic 3 mph walk would cover 5K in 1:02.  And I'm no speed demon; I just did my best time in a 5K this past weekend at 26:04.  So, I certainly don't think you have to be great at a sport to participate, but you do need to be able to do it at a safe level.